Radical Islam my asshole....

[Conager]

History shows Gotti and Capone were both convicted. I don't see that it's the FBI's job to disprove things about people. The FBI is still looking for Hoffa? That seems a poor choice of resources.

Did this radical keep mosque tell him to make several visits to a gay club and drink alcohol while he was there? That seems pretty radical.

Which is more likely: He developed this self-loathing from not being able to live up to the religion that he was born into and practiced? ... or because he felt bad because Christians disapprove of his inclinations?

Just because he did not live up to the standards of his stated belief system does not mean he was not a fervent believer.

His final actions and death are those of a true believer. He will be praised and remembered by the most virulent. That, and the attention of the obsessive American press is mostly the point.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

So is a Christian.

You must not know a lot of Christians.

A Christian that does not accept gays is certainly a minority.

 

[richard_daily]

History shows Gotti and Capone were both convicted. I don't see that it's the FBI's job to disprove things about people. The FBI is still looking for Hoffa? That seems a poor choice of resources.

Did this radical keep mosque tell him to make several visits to a gay club and drink alcohol while he was there? That seems pretty radical.

So you don't think that the FBI should be conducting background checks on people for firearms purchases?

Or you don't think that their fuck-ups should be held accountable?

 

[Lancecastor]

Which is more likely: He developed this self-loathing from not being able to live up to the religion that he was born into and practiced? ... or because he felt bad because Christians disapprove of his inclinations?

Just because he did not live up to the standards of his stated belief system does not mean he was not a fervent believer.

His final actions and death are those of a true believer. He will be praised and remembered by the most virulent. That, and the attention of the obsessive American press is mostly the point.

Or maybe he just wanted to kill a bunch of people.

 

[Conager]

Or maybe he just wanted to kill a bunch of people.

To kill anyone, even justifiably comes with an emotional toll for anyone but a stone-cold sociopath.

Islam or not, self-loathing latent or not, he definitely worked his way up to this. He fantasized for months. Watched gore, played first person shooters, likely.

He definitely got off on it.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

So you don't think that the FBI should be conducting background checks on people for firearms purchases?

Or you don't think that their fuck-ups should be held accountable?

ANyone who buys a gin from a licensed dealer whether the purchase is online, at a gun show, or in person has a background check performed.

The Licensed dealer or an employee takes the purchasers ID, SSN, and calls in to an 800 number for NCIC National Crime Information Center, and provides all the information. Then the dealer is either given an approval, told the sale is on hold, or the sale is denied.

If the sale is denied the buyer has committed a felony, yet no one ever gets prosecuted for this.

If it's on hold the FBI has a set period of time to approve or deny the sale.

If the sale is approved the buyer then takes home his new gun after the required (if any) waiting period.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Why can't both be true?

He was a Gay man struggling with his faith and trying not to be gay. He heard the call to action at his Mosque and targeted the gay club that he was known to frequent to kill those who befriended him.

Remember the Muslim couple in California who shot up their co workers at a baby shower. Everyone loved tham at work and they seemed to like everyone.

Only one person has directly answered your question so far. Which implies that the reason both can't be true is that GB pundits are too wrapped up in their own bias inspired speculations to consider other possibilities.

It shouldn't be at all hard to imagine the rage and turmoil boiling within someone whose sexual predilection is at war with their religious beliefs. (see heterosexual single Christians)

I fully expect the cumulative blind eye to your suggestion to continue throughout the day.

 

[KUJACK]

Follow this

Not all muslims are jihadists, but all jihadists are muslims.
Even if you don't want war, sometimes war wants you.
Bring back the Crusades!!

 

[richard_daily]

ANyone who buys a gin from a licensed dealer whether the purchase is online, at a gun show, or in person has a background check performed.

The Licensed dealer or an employee takes the purchasers ID, SSN, and calls in to an 800 number for NCIC National Crime Information Center, and provides all the information. Then the dealer is either given an approval, told the sale is on hold, or the sale is denied.

If the sale is denied the buyer has committed a felony, yet no one ever gets prosecuted for this.

If it's on hold the FBI has a set period of time to approve or deny the sale.

If the sale is approved the buyer then takes home his new gun after the required (if any) waiting period.

I am aware of that information, but thanks for posting it for the people who don't.

The FBI did not place a hold or deny the sale of guns in this case, yet they routinely do so.

They also granted the murderer a armed guard license, which requires a separate set of background checks.

The FBI fucked up.

 

[Conager]

I am aware of that information, but thanks for posting it for the people who don't.

The FBI did not place a hold or deny the sale of guns in this case, yet they routinely do so.

They also granted the murderer a armed guard license, which requires a separate set of background checks.

The FBI fucked up.

I suspect the gun purchase "background check" is a cursory records check. Not a felon? Approved

I have no idea what is entailed in a application for a security guard license in the state of Florida. The only time the FBI would get involved in something like that would be to confirm or deny that they have those particular prints on file associated with a felon.

I've had to submit my prints three different times for 3 different licenses in the state of Arizona and each time the FBI just simply issues an Ok in that there are no wants, warrants, or crimes associated with those fingerprints in NCIS.

I didn't get around to needing explosives clearance at the mine, but I would hope, but not assume it involved some interviews.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

It's simply not mutually exclusive.

At its core Islam is homophobic, sexist, and racist.

Not in its extreme form, in its core form.

It becomes extreme when the followers act on these beliefs.

A Muslim that accepts gays, women as equals, other religions and races is a minority.

So of course a kid that is gay, growing up in a environment that is so hateful to gays is going to be mentally disturbed.

You can say the same thing of anyone capable of cutting someone's head off, buring a woman up to her neck and stoning her, and on and on and on....

While these are the acts of Islamic terriosts they are also mentally disturbed acts. This shit is simply against human nature.

Only one person has directly answered your question so far. Which implies that the reason both can't be true is that GB pundits are too wrapped up in their own bias inspired speculations to consider other possibilities.

It shouldn't be at all hard to imagine the rage and turmoil boiling within someone whose sexual predilection is at war with their religious beliefs. (see heterosexual single Christians)

I fully expect the cumulative blind eye to your suggestion to continue throughout the day.

* Cough cough

 

[Lancecastor]

6 pages and still no pics of radical muslims in Betty's ass.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?40,file=156710,filename=eesh.jpg

 

[Killswitch1]

1. The 911 call where he stated he was doing it on behalf of Isis.
2. The fact Isis claimed responsibility.
3. The fact he traveled to Saudi Arabia twice in the last few years while making around $9-$10 an hour which is the going rate in Florida for an Armed security guard.
4. The fact he was a member of the Mosque run by ex con Robertson which was the same Mosque that the US suicide bomber in Syria was a member of.
5. The fact he was taking classes at said Mosque with ex con and extremist Robertson who called on US Muslims to attack gays during Ramadan.

But no reason to think this was anything other than a nutjob.

The fact that the ISIL claim of responsability was akin to "Hey...who is this dude using our name...IDK but thanks man!"

The fact that the guy was a fag in the closet and couldn't reconcile that with his strict religion.

But lets all go full blown fuck islam and this is about religions.

keep your fucking eyes on the ball.

Id love to play three card monte with you people.

 

[Killswitch1]

I hate to say this, but I'm kinda with Killy on this.

My take is that he likely got pissed off when the target of his affection spurned him on one of his recent numerous visits that spanned over many years. So being the mentally unstable person prone to violence he had previously shown himself to be, he decided to go all jihadi on the whole club for his revenge. Go down in a blaze of glory for a "worthy cause". He likely saw it as a great epitaph compared to the alternative.

Thank you,

And to take it a step further I hear his wife dropped him off at that club so he could cruise several times and now she is telling the FBI that Disney Springs (Formerley Downtown Disney) was also a target of some sorts.....

His wife is involved in this and I suspect she will be arrested soon enough and I believe her words are also a smokescreen.

I totally believe this is nothing more than a closeted gay/bi dude flippin his lid and throwing Isil in for good measure.

What bothers me is not too many other people are seeing it this way.

And what does the FBI know that we dont.

 

[Killswitch1]

To add to my first post:

Actually, considering he didn't proclaim his ISIS motivation until roughly 20 minutes after everything started, I suspect his original intent wasn't to take out the whole club, but a select group he had been involved with. Once that didn't work out and he ended up trapped, he just decided to take everyone out along with him.

Yeah but the reports are that while there was still a lot of people hidden in the club in bathrooms and every place else he went around and was RE Shooting bodies to make sure they were dead.

That makes no sense to me....At least it has no logic that I am aware of unless what you say is accurate.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

They also granted the murderer a armed guard license, which requires a separate set of background checks.

The FBI fucked up.

WRONG!

The FBI does not issue armed guard licenses. This is handled by each state.

In Florida the DIvision of Licensing falls under the department of Agriculture, which is who approves all applications for secuirty, investigations, reposessions, and CCWs, among others.

In order to work as a security guard you must take a 24 hour class to get the initial class D license, and a 16 hour refresher before you renew the license in two years. You have to submit your fingerprints as well.

To work as armed security, you must take a 28 hour class and pass a range qualification, similar to the one LEOs must pass with each type of firearm you will carry. (Limited to .38 Revolvers, .357 [with .38 ammo] 9mm, and 12ga.)

Then you must submit your finger prints and wait up to three months to get the license. This class also meets the state requirements for a CCW so everyone who gets their G license also gets the W license, because they only pay one $42.00 fee for fingerprints/background check if they apply for both.

I know many people who have had licenses denied for stupid reasons. Florida is very strict with these licenses and if there was an active investigation or he was on a watch list he would not have gotten either license.

I had a former employee lose his license because he failed to turn in his uniforms within 3 days of quitting.

I know the system because I used to have my D, G, DI (Security Instructor), CC (PI Intern), and MB (Security Agency Manager) Licenses. I let them all lapse when I left the industry. I am working on getting my K (Firearm instructor) license now.

Florida runs the background checks not only through the FBI database but all 50 states and territories data bases as well since their are some misdemeanors that bar you from getting a license but those aren't reported to the FBI.

While I agree the FBI dropped the ball you can't blame them for his having a license.

Oh and Florida does have a waiting period for handguns, which is waived for anyone with a W license.

 

[pete]

To add to my first post:

Actually, considering he didn't proclaim his ISIS motivation until roughly 20 minutes after everything started, I suspect his original intent wasn't to take out the whole club, but a select group he had been involved with. Once that didn't work out and he ended up trapped, he just decided to take everyone out along with him.

actually, if you think about it, it would have been pretty dumb for him to declare allegiance to isis too long before he carried out his actions, yeah?
that really would have drawn the attention of the feds, and maybe even prevented him from acting

 

[Pookie]

Thank you,

And to take it a step further I hear his wife dropped him off at that club so he could cruise several times and now she is telling the FBI that Disney Springs (Formerley Downtown Disney) was also a target of some sorts.....

His wife is involved in this and I suspect she will be arrested soon enough and I believe her words are also a smokescreen.

I totally believe this is nothing more than a closeted gay/bi dude flippin his lid and throwing Isil in for good measure.

What bothers me is not too many other people are seeing it this way.

And what does the FBI know that we dont.

From the things other patrons are saying to the press, he was one of them. He was comfortable at the club. He'd been going to Pulse for years. He had been to other gay clubs in Florida as well. He was viewed as something of a regular to some. He was even attempting to hook up with others using Grindr and other gay dating apps.

For him to decide to go batshit jihadi had to be prompted by something, and it likely wasn't something he'd been hearing at mosques, etc. for years about the "bad homos". My guess is something along the lines of a being spurned by someone he was crushing on.

There is also the possibility that someone in his life was threatening to out him. Knowing how his family and some of his Muslim friends would react, that type of threat could've prompted this as well. Become a jihadist as cover for the extreme embarrassment of being outed as gay in a circle of friends and family that would likely disown him or at least say he shamed them, at least in his mind.

 

[Pookie]

actually, if you think about it, it would have been pretty dumb for him to declare allegiance to isis too long before he carried out his actions, yeah?
that really would have drawn the attention of the feds, and maybe even prevented him from acting

Agreed. But he doesn't come across as all that bright anyway.

He had claimed "ISIS" to coworkers, etc. a couple of times in the past, leading to his being looked at by the Feds. Those times turned out to be just him using it in the spur of the moment as well.

 

[Pookie]

Yeah but the reports are that while there was still a lot of people hidden in the club in bathrooms and every place else he went around and was RE Shooting bodies to make sure they were dead.

That makes no sense to me....At least it has no logic that I am aware of unless what you say is accurate.

It's been mentioned he had a serious anger problem. His ex even said he did steroids. Once he got into a killing mode, who knows what was going on in his head. If you're gonna be a jihadist, go out with a big body count or something.

 

[Killswitch1]

From the things other patrons are saying to the press, he was one of them. He was comfortable at the club. He'd been going to Pulse for years. He had been to other gay clubs in Florida as well. He was viewed as something of a regular to some. He was even attempting to hook up with others using Grindr and other gay dating apps.

For him to decide to go batshit jihadi had to be prompted by something, and it likely wasn't something he'd been hearing at mosques, etc. for years about the "bad homos". My guess is something along the lines of a being spurned by someone he was crushing on.

There is also the possibility that someone in his life was threatening to out him. Knowing how his family and some of his Muslim friends would react, that type of threat could've prompted this as well. Become a jihadist as cover for the extreme embarrassment of being outed as gay in a circle of friends and family that would likely disown him or at least say he shamed them, at least in his mind.

His wife knew he was gay. People knew.

If he was Japanese Id say he did this to save face.

 

[butters]

they reach for the gun as an easy option
they reach for religion as the easy excuse

'they' being any cowardly murdering bastard claiming they're shooting the fuck out of people in the name of a religious belief

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Agreed. But he doesn't come across as all that bright anyway.

He had claimed "ISIS" to coworkers, etc. a couple of times in the past, leading to his being looked at by the Feds. Those times turned out to be just him using it in the spur of the moment as well.

He was a terrorist. Being gay and not being accepted by his culture/Islam may have drove him to terrorism, but it does not change what he was. Just helps explains why he was....

Anyone who thinks it is mutually exclusive is simply trying to push a political agenda....

"FBI Director James Comey told reporters Monday a witness had identified Mateen to the FBI during their investigation of Abu-Salha and claimed Mateen was watching videos from the American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, an Al Qaeda terrorist targeted for death by the CIA in 2011.

Reading Awlaki sermons and watching his videos are among the most common and obvious red flags for homegrown terrorism. This is what San Bernardino shooters Tashfeen Malik and Syed Farook were watching before they killed 14 people in December. Both of the Boston Marathon bombers studied the cleric's radical teachings before they planted pressure-cooker bombs at the finish line of the race in 2013; Maj. Nidal Hasan exchanged emails with the American cleric before he opened fire at Fort Hood in 2009"

 

[Ldy_Sea]

I suspect the gun purchase "background check" is a cursory records check. Not a felon? Approved

Wrong. The check is not cursory, it goes through NCIC which contains the criminal records of everyone who is convicted of a felony, any violent misdemeanor, has an order of protection against them, or any other legal action that would disqualify them from owning firearms.

That being said the system is not perfect. People enter the data and errors are made all the time. Sometimes information is not sent to the FBI on a timely manner. Other times people with similar names are confused in the system and denied a purchase.