Should Honest Feedback Be A Hate Crime?

[NOIRTRASH]

On the news today, its now wrong to speak of STARTING A FAMILY, because plenty of people aren't married. But I digress.

Isnt honest story feedback a hate crime, because its judgmental.

 

[Man4Strapon]

Honest feedback is the best kind but negative feedback should never be posted anonymously.
If one is going to criticize an author's work, they should have the balls to identify themselves so that the author can read their literary brilliance.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

#badwritersmatter Kill The Haters!!!

 

[sr71plt]

Unsolicited, critical comment on a site like this comes close to being a hate crime, yes.

 

[Serafina1210]

No: "Your story sux."

Yes: "Die, cunt!"

 

[legerdemer]

Imho

Bullshit. If you've* got ego enough to post a story and be ready for adulation by the readers, you should have skin thick enough to take criticism, use the best of it and deep-six the useless bits.

If you've got the creativity, judgment and gumption necessary to write, surely you've got the gumption to suck it up on some feedback, even the moronic kind. If you're too sensitive and can't tell the morons from the rest, you've got no business posting on the Internet.

*you = the generic writer

 

[lovecraft68]

Bullshit. If you've* got ego enough to post a story and be ready for adulation by the readers, you should have skin thick enough to take criticism, use the best of it and deep-six the useless bits.

If you've got the creativity, judgment and gumption necessary to write, surely you've got the gumption to suck it up on some feedback, even the moronic kind. If you're too sensitive and can't tell the morons from the rest, you've got no business posting on the Internet.

*you = the generic writer

One would think, but we've all seen the butt hurt threads here about the mean trolls.

 

[lovecraft68]

Unsolicited, critical comment on a site like this comes close to being a hate crime, yes.

If your comments are open you are inviting critique of all types.

If you don't want any because you feel no one here is qualified to give it, shut your comments off, or deal with the result of allowing them.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Unsolicited, critical comment on a site like this comes close to being a hate crime, yes.

I'd like to keep "hate crime" for actual crimes that involve actual threat. "Fuck gays", "Christians sux!", "burn the nigga" et al., say absolutely nothing about the targeted group and way, WAY too much about the speaker. It's all the more pitiable when the speaker is anonymous; ignorance and cowardice is a sad mix. Pat the loser on the head is my advice, but don't dignify him by calling his noise a hate crime. That gives it and him too much credit; and being a moron is its own punishment anyway.

That said, it's a pity there's no way to genuinely say "your writing sucks" here. Comments get deleted, 1 votes get swept. Best you can do in the face of garbage is shrug and move on.

 

[lovecraft68]

That said, it's a pity there's no way to genuinely say "your writing sucks" here. Comments get deleted, 1 votes get swept. Best you can do in the face of garbage is shrug and move on.

You can send a private feedback, but odds are they'll delete it like they will a comment.

 

[legerdemer]

As someone giving feedback, I give feedback that I hope is useful. If the author takes it or not, that's their business.

As an author, I have not deleted any comment or feedback received in any way - while I might be bummed for a bit that I didn't meet my goal, I take serious suggestions the way they were given - if someone took the time to comment and make a suggestion, I consider their input and am courteous enough to thank them for thinking about my work.

 

[sr71plt]

If your comments are open you are inviting critique of all types.

No I'm not. Don't try to speak for me. There are very few people using this site who are qualified to give critical comment and I don't agree that you are asking for negative comment simply by posting stories here. And I go back to there are very few people using this site who are qualified to give critical comment. Most of those who do give it are just trying to puff themselves up. I won't give critical comment unless the author specifically asks for it, and if she/he doesn't ask for it and you give it, I will applaud them for telling you to take a long walk on a short pier.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

As an author, I have not deleted any comment or feedback received in any way - while I might be bummed for a bit that I didn't meet my goal, I take serious suggestions the way they were given - if someone took the time to comment and make a suggestion, I consider their input and am courteous enough to thank them for thinking about my work.

I've deleted a handful. At one point someone latched on to me and starting leaving comments that, while not really critical of the writing or me, were just sort of sneeringly weird. Accused two manifestly straight characters of being gay, that sort of thing. (I tend to write very straight males, almost stereotypically gruff, demanding... it was a really oddball interpretation.) I decided I was being flirted with in a really odd way, and started deleting.

Some comments here try to tell you show you should have done your plot. My "The Captured Princess" really brought these folk out of the woodwork... apparently if you write a princess, she better win against all odds and bite the cock off the male patriarchy to boot. Just surviving a horrible ordeal and escaping with sanity intact is NOT good enough, and I got told that in no uncertain terms. I cleaned up a couple of those remarks, as they were hostile.

I've given very little feedback; usually I'm only moved to if I run across a story that looked promising but broke down because of some fixable flaw.

 

[lovecraft68]

No I'm not. Don't try to speak for me. There are very few people using this site who are qualified to give critical comment and I don't agree that you are asking for negative comment simply by posting stories here. And I go back to there are very few people using this site who are qualified to give critical comment. Most of those who do give it are just trying to puff themselves up.[/B] I won't give critical comment unless the author specifically asks for it, and if she/he doesn't ask for it and you give it, I will applaud them for telling you to take a long walk on a short pier.

Sounds like you are trying to speak for everyone. How do you know who is qualified to do what? You say this all the time and its pure arrogance because of course you assume your critical comment is 'qualified.'

Point is if you don't want critique of any kind then you shut your comments off. There are people here who have. But yours are open so you have no cause to complain when those pesky vigilantes say "You suck' or "I loved it"

When a reader sees they can comment their assumption is the author is looking for some remarks on their story.

So if you truly feel feedback here is nothing but unqualified unsolicited vigilante crap, then prove it and shut off your comments.

But if you choose to keep them open then, stop complaining about it and stop telling everyone else here that every comment they get is meaningless because, yeah, that is very supportive.

 

[Serafina1210]

OP's question was "Isnt honest story feedback a hate crime, because its judgmental." The question itself is a troll: no one regards any honest judgment of a story as a "hate crime."

Yes, lots of Lit readers lack sophistication: few of them will ever be invited to contribute to the New York Review of Books. But I like a reaction from a reader who's read through and cares enough to leave a response, whether that's positive or negative. Looking through the comments on my LW stories, I see lots of viciousness, but I've left it because it was heartfelt.

No one commits a hate crime by leaving a comment--not here, anyway, where we're all anonymous.

But trolls come closest to it. I get repeated visits from a troll who's probably known to a lot of people here. This person goes to the end of a story, reads a little on the last page, and leaves a trolling comment based on that. Trolls have different styles and techniques, but what they have in common is that their trollery is aimed at the author, not the story. In that sense it's not an "honest response," so not responsive to the OP's question. I suspect (but can't prove, or ain't gonna take the trouble) that some trolls aim their anger especially at women.

If so, what they're doing is a little like a hate crime. Call it a hate misdemeanor.

 

[sr71plt]

Obviously we disagree. I presume you don't do critical commenting on other author's stories, though. I haven't heard you have. I haven't. They have to ask for comment and I have to be in the mood to provide it. I'm not here to comment on the works of others.

 

[legerdemer]

I'd like to keep "hate crime" for actual crimes that involve actual threat. "Fuck gays", "Christians sux!", "burn the nigga" et al., say absolutely nothing about the targeted group and way, WAY too much about the speaker. ...

OP's question was "Isnt honest story feedback a hate crime, because its judgmental." The question itself is a troll: no one regards any honest judgment of a story as a "hate crime."
....
... I suspect (but can't prove, or ain't gonna take the trouble) that some trolls aim their anger especially at women.

If so, what they're doing is a little like a hate crime. Call it a hate misdemeanor.

You are both right about the misuse of "hate crime". Thanks to both of you for pointing this out.

In fact, grammar Nazi fits into that same category of using an over-the-top term and demeaning its appropriate use. But I am as guilty as the next person of using and overusing it (not to mention I am a "grammar nazi" myself - what's a better alternative term to use when laughing at myself ?).

 

[Serafina1210]

Obviously we disagree. I presume you don't do critical commenting on other author's stories, though. I haven't heard you have. I haven't. They have to ask for comment and I have to be in the mood to provide it. I'm not here to comment on the works of others.

Talking to me? If so, I don't think we disagree on much. I agree that most Lit readers are unsophisticated. I'm just saying (our only disagreement, I think) that I like getting comments from unsophisticated readers--as long as they've actually read.

 

[sr71plt]

Talking to me? If so, I don't think we disagree on much. I agree that most Lit readers are unsophisticated. I'm just saying (our only disagreement, I think) that I like getting comments from unsophisticated readers--as long as they've actually read.

No. I was responding to LC--apparently while you were posting.

 

[lovecraft68]

Obviously we disagree. I presume you don't do critical commenting on other author's stories, though. I haven't heard you have. I haven't. They have to ask for comment and I have to be in the mood to provide it. I'm not here to comment on the works of others.

I agree we disagree on the general principles of comments.

Like you, I don't read a lot here. When I do read a story I comment. My public comments are general, liked this, wasn't crazy about this, etc...I'm not overly gushing nor am I abusive, I give my opinion.

On occasions the person will reach out to me via feedback and ask for more details I'll give those in that scenario.

I it 'critical' maybe yes, maybe no.

Where I fundamentally disagree with you is people don't have to be qualified to tell someone they liked/didn't like a story and mention why.

Where writers who are thin skinned go wrong is taking it all as gospel when it reality what all this is is opinion. A story I rave over you might think sucks. What does that mean? It means I liked it you didn't case closed.

I put the onus on the writer when the get upset at comments and take them personally.

 

[sr71plt]

Did I mention that I think there are very few Literotica users with the expertise to be giving critical advice?

 

[legerdemer]

I understand your point, Pilot, but I disagree with you and agree with LC in this case.

A story here is no different than a bottle of wine or a restaurant meal, and the person who eats and drinks has a perfectly reasonably right to express their like or dislike for the meal or the wine. And there's no reason why the opinion of the eater or the drinker isn't valid. By selling the wine and cooking the meal, the vintner and the chef invite critique. How is that at all different from the writer here?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I understand your point, Pilot, but I disagree with you and agree with LC in this case.

A story here is no different than a bottle of wine or a restaurant meal, and the person who eats and drinks has a perfectly reasonably right to express their like or dislike for the meal or the wine. And there's no reason why the opinion of the eater or the drinker isn't valid. By selling the wine and cooking the meal, the vintner and the chef invite critique. How is that at all different from the writer here?

Like yesterday my wife grilled me a big steak. It was almost too salty to eat. She asked how it was. I said, TOO SALTY. She doesn't take feedback graciously, so I anticipated trouble. But it came out she hadn't salted the meat at all, and we suspect the grocery store is the culprit, to preserve the meat. Chains are infamous for soaking meat in bleach etc, to keep it around. Wife learned she needs to shop elsewhere. But the steak was tender and tasty and cooked to perfection.

My grandson just completed his freshman year of college. His grades were A's and B's, and he qualified for the sophomore year. He has a full ride scholarship based on grades and sports. He's a baseball pitcher. His high school team sucked but he's so good he shutout some superlative opponents when he pitched. And his talent attracted some MLB stars to watch him. Ball players with World Series rings. They got him the baseball scholarship. They recognize potential. They don't do participation trophies. MLB doesn't do PC bullshit, and many of the tough critics are black and Hispanic. If my grandson can put his 100mph fastball where it oughta be he may earn a spot on the Yankees farm team.

 

[sr71plt]

I understand your point, Pilot, but I disagree with you and agree with LC in this case.

A story here is no different than a bottle of wine or a restaurant meal, and the person who eats and drinks has a perfectly reasonably right to express their like or dislike for the meal or the wine. And there's no reason why the opinion of the eater or the drinker isn't valid. By selling the wine and cooking the meal, the vintner and the chef invite critique. How is that at all different from the writer here?

You paid for the bottle of wine and restaurant meal, so not the same thing at all.

There are writers who come here just to share what they've written and to connect on a particular fetish or erotic feeling, not to develop their writing at all. The Web site welcomes them and sets the site up to accommodate them. So, I repeat that I think that unless someone specifically asks for feedback (and then, yes, give honest feedback if you but not beyond your ability to give it--so that you don't lead them down the garden path with ignorance yourself), they should be left the hell alone to enjoy using the site for their pleasure.

I also repeat that I believe there are few users of Literotica with the expertise to be giving more than basic constructive advice on writing and those who insist on doing so without having this expertise are more likely than not just trying to puff themselves up and to set themselves up as some sort of writing guru that they aren't (which covers the OP, by the way).

I think it's legitimate to respond to vigilante negative critique with a "fuck off."

 

[sr71plt]

Like yesterday my wife grilled me a big steak. It was almost too salty to eat. She asked how it was. I said, TOO SALTY. She doesn't take feedback graciously, so I anticipated trouble. But it came out she hadn't salted the meat at all, and we suspect the grocery store is the culprit, to preserve the meat. Chains are infamous for soaking meat in bleach etc, to keep it around. Wife learned she needs to shop elsewhere. But the steak was tender and tasty and cooked to perfection.

My grandson just completed his freshman year of college. His grades were A's and B's, and he qualified for the sophomore year. He has a full ride scholarship based on grades and sports. He's a baseball pitcher. His high school team sucked but he's so good he shutout some superlative opponents when he pitched. And his talent attracted some MLB stars to watch him. Ball players with World Series rings. They got him the baseball scholarship. They recognize potential. They don't do participation trophies. MLB doesn't do PC bullshit, and many of the tough critics are black and Hispanic. If my grandson can put his 100mph fastball where it oughta be he may earn a spot on the Yankees farm team.

And this relates to this topic how?