Themed Contest Off-Topic Discussion

[oggbashan]

...

P.S. In contrast to some folks here (you? Laurel?) I don't see myself as just a user of Literotica; I'm an investor in Literotica. I'm providing the Web site's product.

And I'm not?

 

[sr71plt]

And I'm not?

Beats me. You certainly are doing a lot of blaming of the discussion rather than root of the problems, as far as I can see. You're sure to get an "atta boy" and rose from Laurel here in a minute or two.

If you've seen the Web site respond to some of these issues in the last ten years, feel free to point them out.

 

[oggbashan]

Beats me. You certainly are doing a lot of blaming of the discussion rather than root of the problems, as far as I can see. You're sure to get an "atta boy" and rose from Laurel here in a minute or two.

Have you looked at my list of submissions?

Your previous post implied that I don't contribute to Literotica's product.

 

[sr71plt]

Have you looked at my list of submissions?

Your previous post implied that I don't contribute to Literotica's product.

No, you're misrepresenting what I posted. I implied that you might not see yourself as an investor rather than just a user of the Web site. I think a lot of authors here--and that the Web site, in it's response to threads like this does as well--see just the enabling side of having their stories posted here. They don't see that the money-making product of this Web site is their stories. They are the ones paying for the Web site and the contest winnings (yes, yes, advertisers do, but the advertisers are playing off the story file here--along with a bunch of functions that haven't worked for years and the Web site won't clean up. They sure as hell aren't paying for yet another General Board forum).

I think the providers of the product damn well deserve more than silence and stonewalling from the Web site when they complain about the contests and deserve not to be called trolls for pointing to functions that aren't working and they expend their time in explaining the nonfunctioning to new users.

And yes, you, got my dander up by trying to foist off the problem of the contests on people who want to discuss the problems of the contests.

 

[RejectReality]

Dumping the money wouldn't change squat at this point. No change made would. People have too much invested in tearing the contests down to ever accept anything as sufficient. There will always be "one more thing wrong that completely destroys the integrity of the contests."

The cause is the goal now.

 

[lovecraft68]

Last post. A couple someone's said I 'whine' about the contests, that I'm 'jealous'

I'm going to dispel that little claim very easily and if it looks like bragging, its not, its fact and pointed out for refuting purposes.

Point is I have nothing to whine about here. Now let's say that was said to Pilot. He's never won a contest here, I'm not poking fun, its a fact and I'm sure there is crap behind why-but someone could say "Shut up, you're a sore loser." wouldn't be right, but small minded trolls are just that.

Someone whines for themselves, when they keep losing or not getting anywhere and its always another person's fault for cheating them

What have I been cheated out of here? Nothing, maybe a couple of contests early on where I think I was to new to get the drop on an established author(and oh, yes that happens) but otherwise?

Let's see all the things I have to whine about, all the things I haven't done here.

131 stories 124 with a red H (2 at 4.49 for the record, until this post is read and the drop)

4 contest wins, 3 themed one monthly two firsts two thirds. None in incest even though all I am is an 'incest writer"

Stories on the first page of several top lists including one that stayed 1-3 for close to three years in Mature all time.

The mature category like every other is dominated by chapters 15 of the top 20 are chapters. I have two of the five that aren't. Sound like someone who needs an edge?

Nominated for four categories in the monthlies best Horror, best mature, sexiest female and author.

Yeah, I got so much to whine about, don't I? More importantly I have so much to be jealous of, especially seeing I'm not the one spending all my time scratching my head and plotting about every advantage I can get here, I just write what I want when I want how I want, maybe a few others should try that, its actually fun and any wins gained? Are a lot sweeter then when stunts have to be pulled for them.

I 'whine' because its unfair for others. Because of people like Serafina and anyone else who got disgusted because of the bullshit here. I call BS because its my nature to call BS even when it has no effect on me at all.

Maybe I have white knight syndrome, comes from abhorring bullies to the point I teach self defense to the people who don't know how to defend themselves. I stick up for people who are not named LC, I am not saying I'm some crusader, but I'll open my mouth even if its not 'my house' suffering.

And that doesn't go over well on a site that preaches apathy and whatever, and its always the person's fault who sees an issue

Got a voting block of 15-20 people having a field day with the year awards because sadly so few vote they can have that effect.

I'm head to head with two of them. In my mind if I finish within 15 votes of them then I've actually won, course that's in my mind the award winning "W' can go to them.

And I'm not alone in this.

What's Pilot got to whine about? He's been writing his whole life and had success in the pay market and other genres outside of erotica. He's 'whining' because he sees something wrong and frustrated because its all acted upon like a joke, for Christ's sake this is a site that won't fix their contact us button

What's TX rad got to whine about? Guy has legit publishing deals, he writes here for fun. IN fact he has the deals the 'greatest authors in erotica' would love to have, they have 'awards" he's got the $$$ and the deal, so what does he have to whine about?

Deflection is a damn art form here.

 

[sr71plt]

Dumping the money wouldn't change squat at this point. No change made would. People have too much invested in tearing the contests down to ever accept anything as sufficient. There will always be "one more thing wrong that completely destroys the integrity of the contests."

The cause is the goal now.

Nope. All I'm asking for is that the money be dropped. I'm tired of paying for bad behavior. And, obviously, since I'm fully one-third or one-fifth of those with any complaints, there would be significant change right there. I promise. Drop the money and I won't complain about the contests, as screwed up as they are.

See how easy that brought about a 20 percent change in the complaint level?

 

[oggbashan]

No, you're misrepresenting what I posted. I implied that you might not see yourself as an investor rather than just a user of the Web site. I think a lot of authors here--and that the Web site, in it's response to threads like this does as well--see just the enabling side of having their stories posted here. They don't see that the money-making product of this Web site is their stories. They are the ones paying for the Web site and the contest winnings (yes, yes, advertisers do, but the advertisers are playing off the story file here--along with a bunch of functions that haven't worked for years and the Web site won't clean up. They sure as hell aren't paying for yet another General Board forum).

I think the providers of the product damn well deserve more than silence and stonewalling from the Web site when they complain about the contests and deserve not to be called trolls for pointing to functions that aren't working and they expend their time in explaining the nonfunctioning to new users.

And yes, you, got my dander up by trying to foist off the problem of the contests on people who want to discuss the problems of the contests.

I suspect that we are talking past each other. I know that by contributing stories I am making money for Literotica, even if my financial contribution is far less than yours or other authors that are far more popular than I am.

I am aware that Literotica has problems with contests but I am only discussing the THEMED contests. I have no experience or much knowledge of the monthly or annual contests, nor what happens in them.

I want the THEMED contests to continue, yes to improve, but also to attract far more entries which would make vote manipulation more difficult. Whatever improvements Literotica makes to the system of voting there will still be people, for whatever reason, who will want to influence the results.

You are suggesting that it is Authors that manipulate the voting system. I am saying that for the THEMED contests there are other factors as well, not just authors but that the THEMED contests could be less vulnerable even without improvements IF there were far more entries.

We may be arguing with each other but we have the same object - an improved and less vulnerable voting system, me just for the themed contests, you for ALL contests.

The money you could win from the contests? It is not life-changing and I would suggest it is not even significant to most Lit Authors.

You and I both want a better system. I'm saying it could be if more people took part.

Edited for PS: Just look at my list of stories and see how few Red Hs there are. I'm NOT popular.

 

[Serafina1210]

One more thing as this thread winds down. My only complaint at this point is about the themed contests: I've made my peace, more or less, with the rest of the site, warts and all. I did go so far as to get an account on Some Other Site, but when I saw the view counts on the stories there I was like WTF? So when the writing bug bit hard again, I ended up back here.

That said, it seems to me that, without meaning it, the site tends to be more rewarding to some sorts than to others. I am rather thin-skinned, other-directed, averse to combat. I brood about insults instead of shrugging them off. Honestly, I don't know how to change these traits, and at my age it hardly seems worth it. Yet the standard advice for those upset by trolls and one-bombs is "toughen up." I'd rather not, really: I think it would probably ruin the kind of writing I do, which I believe has a place here.

Again, not a complaint, but an observation. Now I return to researching the structure of the anus. Do you have any idea how many muscular valves and valve-like structures the average penis has got to penetrate before it's fully inserted?

 

[oggbashan]

One more thing as this thread winds down. My only complaint at this point is about the themed contests: I've made my peace, more or less, with the rest of the site, warts and all. I did go so far as to get an account on Some Other Site, but when I saw the view counts on the stories there I was like WTF? So when the writing bug bit hard again, I ended up back here.

That said, it seems to me that, without meaning it, the site tends to be more rewarding to some sorts than to others. I am rather thin-skinned, other-directed, averse to combat. I brood about insults instead of shrugging them off. Honestly, I don't know how to change these traits, and at my age it hardly seems worth it. Yet the standard advice for those upset by trolls and one-bombs is "toughen up." I'd rather not, really: I think it would probably ruin the kind of writing I do, which I believe has a place here.

Again, not a complaint, but an observation. Now I return to researching the structure of the anus. Do you have any idea how many muscular valves and valve-like structures the average penis has got to penetrate before it's fully inserted?

Another way, discussed in another thread elsewhere, to deal with one-bombs and trolls is to turn off all voting and comments, or to accept comments only from those who are signed in. The second way won't stop those who are prepared to be obvious assholes, but will reduce the number of unpleasant comments. The first way makes that story ineligible for the contests.

Edited to add: This thread in Story Feedback:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1285032

 

[RejectReality]

Here's a question for everyone who believes that the contests are utterly broken, and that Laurel doesn't care/likes it that way:

What are you accomplishing in that case with the daily screed?

I'll give you a hint.

If people think the contests are flawed and they don't want to participate, that's going to happen whether anybody is screaming about it or not.

The people who have given up on the contests or the site entirely because of the witch hunts, conspiracy theories, personal vendettas, and other various junk, though...

Those are on you.

 

[Serafina1210]

Another way, discussed in another thread elsewhere, to deal with one-bombs and trolls is to turn off all voting and comments, or to accept comments only from those who are signed in. The second way won't stop those who are prepared to be obvious assholes, but will reduce the number of unpleasant comments. The first way makes that story ineligible for the contests.

Edited to add: This thread in Story Feedback:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1285032

I did turn off Anonymous comments for a while, but I missed the good ones I used to get (both favorable and negative-but-not-trolls), so I turned them back on. Likewise with votes. I prefer putting up with trolls to having no voting.

Nowadays I just take my lumps.

 

[sr71plt]

Yep, nothing's going to happen. That, again, is the actual problem--discussing it isn't the problem. And, yep, you (the generic you) reach a point where you don't give a shit that pointing out the problem doesn't perpetuate the pretense or look good to the advertisers.

Perhaps LC put it most succinctly. This is a Web site that in more than ten years hasn't bothered to fix its "contact us" button.

 

[GoldenMaia]

More contests

I wish there were actually MORE contests and without money attached to them. Something other than the monthly: 'if your story manages to get the most 'likes' and 'views'.' If there were more contests it would allow people to try for different themes or stories.

It's already competitive enough with people wanting red H's and high votes and most views. Why include money in it to bring out the worst in people (and the fans of people)? It would be nice to feature categories that aren't as heavily viewed so authors in those spots might get a little attention.

Is there a way to host other contests? Maybe a 'bragging rights only' contest in between the cash money contests?

People who don't like the rule-flexing in the money contests might find a more comfortable home without the cut throats. (Maybe).

 

[Carnal_Flower]

The contests are fun. The deadline is often an incentive to finish something and the themes are a challenge. Personally I had horrible writer's block for 8 months. The recent one was a chance to get something done. I appreciated it.

I would like to see more contests, too, preferably, where everyone has to write in the same genre.

Pitting categories against each other is what makes the Themed Contests a "shrug" for me. The voting audiences are so different.

I wish there were actually MORE contests and without money attached to them. Something other than the monthly: 'if your story manages to get the most 'likes' and 'views'.' If there were more contests it would allow people to try for different themes or stories.

It's already competitive enough with people wanting red H's and high votes and most views. Why include money in it to bring out the worst in people (and the fans of people)? It would be nice to feature categories that aren't as heavily viewed so authors in those spots might get a little attention.

Is there a way to host other contests? Maybe a 'bragging rights only' contest in between the cash money contests?

People who don't like the rule-flexing in the money contests might find a more comfortable home without the cut throats. (Maybe).

 

[oggbashan]

I wish there were actually MORE contests and without money attached to them. Something other than the monthly: 'if your story manages to get the most 'likes' and 'views'.' If there were more contests it would allow people to try for different themes or stories.

...
Is there a way to host other contests? Maybe a 'bragging rights only' contest in between the cash money contests?

People who don't like the rule-flexing in the money contests might find a more comfortable home without the cut throats. (Maybe).

The contests are fun. The deadline is often an incentive to finish something and the themes are a challenge. Personally I had horrible writer's block for 8 months. The recent one was a chance to get something done. I appreciated it.

I would like to see more contests, too, preferably, where everyone has to write in the same genre.

Pitting categories against each other is what makes the Themed Contests a "shrug" for me. The voting audiences are so different.

The Authors' Hangout has a sub-forum Writers Challenges and Exercises. Anyone could start a thread there for a specific contest, with a submission date and a closing date. To enter, all that is necessary is to post a link to a new submitted story.

In the past we have had Authors' Hangout challenges to complete a chain story; and to write a story given a title or a first sentence.

BUT - none of those would attract the attention that the themed contests get, and each author would have to declare their rating at a specified time to see who has 'won'.

 

[sr71plt]

One of the suggestions that has come up over the years has been to dedicate one of the contest slots during the year to a category, changing that category each year, so that there isn't cross-category competition for at least one contest. That's presumably what the monthly contests are supposed to cover, but with all of the "incomplete story" chapters clogging that series up, it's not really encouraging story competition there.

That suggestion has been yet another one met with the cone of silence.

 

[JKendallDane]

Here's a question for everyone who believes that the contests are utterly broken, and that Laurel doesn't care/likes it that way:

What are you accomplishing in that case with the daily screed?

I'll give you a hint.

If people think the contests are flawed and they don't want to participate, that's going to happen whether anybody is screaming about it or not.

The people who have given up on the contests or the site entirely because of the witch hunts, conspiracy theories, personal vendettas, and other various junk, though...

Those are on you.

Probably the most accurate and honest post on this thread so far.

Thank you for cutting to the bone, RR!

.

 

[sr71plt]

What interests do you have in the contests, Duane? When was the last time you had the courage to take on the challenge? Or are you just here as your voting block's spokesperson?

 

[RejectReality]

So, the answer is that it's bitching for bitching's sake.

How exactly does railing against something you believe will never be fixed and setting off wars between users improve things in the eyes of advertisers? Seems to me that's adding one more deterrent to investment.

Throwing another bag of garbage on the heap doesn't make it any smaller.

I'm not complacent. I'm simply patient. I've observed some of the infrastructure changes rolling out, and understand the complexity of overhauling something that is in continuous use by thousands of people at any given moment and sitting on a foundation that was constructed during what was essentially the bronze age of the internet.

I probably won't say anything when the changes roll out, but you can bet your ass that I'll notice the crow feathers hanging out of some people's mouths and chuckle quietly to myself.

 

[GoldenMaia]

Ah-ha!

Thank you! I put a post over there. Will see if anyone is even interested to begin with. Easier to /say/ people are interested but need to see it. Right? (Much easier to talk about change than do anything.)

Here's the post in case people want to see.
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=76165484#post76165484

I know it won't be a huge draw but I hope some people will jump in. What do you have to lose?

The Authors' Hangout has a sub-forum Writers Challenges and Exercises. Anyone could start a thread there for a specific contest, with a submission date and a closing date. To enter, all that is necessary is to post a link to a new submitted story.

In the past we have had Authors' Hangout challenges to complete a chain story; and to write a story given a title or a first sentence.

BUT - none of those would attract the attention that the themed contests get, and each author would have to declare their rating at a specified time to see who has 'won'.

 

[MSTarot]

To me, the money part of the contest does have meaning. To the people it means something to.

Stay with me here.

When I first got started on Literotica , back in 2011, I wrote a contest story but when the winter contest rolled around I looked at the stories already posted I didn't enter. Why? I was intimidated by the quality of writing I saw there.

Valentines rolled around. Same. And same for the other contests till Summer Lovin' 2012. That was a very bad year, I was flat broke and scrounging. I wrote my heart out and entered a story. I was swinging for the fences trying for any amount of money.

I posted a story called "Gray Iron" It placed 9th out of 170 (ish?) stories.

Well, not long after that life took a turn for the better, I had money again and I had that courage as a writer that I didn't have before. ($150.00 was again not a lot of cash, I make several times that much a week as a bricklayer.) I have entered every contest since then. Sometimes I place stories where I again swing for the fences, sometimes I just place one there for playing sake.

As everyone here should know by now, writing is a hard game to play. Oh, it's easy to mash two thousand words together and make them have some kind of meaning. But the hard part comes when you have to face the fires. To put that piece of yourself out there to be seen. Now anything that builds a writer's confidence is golden when it comes to that.

99% of all writers kill their own dreams of being a writer * Jim Butcher.

And that is so very true. I've seen so many say they don't think they can write when they do beautiful work.

So no, a $150 bucks isn't that big of a deal and yeah Lit could make the contest for just bragging rights. But there are writers on here just getting started, people with one story, or not even that much, who need the confidence to get a foot in the door on this site. And winning a contest for money can give that.

A lot of people who post here in the AH have become jaded. The huge story lists that build up from years of posting make them forget what it felt like to have one story out there and come home to find a comment. To see that someone favored their story.

Or to give it your best effort and nearly place in a contest.

Or to win.

Look down my list, you will see one W on it.

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=1384609&page=submissions

Second place in a Summer lovin'. That felt so wonderful to see when I got in from work ... then.

Now ... well if I won a contest now it would still be great. But, like the money, it no longer has the same level of ecstatic delight it once did. Knowing I will be opening a package here in a week with my copy of a paperback book with my work in it, that has taken its emotional place. I'm giddy as a little kid to see my words on a printed page.

So why do I still enter contests here on Literotica?

Habit for one, but the main reason is still to grow as a writer. I love the challenge. Literotica has some of the most talented writers this world has, living lives of quiet desperation, yearning to be heard. But make no mistake you are not my competition. The only writer I'm in competition with is myself. I'll happily cheer on the winners. Not for writing a better story than me but for writing. Just writing!

And if you feel that you enter contests to beat your fellow writers then bring it. Bring your A game. Bring your very best work to the surface. Don't write something simple, push yourself. Write what you think you can never write. Show every writer on Literotica that you're the very best writer that has ever picked up a pen or typed a key. Do it.

Win or lose you've done better that a $150 gift card just by doing that.

 

[sr71plt]

So, the answer is that it's bitching for bitching's sake.

How exactly does railing against something you believe will never be fixed and setting off wars between users improve things in the eyes of advertisers? Seems to me that's adding one more deterrent to investment.

Throwing another bag of garbage on the heap doesn't make it any smaller.

I'm not complacent. I'm simply patient. I've observed some of the infrastructure changes rolling out, and understand the complexity of overhauling something that is in continuous use by thousands of people at any given moment and sitting on a foundation that was constructed during what was essentially the bronze age of the internet.

I probably won't say anything when the changes roll out, but you can bet your ass that I'll notice the crow feathers hanging out of some people's mouths and chuckle quietly to myself.

The difference is that you are in with the Web site. You get listened to. Interesting that you don't see the frustration of not being responded to and being foisted off with a "soon" for years and years or just met with the cone of silence or be called a troll for pointing out that something doesn't work that obviously doesn't work.

When these claimed changes come along that you seem to be privy to, I'll be looking to see if they respond to anything that came up by way of a "nice to have" or "need to clean up" over the last decade. Although I liked some of what was dropped in the last update, it had absolutely nothing to do with what folks had been suggesting/asking for years. Many of the issues brought up don't even require systems changes, a reality that keeps being shoved under the carpet in this "discussion."

What do YOU say to not having fixed the "contact us" button for more than a decade and leaving it to regular forum users to tell newcomers what they have to do even to connect with the Web site admins?

 

[legerdemer]

FAWCs

Slyc_willie ran five FAWCs - friendly anonymous writing contests - before he passed away last November. Lynn ran a 6th in his honor, though there was more limited participation. Look for the FAWC threads and you'll see - they were a lot of fun to participate in. The attraction was that authors commented on each other's stories without knowing whose stories they were on commenting, so the responses were more knowledgeable, informed and honest than those for the themed contests. The stories were all first posted in Chain Stories, a category without much readership, which largely insulated these from the usual shenanigans.

One could easily be fit between now and Nude Day, if there was interest.

PS. I just saw your proposal, Maia - I'll think on it (I'm a slow slow writer and am planning a long Nude Day story). You should start a thread in the AH forum as well, for more exposure. If any of the features of the FAWCs sound good, you should incorporate them into your challenge.

I wish there were actually MORE contests and without money attached to them. Something other than the monthly: 'if your story manages to get the most 'likes' and 'views'.' If there were more contests it would allow people to try for different themes or stories.

It's already competitive enough with people wanting red H's and high votes and most views. Why include money in it to bring out the worst in people (and the fans of people)? It would be nice to feature categories that aren't as heavily viewed so authors in those spots might get a little attention.

Is there a way to host other contests? Maybe a 'bragging rights only' contest in between the cash money contests?

People who don't like the rule-flexing in the money contests might find a more comfortable home without the cut throats. (Maybe).

The contests are fun. The deadline is often an incentive to finish something and the themes are a challenge. Personally I had horrible writer's block for 8 months. The recent one was a chance to get something done. I appreciated it.

I would like to see more contests, too, preferably, where everyone has to write in the same genre.

Pitting categories against each other is what makes the Themed Contests a "shrug" for me. The voting audiences are so different.

 

[RejectReality]

Whenever an explanation is given for why something is the way it is, it's either ignored completely or called bullshit. Then the same complaint is immediately stated again, even louder, and spiced up with a healthy dose of 'Laurel doesn't care or respond'.

Which is why many don't get responses very often, I should imagine. It would seem Laurel is less fond of galloping full-tilt into windmills than others.

There are things I would change on the current pages while working on the update, were it me, but I'm not privy to exactly what issues that might cause. What Laurel has said ( on the open forum, I might add ) is that she was told by the techs that making changes to existing pages can be problematic for the work going on behind the scenes. It also takes away time that could be spent working on the updated version.

Having experienced similar issues when working on my own code, I choose to accept that explanation without a powerpoint presentation detailing every nuance.

This is no different than when the toplists were broken. Over and over again she was accused of ignoring the problem, when the fact of the matter is that the problem was elusive. Eventually, enough reports and information from users came in to track down the problem, allowing the toplists to be fixed.

Not a peep about that during the "unresponsive website" rants. Or the hubs, which arose from user feedback. Or the scores appearing everywhere, which arose from user feedback. Or the updated, multi-timeframe toplists, which arose from user feedback.

And the "features nobody asked for" like the ability to set your own URL? Nothing more than a gift to those who might find it useful in the process of doing necessary infrastructure upgrades to friendly URLs. Google was warning at the time that listing would be affected by failure to do so, much as they're warning now that websites which don't have responsive code for mobile devices will suffer in the listings, which are critical to the survival of any website.

I expect that when the glitches and artifacts existing in the current site are resolved by the update, those who want to bitch will pretend it never happened and continue to rail on about how the website is unresponsive concerning whatever the next issue down the pike is, just as they are now.