Brexit

[4est_4est_Gump]

Well, let's start with the British Isles, there is still sentiment in Scotland that a separation would be a good thing. In Spain, you have the Basques, in the Middle-East and North Africa, you have an attempt at breaking up former countries along more tribal lines. That's the sort of thing I allude to.

Globalization among progressive/socialist lines, is now seen for what it is and is causing fear.

We all see what happens, if you are corrupt, you can simply buy your way into power. At the top of that pyramid here is Mrs. Clinton who has been using the Foundation to launder bribe money and enrich herself.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

PS - The progs are losing their collective mind. They cannot bring themselves to realize that they were the cause of the Leave vote, so they are going to the old standard, Xenophobia.

 

[Sean]

PS - The progs are losing their collective mind. They cannot bring themselves to realize that they were the cause of the Leave vote, so they are going to the old standard, Xenophobia.

Yeah, I wonder why? Maybe because every single Leave voter, when asked why, has said immigration, foreigners, muslims. Or maybe it's because the entire Leave campaign for the last few weeks has been "Project Hate"?

https://harrypaterson.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/breaking-point.jpg?w=640&h=470

 

[butters]

Yeah, I wonder why? Maybe because every single Leave voter, when asked why, has said immigration, foreigners, muslims. Or maybe it's because the entire Leave campaign for the last few weeks has been "Project Hate"?

https://harrypaterson.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/breaking-point.jpg?w=640&h=470

nazi propaganda poster

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClETtGHWAAAe0la.jpg

 

[hashtag45]

You have an attempt at breaking up former countries along more tribal lines. That's the sort of thing I allude to.

Globalization among progressive/socialist lines, is now seen for what it is and is causing fear.

We all see what happens, if you are corrupt, you can simply buy your way into power. At the top of that pyramid here is Mrs. Clinton who has been using the Foundation to launder bribe money and enrich herself.

Come to think of it:

There has been an odd process going on in Europe over the last few decades, where ethnical differences have been hyped up leading to the breakup of certain countries. Making them less powerful.

On the other hand, the EU was sold as achieving the opposite of that : unifying Europeans. (which would have been cool in theory, if the leaders weren't so corrupt)

BOTH moves heavily financed and supported by Elites, including americans.
Separate things? Or just part of a longer term plan of empowering Elites?


Is that what you were getting at? Or am I getting off the rails?

 

[Sean]

nazi propaganda poster

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClETtGHWAAAe0la.jpg

Yep. But AJ says there was no racism involved in the Leave campaign. So what do we know?

 

[butters]

Yep. But AJ says there was no racism involved in the Leave campaign. So what do we know?

just call me jon snow

 

[oggbashan]

Yeah, I wonder why? Maybe because every single Leave voter, when asked why, has said immigration, foreigners, muslims. Or maybe it's because the entire Leave campaign for the last few weeks has been "Project Hate"?

...

That isn't true. the UKIP campaign was not part of the official Leave campaign. The Remain campaign has been Project Fear. The Remain leaders promised economic disaster and reduced house prices if we voted to Leave. Thos who can't afford houses at present were delighted with the prospect of lower housing costs.

Some of those wanting to vote Leave were voting against the EU as an institution, not against foreigners or Europe. They were also worried that the unrestricted immigration was causing chaos in housing, schools and the health service.

 

[Sean]

That isn't true. the UKIP campaign was not part of the official Leave campaign. The Remain campaign has been Project Fear. The Remain leaders promised economic disaster and reduced house prices if we voted to Leave. Thos who can't afford houses at present were delighted with the prospect of lower housing costs.

Some of those wanting to vote Leave were voting against the EU as an institution, not against foreigners or Europe. They were also worried that the unrestricted immigration was causing chaos in housing, schools and the health service.

Really? Go look at the interviews the beeb were doing across the country yesterday.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Come to think of it:

There has been an odd process going on in Europe over the last few decades, where ethnical differences have been hyped up leading to the breakup of certain countries. Making them less powerful.

On the other hand, the EU was sold as achieving the opposite of that : unifying Europeans. (which would have been cool in theory, if the leaders weren't so corrupt)

BOTH moves heavily financed and supported by Elites, including americans.
Separate things? Or just part of a longer term plan of empowering Elites?


Is that what you were getting at? Or am I getting off the rails?

Yes, basically. People will accept being ruled from afar as long as the rule does not interfere with their culture and customs. The problem has become with the elites no longer being content to manage the affairs of the nation-state, but now considers it of paramount importance to manage the affairs of our communities and households.

 

[oggbashan]

Really? Go look at the interviews the beeb were doing across the country yesterday.

I did, and interviews by other news channels.

The Russian one was weird...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Brexit and the End of International Progressive Inevitability
Whose side is history on now?
By David French, NRO
http://www.nationalreview.com/node/437147/print

I’m old enough to remember when history had a side. History, you see, had chosen to progress toward an international order that de-emphasized international sovereignty, elevated a bureaucratic and technocratic elite, and sought to solve international conflict through a combination of moral and economic pressure. Nations caused wars, so nationalism (and even patriotism) had to be set aside. Democracy unleashed bigotry, so “the people” mattered mainly when they agreed with the elite.

It was a system that worked remarkably well for the international upper class. Men and women dedicated to commerce enjoyed unprecedented access to international markets. Activists dedicated to social justice could engineer their societies without ever truly facing the accountability of the ballot box. The logic of the system was self-proving. It would triumph through the sheer force of its virtue.

Unable to grasp the extent to which the new international order had endured and prospered not so much through its self-evident goodness but through the protection of American arms, it proved completely incapable of meeting the challenge when America chose to retreat. Vladimir Putin wanted no part of a system that sidelined Russia and viewed it as just one more economic and bureaucratic entity in a global superstate and decided to exert raw power to shape the world. He put boots on the ground in Crimea, and he dared the world to move him. He exerted his will in Syria, and he dared the world to stop him.

...

Is it any wonder that citizens of one of the greatest and strongest nations in human history would recoil from an international order that was proving mainly that it could enrich an elite without seeming to lift a finger to preserve the nation’s core values and traditions — the very things that had made it great and strong? Is it any wonder that citizens of other great countries are —wondering what loyalty they owe to that same elite?

...

Across the ocean, America faces its own crisis. Our technocratic elite has constructed its own self-serving system — one that mirrors the very system that Britain rejected yesterday. Our politics are more uncertain and chaotic than at any time in decades. We can’t predict what will happen. But one thing I do know — history never truly had a “side.” Instead, it is the story of action and reaction, and no outcome is inevitable.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Rupert Darwall writes:

"Cameron and the Remain campaign made a final mistake. At one point, Cameron’s pollster tweeted that virtually every intelligent person thought leaving the EU a stupid idea. After the horrible murder of the Labour MP Jo Cox, “Stronger In” became “Kinder In.” The implication was that people concerned about immigration or just not happy being governed from Brussels were narrow-minded, xenophobic, or worse.

"When you try to delegitimize somebody’s vote, you don’t change his mind, only his willingness to talk about it. The effect was to understate Leave in the polls. Of the nine final polls, seven showed Remain in the lead, with Remain’s pollster showing a ten-point lead. The same effect was present in exit polls commissioned by hedge funds, which led to Brexit campaigners prematurely conceding the result of the referendum and to markets confidently pricing in a Remain win. There was a spiral of silence at work which deceived the Remain camp about where it stood and the campaign it should have fought."

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...eave-wins-david-cameron-resigns-eu-referendum

 

[butters]

Really? Go look at the interviews the beeb were doing across the country yesterday.

like everything, there will be those who voted all manner of reasons. i don't think it's fair to say all those voting leave did so for racist reasons. when jobs are scarce and resources stretched to breaking point, you know as well as i that the majority will blame the easiest targets, no matter how wrong they might be to do so. it's too common to hear 'they come over here, go straight on benefits, won't work, get houses from the council when my kid can't ...' when, in the next breath it's 'they're taking all the jobs' and these same people are selling their once-upon-a-time council houses for enormous prices to indonesian/asian/carribbean families and using cheap polish labour to tidy their gardens and build extensions.

coming from dagenham, i was one of the few who voted remain - and just about everyone i know from here that voted leave did so because of all the dark skins/foreign languages in the area. oddly enough, they didn't seem to notice the paler skinned immigrants.... the exceptions were few and far between. to be concerned about stretched resources isn't the same as being racist, but racism is alive, well, and celebrated here.

 

[hashtag45]

Rupert Darwall writes:

"Cameron and the Remain campaign made a final mistake. At one point, Cameron’s pollster tweeted that virtually every intelligent person thought leaving the EU a stupid idea. After the horrible murder of the Labour MP Jo Cox, “Stronger In” became “Kinder In.” The implication was that people concerned about immigration or just not happy being governed from Brussels were narrow-minded, xenophobic, or worse.

"When you try to delegitimize somebody’s vote, you don’t change his mind, only his willingness to talk about it. The effect was to understate Leave in the polls. Of the nine final polls, seven showed Remain in the lead, with Remain’s pollster showing a ten-point lead. The same effect was present in exit polls commissioned by hedge funds, which led to Brexit campaigners prematurely conceding the result of the referendum and to markets confidently pricing in a Remain win. There was a spiral of silence at work which deceived the Remain camp about where it stood and the campaign it should have fought."

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...eave-wins-david-cameron-resigns-eu-referendum

They're so removed from reality that they start to believe that everyone thinks like them.

I, for one, wasn't surprised by the results. And I don't live in Europe let alone the UK + I know very little about politics.
For the simple fact that several Brittish immigrants (pretty decent folks, a lot of them) told me that they were dissatisfied with the current system.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The question now is, is Spain next?

The Euro has slashed their ability to export and is an impoverishing condition, going back to their Peso would help correct their imbalance of trade. The same goes for a lot of the smaller countries under the Euro.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I have to admit I am very disappointed.

Over 24 hours since the Brexit vote, and neither 4est_4est_Trump or Ishmael have found a way to spin this as President Obama's fault.

You're slipping, guys.

 

[hashtag45]

The question now is, is Spain next?

The Euro has slashed their ability to export and is an impoverishing condition, going back to their Peso would help correct their imbalance of trade. The same goes for a lot of the smaller countries under the Euro.

Wouldn't membership to the EU (now that UK has decided to leave) make it easier to re-claim Gibraltar?

 

[miles]

Rupert Darwall writes:

"Cameron and the Remain campaign made a final mistake. At one point, Cameron’s pollster tweeted that virtually every intelligent person thought leaving the EU a stupid idea. After the horrible murder of the Labour MP Jo Cox, “Stronger In” became “Kinder In.” The implication was that people concerned about immigration or just not happy being governed from Brussels were narrow-minded, xenophobic, or worse.

]

What an incredibly arrogant and snotty thing to say. But then again it's par for the course. Leftists think anyone who doesn't share their beliefs are defective. They are the keepers of The Truth, and those who disagree with them must be silenced.

Fascists.

 

[Ishmael]

Funny how "racism" keeps creeping in to the conversation. I was unaware that the Pols, Czechs, etc. were a race apart from the English. Do they also feel that way about the Scots, Irish, and Welsh?

Xenophobe would most likely be a better choice if that were what was really going on but I suspect it's far more complicated than that.

Hearkening back to my conversations with p-p-man, it always struck me as a rather futile idea to try to create a "United States of Europe." From an economic standpoint it made sense but the cultural, language, and legal system obstacles always seemed to me to be a bridge a little too far to actually make happen.

The former Soviet Unions attempt to create (and Russia's new efforts to re-create same) a similar entity in Eastern Europe should have been a 'tell.' The 40 years of the Soviet Unions heavy handed, bureaucratic attempts to do so only made the member states all the more eager to get the hell out of the arrangement. Add to that the LONG history of animosity and distrust between the various European nations and you have a ready made prescription for failure.

Ishmael

 

[RobDownSouth]

What an incredibly arrogant and snotty thing to say. But then again it's par for the course. Leftists think anyone who doesn't share their beliefs are defective. They are the keepers of The Truth, and those who disagree with them must be silenced.

Fascists.

Miles Ben Zonah is playin' the victim again today.

The Judenazi hate hate HATES it when facts intrude on his carefully constructed reality-distortion cocoon.

The simple fact is that the vote demographic clearly showed TWO things:

• The less educated you were, the more likely you were to vote "leave"
• The older you were, the more likely you were to vote "leave"

Seeing that miles ben zonah is both one of the oldest and least educated members of the general board, it's no surprise to find him expressing solidarity with his "leave" brethren.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Boris Johnson has already authorized work on the Chunnel.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClzCI9vXIAAYQei.jpg

 

[butters]

Boris Johnson has already authorized work on the Chunnel.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClzCI9vXIAAYQei.jpg

lololol

 

[ChinaBandit]

Funky Claude was not able to save them this time, he passed away in 2013.

Agreed. could be Swiss time is running out.

 

[hashtag45]

Miles Ben Zonah is playin' the victim again today.

The Judenazi hate hate HATES it when facts intrude on his carefully constructed reality-distortion cocoon.

The simple fact is that the vote demographic clearly showed TWO things:

• 
  
  1.The less educated you were, the more likely you were to vote "leave"[/UR
  
  [*]2.The older you were, the more likely you were to vote "leave"
  

Seeing that miles ben zonah is both one of the oldest and least educated members of the general board, it's no surprise to find him expressing solidarity with his "leave" brethren.

I'm starting to enjoy this.

1.Of course the more educated brits. wouldn't mind staying in the EU, because their jobs are secure:
Regarding high-skilled jobs in the UK
- the usual requirements are that the applicant graduated from a UK university, or at least passed equivalencies exams. Even so, UK graduates are given priority.
- even if the EU decided to wipe the above requirement, any british employer would prefer someone who graduated from an UK university, as opposed to someone who graduated from the University of Azerbaijan.

Whereas a "less educated" Brit. competes with similar foreigners for a job that doesn't require a high level of skills.
- And guess who is sometimes more likely to be employed by the Brittish employer? The person who is less likely to ask for a high salary, or benefits: an immigrant.
So in contrast to the "educated" Brits., they have a lot more to worry about, in terms of competition and job security.

Nothing to do with ignorance or low IQ, as you so galantly implied. (I don't think this one will sit well with the GB liberals of brittish origin Lol)


2.The older generations lived through better times, and know that things can be better. Plus, as ogg pointed out, they had the experience of being lie by politicians, again and again. So they are more discerning.