seeking info

[newb2016]

ok, I have known about BDSM for some time now. I am as my username reflects a newbie. I am dating this woman who has fantasies into the lifestyle but only once in blue moon. So as far as getting into the lifestyle I would venture to say her intentions are as that of a admirer. But she divulged that when those instances come about that they are dark, and as she says "strange". As in not knowing when/how to stop and basically beat the shit out of someone (namely me) in a sexual nature. But she never gave any indication to the extremes, I.E. Punching, biting and drawing blood and whatever else she can cook up. She has been sexually assaulted when she was younger and it sounds to me like she has a "revenge fetish" as to what has happened to her but she is using the BDSM scene as a potential cover. I was supportive of her but as I have PTSD she said she was afraid the act would trigger it. To take it past uncomfortable as she says. I told her that I wouldn't shy away from it cause I trust her to not take it too far and end up in the hospital, her response to me was "it has nothing to do with trust". I am kinda lost and I figured this would be a good place to start looking into this. For the simple fact there is a lot of experience and knowledge here. So hit me with what ya think!

 

[SpunThings]

ok, I have known about BDSM for some time now. I am as my username reflects a newbie. I am dating this woman who has fantasies into the lifestyle but only once in blue moon. So as far as getting into the lifestyle I would venture to say her intentions are as that of a admirer. But she divulged that when those instances come about that they are dark, and as she says "strange". As in not knowing when/how to stop and basically beat the shit out of someone (namely me) in a sexual nature. But she never gave any indication to the extremes, I.E. Punching, biting and drawing blood and whatever else she can cook up. She has been sexually assaulted when she was younger and it sounds to me like she has a "revenge fetish" as to what has happened to her but she is using the BDSM scene as a potential cover. I was supportive of her but as I have PTSD she said she was afraid the act would trigger it. To take it past uncomfortable as she says. I told her that I wouldn't shy away from it cause I trust her to not take it too far and end up in the hospital, her response to me was "it has nothing to do with trust". I am kinda lost and I figured this would be a good place to start looking into this. For the simple fact there is a lot of experience and knowledge here. So hit me with what ya think!

First, I do not recommend trying to explain away her fetish through her past trauma unless she herself said that to you. The two things may have nothing to do with eachother. There are people who have similar desires without a history of trauma. I'm not saying it isn't the case, but let her tell you why she desires what she does.

Second, I do not recommend going into this if you can't trust her to maintain some self control. It would be irresponsible of her, in my not so humble opinion, to engage in any play without having a clear set of boundaries for the two of you, and sticking to them. It should not be on you to make sure she stays in line. Like you said, you don't want to be hospitalized.

Third, what do you get out of this? You don't have to tell me, but I wouldn't recommend this if you don't get some kind of fulfillment from it.

I have a bad feeling about this to be honest. You have to decide what level of risk you're willing to take.

 

[newb2016]

That is why i took to this site is to try and understand where she is coming from. She advised i should do some research and find out some information... she tells me that she has "done her research" but she didn't reference any forums such as this or the like but she did give me the address to kink.com. Which i don't think is a good way to do your "research". I was part of a short-lived swinging lifestyle and you are correct as with it a clear set of boundaries would have to be set.
She gets frustrated with me when i do ask about why she desires what she does but i never get a answer. That's why i think it has something to do with her past.. And i don't inquire about it all the time by no means. And when i brought up the trust part she quickly dismissed "trust". I told her that it is a lot for someone to let themselves be put in a situation like that and there has to be trust on both sides so that the Dom knows and can feel the Subs limits and get them just right to the edge without going over.
And she said she has to be in "that kind of mood"...

 

[Blue]

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[newb2016]

You may be right on her comfort level, but the first step is making them known, and the rest is all in good time, maybe. Keep in mind that we have not done this as of yet. Mainly because of her fear of not being able to stop and her being afraid she would physically hurt me. But it really sucks that she says that she has "done her research". I asked her if she was a novice and she said, no. I then asked her if she has ever practiced it because there is a clear and distinct difference, her reply to me was "no". So to answer your "bruised" question that is a no lol.

She was pretty frustrated last time we spoke about it, she said we just won't do it. I told her that i was willing but i don't understand this side of it and i am trying to understand her fantasy. But i don't think she realizes that there are certain criteria that needs to be met first. And i think you may be on the right track of her presumption of BDSM research is a over-exaggerated dungeon porn site. Although I am sure there are some who dig that kind of scene. But I am trying to figure out her extremes and why/what she would like to do when she gets in "her moods"

 

[Blue]

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[SpunThings]

I think she should stay away from it until she's capable of actually talking about it. I agree it may be the pain infliction she's excited about, but I'm only speculating. It can help a lot to read the words of people who have the same desires. I think seeing what she wants to do in a moee normal light will help. There ARE people who desire to be on the receiving end of stuff like that. They are called masochists generally.

Also, I suspect her concerns about losing control are due to never having acted on her desires. It's likely the reality will be much more tame than the fantasy in her head. Still, not a good idea to proceed until she feels like she can maintain self control.

You know it might be a good idea to look into munches. So you both can meet real people who do similar things, and maybe to normalize it a bit.

 

[newb2016]

Its ironic you say that. I am comfortable with her fantasies and i am willing to explore and experiment with it, (i am a very open person). I have attempted to pick her brain so to speak about it but it just seems like since i am asking questions that to her seems like i am trying to justify "killing her fantasy" which i am not. But on the other hand i think she may be living a little bit in her past relationships. She has told me that she hasn't ever dated anyone like me, so i think some of her resilience to talk about it comes from her past. but i got all the time in the world.
I told her that i am willing to explore this with her but like i had stated before there needs to be trust and boundaries. She knows i am a open person, especially when it comes to her. I told her that i am trying to find out information from her because it is her fantasy. And i know that if fantasies are left to well just a fantasy, she may get a hankering to execute the fantasy without me and with someone else. That too is part of my information gathering. I am going out of my way to find out information and what i need to ask or some how coax out it out of her. I am here to support her and experience this life together and not keep a deep fantasy or fantasies to herself but to experience them together. Seems pretty legit to me. I am just a concerned and willing boyfriend who would go to the ends of the earth for her. But i fear she does not see that.

 

[SpunThings]

Also, you can do this play without any authority exchange too. Two equals getting their kicks. Or you can see if she'll let you be in charge of where, and when, and how certain activities play out. Things aren't so rigid as the person doing the inflicting is the dom, and the other person is the sub. Dom sub is just about authority.

 

[Blue]

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[newb2016]

SpunThings - I would agree 100% with you. Which I am until i find out more information. Personally I think she has this thought but when it comes to the nitty gritty i think it would be more "tame" and i don't think she is too terribly comfortable with the idea herself. But i think that as we progress in our relationship we will see the true extent of her fantasy. If a masochist were to weigh in on this that would provide a different prospective. But i have thought about introducing little by little some of that to see how she reacts to doing a certain thing and getting more comfortable about the situation and being able to express herself easier. So she can see i am comfortable with it. Saying and doing are 2 different things. What are the thoughts of that??

 

[SpunThings]

I agree with Consilience. This thread is a good place to start: Why do you like pain?

 

[CutieMouse]

Kink.com isn't "research; kink.com is PORN. Which means paid actors, a crew, a director, an editor, and hours upon hour of film to create that yummy little 15 minute clip of "extreme" stuff.

I don't feel it's necessarily wrong to get an idea of what one is into, through porn (if that's your thing). I DO have a problem with a lover deciding they want to use me for XYZ (even slightly) outside the "norm" sexual/physical activity.... when their only research/prep work has been porn. Then again, I've been known to buy books or accumulate links on various BDSM things I enjoy, give them to a lover and suggest we talk about it over a bottle of wine in a few weeks. (Nerd.)

It sounds to me like she isn't necessarily looking for D/s as much as s&m. She is interested in XYZ activities that are (in her mind, at least) extreme, aggressive, and could hurt you. [Sadism] You're willing to receive XYZ activities - as long as a reasonable expectation of safety can be met. [Masochism]

The acronyms that get thrown around the most in BDSM culture are

Safe, Sane, Consensual (SSC)
Risk Aware Kink (RACK)
Personal Responsibility In Kink (PRIK)

The more edge-play or "out there" the activity, the more important the above becomes, and the more responsible & educated both parties involved are (IMO) ethically obligated to be.

For example, I really enjoy breathplay; choking during sex an be yummy. However, it's not something I do casually, if a lover has never even heard of Jay Wiseman much less read his paranoid rantings about the dangers of it, or has no understanding or respect for how incredibly stupid it is to do (regardless of biochemical reactions, blood oxygen levels, blahblahblah)... dude's hands don't go near my neck. If we get to a point where we can have a nice, long, unsexy, involved conversation about it from an anatomy/safety[safer] standpoint? I'll consider it.

It is totally fine that she wants to play in the deep end of the pool. But that takes maturity and responsibility, because sometimes shit goes bad fast. Terribly not-sexy and boring and stuff, but if she wants it bad enough she'll put on her big girl panties and do something about it.

 

[newb2016]

Consilience - i agree, due to jobs we are not physically together for the time being and i am going to see her next month for about a week and a half. I have full intent to show her my post and this site so she could correctly do research and ask questions for the experienced members here. Both you and SpunThings have provided some insight but the more people that weigh in the better. I would love to see her be extremely comfortable with talking to me about everything that pops into her head without being judged for what she says. This woman has been pretty beaten around the head as far as relationships go. But once again it is all about time. which i i got plenty of.

 

[newb2016]

CutieMouse - That was very helpful which i am a firm believer in crawling around the forums and reading and asking questions! I do agree that porn is NOT a very effective way of "research". I want to do this with her but she has to be willing to have the as you put it "a nice, long, unsexy, involved conversation about it" then i too would be more comfortable with doing it. but no our conversations about the subject haven't even gotten to boundaries yet lol. I mean is this normal to see 2 novices on sites like this but only one doing the leg-work?? To me she seems like she would like to execute it but isn't using her noggin to find out information as to finely tune what it is she is seeking

 

[J_R_Ashunwhy]

CutieMouse - That was very helpful which i am a firm believer in crawling around the forums and reading and asking questions! I do agree that porn is NOT a very effective way of "research". I want to do this with her but she has to be willing to have the as you put it "a nice, long, unsexy, involved conversation about it" then i too would be more comfortable with doing it. but no our conversations about the subject haven't even gotten to boundaries yet lol. I mean is this normal to see 2 novices on sites like this but only one doing the leg-work?? To me she seems like she would like to execute it but isn't using her noggin to find out information as to finely tune what it is she is seeking

Porn itself can be used as an effective start point, but should not be the only 'research' performed. Seeming how you mentioned a specific site, there is a documentary: Kink that dives into Kink.com specifically. The documentary examines Kink.com's directors/crews, models, the amount of prep that is needed for scenes, aftercare, ect. that is not normally shown in the finished porn product itself. The movie looks at the model interview process where limitations, and boundaries are discussed. Interviews with the directors enlighten the audience to the fact that the director will not just call 'cut' to fix the lighting or camera angle, but will call 'cut' for any concerns they have for the models, or to correct a PLYs technique to play safer. (It is available on Netflix if you have it.)
Suggesting something like that for a movie night, may help demonstrate the risk, and safety concerns that are being observed, but not always shown on her favorite site, and may help to open the conversation.

Suggesting to watch some of her favorite porn scenes together, and then asking specific questions about the scene, and then searching into those specifics may also help to open dialog. Remember, there may not be an immediate reason for a 'why' she likes something; that can take a great deal of soul-searching to work out.

It is normal to see one side of a relationship do more research/ask more questions initially, but if it stays one sided, and she continues to treat the idea of trust and safety with the same disrespect, abandon the idea entirely. I would also suggest for you to not continue to try to make up excuses on her behalf. Don't try to give explanations for her, or assume you understand her behaviors/attitudes; that can get you into some serious trouble.

 

[newb2016]

ok, done a little bit more research on the interweb. and I think that my gf is a potential more on the S/M part but unknown to what extent. If a sadist or masochist could weigh in that would be a good thing. I mean granted i like some of the stuff that a sadist would do, and i would like to do too. but getting her to open up is the tricky part lol. is it fairly common to wear both hats as far as the BDSM realm goes??? I want us to have a healthy and fun sex life and to be on the same page as each other.

 

[newb2016]

J_R_Ashunwhy - and that is why i am here asking the questions and trying to find out information. She did suggest that we could watch it together and that would seem like a good opportunity to find things out.

I am in total agreement that if trust and safety isn't a priority then yes, it need abandoned. In this case though she is the type of person who when she finally "sees" the err of her way she is very quick to rethink and re-evaluate the situation. Maybe you are right as far as "making excuses for her", but trust me i ain't trying to lol. I just want her to know that i am here for her and wiling to go through this with her. I am just trying to gather as much information and insight so that next time it gets brought up i can let her know about what i found on here . As i told her "knowledge is power" especially when it comes to your significant other.

 

[SpunThings]

ok, done a little bit more research on the interweb. and I think that my gf is a potential more on the S/M part but unknown to what extent. If a sadist or masochist could weigh in that would be a good thing. I mean granted i like some of the stuff that a sadist would do, and i would like to do too. but getting her to open up is the tricky part lol. is it fairly common to wear both hats as far as the BDSM realm goes??? I want us to have a healthy and fun sex life and to be on the same page as each other.

Which both hats are you referring to? Do you mean both giving and receiving? There are definitely people who like that.

 

[newb2016]

yes that is what i was talking about . is that relatively common??

 

[cascadiabound]

yes that is what i was talking about . is that relatively common??

Yes. I would say it is relatively common. Common enough to have a name. It's called "switching" and people who sometimes like to Top and sometimes like to bottom sometimes refer to themselves as a "switch"

Keep in mind that all of this is a continuum. Think of these various behaviors and kinks as a big sex buffet. Some stuff you'll like, some stuff you'll love. Some is great all the time... Some as an occasional dessert, some stuff you'll try once and even if it was okay, you might not care for it again. Other stuff you have no interest in trying at all, ever. And like a food buffet, everyone's plate is different at the end of the line. Which does not make you wrong or weird. It's just what YOU choose to partake of.

 

[IrisAlthea]

yes that is what i was talking about . is that relatively common??

There is a lot of fun to be had with these kind of activities without defining yourself as one thing or other. It's quite ok to just be this couple that does this kind of scene once in a while and switching roles from time to time if that's what you want.

I don't know what she meant when she said that trust has nothing to do with it, but since you did mention that she was concerned about triggering your PTSD, I wouldn't be surprised if she meant that trust will make no difference if that happens.

Questioning or discussing why she wants this, is probably going to be counter productive.
You don't have to look far to find someone going on and on about sadism (and or masochism) being unhealthy, wrong etc etc. Makes it's easy to get defensive about it and most people aren't masochistic enough to enjoy being armchair analysed by their partner.

Since she has expressed concerns and says you probably shouldn't try it, perhaps you could try to ask her what she thinks could go wrong?
Does she trust herself to keep you safe?

 

[newb2016]

IrisAlthea - as far as my PTSD goes i am being treated for it and i am on a even keel 98% of the time even in the event of a lot of stress. with the medication and letting life flow my rage has been under control for the most part and i haven't had a meltdown in years. So i would say i am managing it pretty good, which makes me very happy and content.

I have expressed that i would be willing to explore this with her multiple times. And the way i was catching it from her that her perception of this lifestyle is that it don't matter how much you trust the person or not and that the "top" can do whatever he or she wants to the "bottom", which is where the breakdown comes from. She claims that she would not be able to stop. I have mentioned once before and if this lifestyle is anything similar to swinging, ground rules should be laid out. But in this instance ground rules and a safeword. I don't really ask why she wants this or get to over analytical about it. I am just trying to get her to open up and find out what she desires when she gets "the mood for it" (as she puts it).

I mean i am being a supportive partner and would like to explore this with her cause i would rather she explore it with me than to try and suppress it until she can't no more and she feels like she can't come to me with it. I am having a very difficult time putting the words together effectively but i hope the jist is being seen.
she even said herself that she classifies her fantasies as creepy"and "dark". I know she has a difficult time expressing them to me. I ain't very well versed and decided i would go out on my own and try to piece things together and get ideas to put her mind at ease that i am in fact here for her and i trust her. But if she can't trust herself to stop when/if she has to stop it tells me she needs to look inside herself and grow as a person. in other words she may not be ready mentally.

 

[Blue]

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[CutieMouse]

<snip>

... the way i was catching it from her that her perception of this lifestyle is that it don't matter how much you trust the person or not and that the "top" can do whatever he or she wants to the "bottom", which is where the breakdown comes from.

IF the top and bottom AGREE to a CNC (Consensual Non Consent) relationship, or AGREE that the top gets to do anything, anywhere, any time, by-the-way-I-expect-you-to-juggle-chainsaws-naked-while-skateboarding-through-downtown.....

Then, yes. The top gets to do "anything" they want and the bottom can't say jack shit. Of course, if the bottom goes skateboarding naked through downtown while juggling chainsaws, they are likely to A) get arrested for public indecency and B) injure themselves (which means no more fun sexy times.

Soooooo... sound smart? Notice a lot of stories on the news about kinky people skateboarding down the street naked, juggling chainsaws? No? That's because that BS tends to only happen in PORN. With the crew, and the director, and the script, blahblahblah.

As for the trust thing - The hell I'd let someone brand new to my life, that I don't know well, that may or may not have "issues" control. Control gets handed over in increments, because at the end of the day I am still responsible for staying alive and not permanently injured/damaged.

She claims that she would not be able to stop. I have mentioned once before and if this lifestyle is anything similar to swinging, ground rules should be laid out. But in this instance ground rules and a safeword. I don't really ask why she wants this or get to over analytical about it. I am just trying to get her to open up and find out what she desires when she gets "the mood for it" (as she puts it).

Does she know how to behave in public? Does she attack her boss when she gets pissed off? Any dunk & disorderly in her backgound? Generally speaking knows how to follow the law?

She can do kinky shit and stop when you tell her to. Especially because if she doesn't, you can press charges.

If she can't be an adult in the relationship, she needs to do therapy, or not be in a relationship until she can [be an adult].

I mean i am being a supportive partner and would like to explore this with her cause i would rather she explore it with me than to try and suppress it until she can't no more and she feels like she can't come to me with it. I am having a very difficult time putting the words together effectively but i hope the jist is being seen.


She even said herself that she classifies her fantasies as creepy"and "dark". I know she has a difficult time expressing them to me. I ain't very well versed and decided i would go out on my own and try to piece things together and get ideas to put her mind at ease that i am in fact here for her and i trust her. But if she can't trust herself to stop when/if she has to stop it tells me she needs to look inside herself and grow as a person. in other words she may not be ready mentally.

That's why some things are better off staying fantasies. But again - if she can't even own her shit enough to communicate? She has no business playing in the deep end of the pool. I don't have a lot of patience for people who want this fabulous adult kinky sex life, but aren't interested in doing the hard work to go about it ethically.

What does she think, that she's the only person on the planet who's struggled with desires and sexuality? That she's the only one who feels awkward and vulnerable admitting X?