earning her submission?

[Wild_Honey_66]

I've heard that it's the job of the dominant partner to earn the submission of their potential sub. What does that look like? How long should it take? What are the responsibilities of the proposed sub during this time? Who is meant to initiate the process, or does it matter? It seems as though it might be similar to courting, or have I got it all wrong?

I'm guessing there are no hard-and-fast answers here, but a general idea would be helpful. Thank you.

 

[midwestyankee]

It's a relationship. Just a relationship. Like every relationship, there is a balance of responsibility between the partners. Dominance and submission in some or all aspects of the relationship happen when those are the ways in which the partners choose to love. The only rules are the same ones that govern all relationships: love each other as you would choose to be loved. While one partner might swing the crop and the other takes the blows from it because that's how they get their rocks off, each is 100% responsible for the success of the relationship.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Got it. Thanks.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

http://rs923.pbsrc.com/albums/ad78/clester_eboy/asd.jpg~c200

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

http://rs923.pbsrc.com/albums/ad78/clester_eboy/asd.jpg~c200

what are you doing here?

This is serious stuff, you know!

 

[SpunThings]

I've heard that it's the job of the dominant partner to earn the submission of their potential sub. What does that look like? How long should it take? What are the responsibilities of the proposed sub during this time? Who is meant to initiate the process, or does it matter? It seems as though it might be similar to courting, or have I got it all wrong?

I'm guessing there are no hard-and-fast answers here, but a general idea would be helpful. Thank you.

For a lot of people, it is courting. Also, it's good to brush up on your relationship negotiating skills.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

For a lot of people, it is courting. Also, it's good to brush up on your relationship negotiating skills.

Hm, I think I'm pretty good at negotiating the little things, but the big things? Not so much.

 

[SpunThings]

Hm, I think I'm pretty good at negotiating the little things, but the big things? Not so much.

Negotiation in the beginning is basically about learning whether or not you're compatible. Do your partner's desires compliment your own? Do you have the same values and priorities? It's about figuring out together HOW you're going to conduct your relationship.

If you can do the little things, you can do the big. Just get in the habit of bringing up issues fairly soon as they arise, rather than riding it out and waiting for it to go away. Discuss your needs, and hers. Try to see any inability to compromise as a sign of incompatibility, rather than one of you is right or wrong. If you get enough of those signs, it may mean you're not as good a fit together. But I'd recommend all this about vanilla relationships too.

 

[SpunThings]

Some people are capable of submitting right away. Others give little bits over time. It's more about earning trust on both sides. Showing you are a trustworthy partner, and compatible with what they want to get out of a relationship.

 

[CoercedAnon]

Some people are capable of submitting right away. Others give little bits over time. It's more about earning trust on both sides. Showing you are a trustworthy partner, and compatible with what they want to get out of a relationship.

beautifully worded.
second-ing this.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Great advice for any kind of relationship, thank you.

(Also, I'm the 'her.' )

 

[SpunThings]

Great advice for any kind of relationship, thank you.

(Also, I'm the 'her.' )

Sorry! I tried to keep it gender neutral, but obviously slipped up a bit.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Sorry! I tried to keep it gender neutral, but obviously slipped up a bit.

Nothing to forgive.

Your advice is perfectly relevant either way, I just thought I'd clear up any confusion sooner rather than later.

 

[cascadiabound]

I think that the notion that the PYL must "earn" the submission of the pyl is misplaced. Any more than the the pyl has to be good enough to "earn" the domination of the PYL. As others have said, these things are simply a negotiation of a relationship. Based on communication and of the needs of the two people. This requires trust. And being trustworthy. On BOTH sides.
There is a lot of talk about the pyl needing to be able to trust the PYL in order to be able to submit. While this is true, I think it is equally true, that the PYL must learn to trust the pyl that it is okay to dominate.
This is not unlike courting in any other relationship, but more so.

Because D/s does have power exchange within it - and may have many other elements of kink, pain, impact play, etc, the level of trust between the two people as they communicate their likes, preferences, tolerances; what works and does not work becomes of critical importance. Add to that the necessity of determining how much of your life is controlled by elements of BDSM. For some, this is only about sexual play. For others, it is 24/7 - and a whole range of in between.

Always... is respect, trust and communication.
"earn" is a currency that I would just as soon leave out of it.

 

[Wolfias]

Sounds like far too much trouble without enough return. And to think some people feel that a Vanilla relationship is difficult. Yeah, those into Dom/sub relationships will say things are simplified. Ha! If it involves Human Beings it's already fucked from the start. But what the hell, we're all just crazed lunatics spinning on a rock doomed to fail. Have a nice day, my Rorschach impression is over. See yourself out.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

I think that the notion that the PYL must "earn" the submission of the pyl is misplaced. Any more than the the pyl has to be good enough to "earn" the domination of the PYL. As others have said, these things are simply a negotiation of a relationship. Based on communication and of the needs of the two people. This requires trust. And being trustworthy. On BOTH sides.
There is a lot of talk about the pyl needing to be able to trust the PYL in order to be able to submit. While this is true, I think it is equally true, that the PYL must learn to trust the pyl that it is okay to dominate.
This is not unlike courting in any other relationship, but more so.

Because D/s does have power exchange within it - and may have many other elements of kink, pain, impact play, etc, the level of trust between the two people as they communicate their likes, preferences, tolerances; what works and does not work becomes of critical importance. Add to that the necessity of determining how much of your life is controlled by elements of BDSM. For some, this is only about sexual play. For others, it is 24/7 - and a whole range of in between.

Always... is respect, trust and communication.
"earn" is a currency that I would just as soon leave out of it.

Thank you for chiming in, cb.

Especially loving your last line. Better to not start down that path at all.

 

[cascadiabound]

Sounds like far too much trouble without enough return. And to think some people feel that a Vanilla relationship is difficult. Yeah, those into Dom/sub relationships will say things are simplified. Ha! If it involves Human Beings it's already fucked from the start. But what the hell, we're all just crazed lunatics spinning on a rock doomed to fail. Have a nice day, my Rorschach impression is over. See yourself out.

For those of us who are wired to "need" to submit, or "need" to dominate - then it is worth all of the trouble of any other relationship. In fact it is necessary.

Yes - human beings are complicated, crazy, sometimes fucked up. But we also need each other. Need love. Need care. Need to love. Need to be understood. And we each are striving to find a mate that meets us in the needs that we have as best as we are able to understand them.

It is not helpful to belittle each others' journey in this, vanilla, kinky, D/s or otherwise. No matter the precise path, and no matter what those things are that turn you on, it is a complicated thing to find a partner that can "see" your soul and is willing to dance with you step for step.

 

[gluttonne]

Yeah, those into Dom/sub relationships will say things are simplified. Ha! If it involves Human Beings it's already fucked from the start.

This is also pretty much my assessment.

 

[gluttonne]

I've heard that it's the job of the dominant partner to earn the submission of their potential sub. What does that look like? How long should it take? What are the responsibilities of the proposed sub during this time? Who is meant to initiate the process, or does it matter? It seems as though it might be similar to courting, or have I got it all wrong?

As others have said, there isn't really a "rule" about this, and the courting is basically similar to any vanilla relationship in that what it entails is defined by the two people in a prospective relationship, not a book of rules, a social contract or anything else external.

I suppose I could argue that I have "earned" the submission of partners through some combination of physical, social, psychological and biological traits, but I never really looked at it that way. In my experience, pretty much every woman I've ever really clicked with has naturally ended up being somewhat submissive at least in the bedroom (and this includes multiple women who previously were dominant in such situations). I don't always have a clear explanation for how it works, only that it always seems to be that way.

 

[Callmetim]

It's a relationship. Just a relationship. Like every relationship, there is a balance of responsibility between the partners.

Seeking that balance, it is unlikely 100% of your kink will fall in lock step with 100% of their kink. Relationships typically find compromise inevitable. If there is 85% compatibility between your kink checkboxes, talk about that remaining 15% and see if there are any things that might be bigger than you realize for the other person. If there is 15% compatibility, however, it's unlikely you will be able to negotiate the remaining 85%.

There are also those submissives whom give their checklist to a dominant completely blank, fulfilled by following their dominant's lead, wishing only to serve and/or care.

Wherever one is in the BDSM spectrum, they are correct, right within themselves. There is no one size fits all D/s. We all have a good idea of what we are looking for, it's finding that match, that tether, that resonance, the balance which is what becomes important.

There is a lot of talk about the pyl needing to be able to trust the PYL in order to be able to submit. While this is true, I think it is equally true, that the PYL must learn to trust the pyl that it is okay to dominate.

This is spot on. Some submissives crave being broken, pushed past an emotional wall they had, to cry, having a kind of catharsis through this experience. A dominant needs to trust the submissive that those moments are welcome and perhaps even necessary for the submissive at those times. Others might set specific hard limits and too much pain is unwelcome. It boils down to trusting what freedoms are available and what (current) limits are in place. Limits can be pushed, just depends on communication.

Always... is respect, trust and communication.
"earn" is a currency that I would just as soon leave out of it.

If we continue the idea of relationships, does one wake up one morning and decide to "earn" a significant other? We cannot earn someone, we learn about them. If the more we learn, the more we like, we both agree to become something more.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Tim!

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful remarks. I'm listening!

 

[Wolfias]

And in the end we die remembering nothing of whatever we imagined we had. Love the illusion of brain chemistry.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

...Some submissives crave being broken, pushed past an emotional wall they had, to cry, having a kind of catharsis through this experience. A dominant needs to trust the submissive that those moments are welcome and perhaps even necessary for the submissive at those times...

This would be amazing. To have a safe place to be completely vulnerable, after spending all day, every day needing to be strong. Simply amazing.

 

[emcwolf13]

It is unlikely 100% of your kink will fall in lock step with 100% of their kink. Relationships typically find compromise inevitable. If there is 85% compatibility between your kink checkboxes, talk about that remaining 15% and see if there are any things that might be bigger than you realize for the other person. If there is 15% compatibility, however, it's unlikely you will be able to negotiate the remaining 85%.

Wherever one is in the BDSM spectrum, they are correct, right within themselves. There is no one size fits all D/s. We all have a good idea of what we are looking for, it's finding that match, that tether, that resonance, the balance which is what becomes important.

Some submissives crave being broken, pushed past an emotional wall they had, to cry, having a kind of catharsis through this experience. A dominant needs to trust the submissive that those moments are welcome and perhaps even necessary for the submissive at those times. It boils down to trusting what freedoms are available and what (current) limits are in place. Limits can be pushed, just depends on communication.

If we continue the idea of relationships, does one wake up one morning and decide to "earn" a significant other? We cannot earn someone, we learn about them. If the more we learn, the more we like, we both agree to become something more.

This all seems to hit the nail on the head. As a relative newbie to the lifestyle, this thread is incredibly educational and much appreciated.

Tim, I really love your last line - it really helped put everything in the proper perspective for me.

 

[Raingirl85]

IMO...The idea of "earning" my submission doesn't sit well with me. Like someone else said, does one "earn" a relationship with their SO? It's not about earning. It's about compatibility. When I am with a compatible partner my submission is instant, effortless, it's me free to truly be me. It's chemistry, trust, respect. That doesn't mean we're exploring our darkest fantasies on day 1.. it just means that the roles feel right and natural from the start, and we grow and explore our kink together from there.

But when you meet someone it's not there with, it feels forced..it's not working, and you end it and move on.