Mustang culling , opinions and facts needed

[4215]

Not for the first time we hear proposals to cull mustangs can anyone or organisation shed any light on this . Truth or rumour???
From the outside it seems that with a little thought this could be avoided. To an outsider and horse lover like me it seems a very extreme action
We have a similar situation in Australia with our brumbies ( wild horses ) whose numbers are increasing .

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It is necessary for the health of the herds. Being a niche creature, they inhabit tracts of land that are sparse in resource as ranching and farm activity tend to push them out of more resourceful lands, not to mention how much of our vast west was stolen from the states by the federal government and are pretty much run by green loons whose thought process is first and foremost "pristine and untouched," with nary a thought to the idea that they are not even a native species. Without culling, they graze themselves to the point of starvation. Keeping a horse, especially one that you may never get anything productive out of is cost prohibitive, so there's not a lot of capture and adopt factor there.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Here's a timely coincidence:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-more-top-stories_burros-725pm:homepage/story

Protected burro population exploding in Arizona.

 

[4215]

Mustangs / brumbies / burros

Here's a timely coincidence:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-more-top-stories_burros-725pm:homepage/story

Protected burro population exploding in Arizona.

Thanks for yet another interesting angle .
It's an amazing thing that these animals are not native species and as such do need effective controls to make sure some sort of balance can be maintained.
The fine question is how to do this in a cost effective manner .
To further complicate things in Australia we also have ( feral ) wild camels in the Northern Territory which are increasing in numbers and are presently being quietly culled for the same reason .

 

[seamus221]

Not for the first time we hear proposals to cull mustangs can anyone or organisation shed any light on this . Truth or rumour???
From the outside it seems that with a little thought this could be avoided. To an outsider and horse lover like me it seems a very extreme action
We have a similar situation in Australia with our brumbies ( wild horses ) whose numbers are increasing .

They breed and in a few years time they will not have enough food to feed themselves.
Same reason for all hunting, fishing and a normal part of survival.

In fact a certain Democrat Party has started using this same method by making drive thru abortions to keep certain sections of our nations population from getting to high.
They call it Women's Rights but its just a slick way to get you to kill your babies and not feel guilty .

But hey lets worry over Animals and made up computer dooms day climate change lies while babies are killed in the hundreds each day
Yes lets worry about wild horses.

 

[Hypoxia]

In fact a certain Democrat Party has started using this same method by making drive thru abortions to keep certain sections of our nations population from getting to high.

Kewl drugs, dewd. Gonna share?

In El Paso some years back I saw drive-thru guns-n-ammo shops and pr0n parlors. In Tennessee I saw drive-thru moonshine dispensaries and I knew a drive-thru cannabis dealer in Arizona. (All GOP states.) Idea: combine many such into a one-stop drive-thru source of booze, drugs (including STD meds), snacks, weapons, pr0n, hookers (all persuasions), BDSM gear -- and abortions! Yeah, it's a freedom thing!

[Note: If embryos are people then we better start taxing them.]

PS: As for mustangs and burros, they're like fish heads. Eat them up, yum.

 

[mark_j]

Not for the first time we hear proposals to cull mustangs can anyone or organisation shed any light on this . Truth or rumour???
From the outside it seems that with a little thought this could be avoided. To an outsider and horse lover like me it seems a very extreme action
We have a similar situation in Australia with our brumbies ( wild horses ) whose numbers are increasing .

Here's probably about as good of a place to start as anything else..

Link to BLM site.. National Wild Horse and Burro Program

It contains the official BLM policy concerning wild horse management and a host of other useful information.

As a part of the same site is this section.. Myths and Facts

Whether or not you buy the governments "official" position or not is up to you. Personally I think the BLM may have the best intentions but like any other goverment program the actual methodology of implementing those intentions may be questionable.

On the other side there is this Google search BLM Horse Controversies which will yield a wealth of information ranging from actual decades long studies of herd management to hit pieces from complete whack jobs..

The issue here is whether you want to go into the rat hole of various groups and organizations who may or may not have political agendas that have no basis in fact.

The difficulty is deciding which is which..

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Thanks for yet another interesting angle .
It's an amazing thing that these animals are not native species and as such do need effective controls to make sure some sort of balance can be maintained.
The fine question is how to do this in a cost effective manner .
To further complicate things in Australia we also have ( feral ) wild camels in the Northern Territory which are increasing in numbers and are presently being quietly culled for the same reason .

Camels.

They tried to introduce them here too, but I don't think it took.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Now, the Missouri Department of Conservation is trying to reintroduce wapiti here.

But they have no natural predators left.

You know what an elk does to a car?

​

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm kind of amazed that someone from Australia would give this a second thought. Australia is the literal textbook example of not only why non-native species should not be brought into an area but if by some act of god you can wipe them out you really should. I mean it's not just horses and camels and cats. They have a goddamn rabbit epidemic. Pretty sure they got some strange kind of frog or toad also.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I'm kind of amazed that someone from Australia would give this a second thought. Australia is the literal textbook example of not only why non-native species should not be brought into an area but if by some act of god you can wipe them out you really should. I mean it's not just horses and camels and cats. They have a goddamn rabbit epidemic. Pretty sure they got some strange kind of frog or toad also.

And these nasty pale skinned hairless apes. Introduction of invasive species occurred early in Australian settlement. Blame the Poms not the Aussies.

Lack of natural predators and bleeding hearts/eyes over starving animals is the big issue. In nature starvation and predation are all common occurrences.

Reintroducing elk to Yellowstone improved the parks health and diversity. But it required the introduction of wolves to control elk populations.

Unfortunately humans are very jealous of our place atop the food chain and prefer not to have apex predators competing with us. Best to hunt or cull.

Personally I prefer the introduction of predators. More natural.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

And these nasty pale skinned hairless apes. Introduction of invasive species occurred early in Australian settlement. Blame the Poms not the Aussies.

Lack of natural predators and bleeding hearts/eyes over starving animals is the big issue. In nature starvation and predation are all common occurrences.

Reintroducing elk to Yellowstone improved the parks health and diversity. But it required the introduction of wolves to control elk populations.

Unfortunately humans are very jealous of our place atop the food chain and prefer not to have apex predators competing with us. Best to hunt or cull.

Personally I prefer the introduction of predators. More natural.

Are we speaking of Boguns in flannel?

 

[ishtat]

I'm kind of amazed that someone from Australia would give this a second thought. Australia is the literal textbook example of not only why non-native species should not be brought into an area but if by some act of god you can wipe them out you really should. I mean it's not just horses and camels and cats. They have a goddamn rabbit epidemic. Pretty sure they got some strange kind of frog or toad also.

Feral animals in Australia.

Feral Cane Toads 100 million (Poisonous)
Feral pigs 25 million
Feral Cats 80 million
Feral goats 10 million
Feral Camels 1 million
Feral Donkeys 4 million
Feral Horses 3 million
Feral (wild dogs - not dingos) 3 million
Rabbits - God might know
Foxes 10 million
Australians 24 million. (Americans 150,000)

Source - various federal and state government stats. These are all estimates and the few scientific surveys always show higher numbers. Cats are the worst, and have caused the extinction of more species than any other animal.

There is a slaughterhouse at Peterborough in South Australia which used to slaughter about 150,000, wild horses a year for export to Belgium and Germany.
Eating horse meat is illegal in most Australian states but we can kill and export their products.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We have a feral pig problem here too.



Right now the big debate is hunting over trapping and trapping seems to be winning.

They die all the same, but trapping is supposed to make them less skittish...

Makes good jerky though.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"Rabbits - God might know"

Or Fibonacci

 

[Weird Harold]

You know what an elk does to a car?

My uncle used to drive his to BPOE meetings.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I remember cattle getting loose. Every home for miles started ringing their neighbours to warn them. Hit a steer on a back road at night and it might be a few hours until someone came along. A white-tailed deer will wreck a car if it comes over the hood. Elk and moose tall enough they always come over the hood. I suspect horses too.

Invasive species are an issue world-wide. Canada and China have exchanged bugs which eat native trees and have no local predators. In Spain native crayfish have been pushed out by NA crayfish. Zebra mussels, sea lamprey, gobies and alewives have all radically effected the greatest freshwater system on the planet. Lampreys and alewives are due to canal system bypassing Lachine rapids at Montreal and the Love Canal connecting the Hudson to the Great Lakes. The others from freighters dumping ballast water. A spiny water flea is here too. Run into those trolling and you have to reel in and reset.

No pig problem yet. SW Ontario too heavily populated and hunted. I suspect the rest of the country may have too harsh of winters for them to survive.

If all domestic cats ate was European sparrows they would be a good thing around here. All cats that roam outside should be belled and declawed. One of nature's best killers.

You have a feral cat problem? Bring in coyotes. They sure as heck work inside urban or suburban areas.

To control horse population would require wolves in open areas or cougars in wooded areas. The problem with letting them just naturally starve is they do major damage to eco-systems already stressed by human encroachment. We want to protect wild horses and the few areas of wild prairie left. Probably can't do both.

Watched a program which explained that predators keep herd animals moving. Stops them from turning water systems into mud wallows, spreads manure and stops over grazing. Before |Europeans showed up the Plains was black with buffalo herds, churned up by their hooves, cropped short and fertilized. Healthy, healthy, healthy environment.

An article I read says invasive species can't get a foothold in an environment not already stressed.

 

[Saint Peter]

This is the worst Mustang jerky I have ever had.

 

[snugglestruggle]

It's the BLM doing the dirty work for the greedy ranchers, who btw covet the grazing lands that congress set aside for the wild Mustangs.

 

[Hypoxia]

I remember cattle getting loose. Every home for miles started ringing their neighbours to warn them. Hit a steer on a back road at night and it might be a few hours until someone came along. A white-tailed deer will wreck a car if it comes over the hood. Elk and moose tall enough they always come over the hood. I suspect horses too.

Driving across Nevada's basin-and-range province exposes one to zillions of suicidal cattle standing in roadways, staring death in the face, chewing their cuds. There's light ones in daytime and dark ones at night. And then the alien mutilations...

But I digress. My partner hit a deer on a mountain highway. Smashed our SUV's grille and didn't do the deer any good. But my mother hit a moving train with her station wagon. That took a bit of doing. Biggest thing I ever hit (other than a redwood tree) was a squirrel. Good thing rain washed the blood off.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Glad I've never had a tree run out on the road in front of me! They wreck cars worse than moose.

Had a friend whose dad died driving a semi when he hit a tree. Now most man made things you hit with a semi truck at any speed get destroyed. 35 years later this tree doesn't even show a wound in the bark. I think it is an oak tree. Was not a huge tree when the truck hit it. Strong thinks trees!

Probably why stereotypical cowboy/western trucks with lots of floodlights on brush and roll guards in open range country.

Only tree I ever hit was the Christmas tree start lights at the local dragstrip.

 

[Hypoxia]

Glad I've never had a tree run out on the road in front of me! They wreck cars worse than moose.

Only time a tree (oak) jumped in front of a car I front-seated was during a careless session of mobile oral sex. Otherwise I back into them.

Trees can be aggressive. Poor old Sonny Bono and his murderous Douglas-fir.

Let's see, where did I almost hit moose? Utah and the Yukon, yeah. Almost got bears in Oregon and Nevada. Almost got a javelina / peccary in Arizona. Nearly got a cop in Los Angeles but that's another story. And there was that swamp creature in the Yucatan.

But now I live at the corner of Deer Trail and Antelope Court. We don't need to drive into them; they infest our mountain meadow. I could feed them some quaaludes and let my son-in-law the former celeb chef cook them up, yum.

And back to culling mustangs. Tromp-loving NRA-dues-paying pig-dorking carnivores should LOVE to eat roasted mustang meat. Seared, of course.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Never tried it but eating horsemeat taboo is just cultural. Anthromorphizing horses. Just like dogs. No eating intelligent social animals with big soft eyes.

 

[Sean Renaud]

-snip-​

An article I read says invasive species can't get a foothold in an environment not already stressed.

I doubt there is any place on earth we could accurately test that particular theory especially since "stressed" likely has no true definition. The thing is that not every transplanted species can survive in a given environment. Australia is at a disadvantage. If you look into paleontology at all you can read up on when South and North America collided. Bottom line birds and marsupials do not compete with placental mammals pretty much ever and that was before humans were messing around.

 

[thør]

This is the worst Mustang jerky I have ever had.

Prolly a Mustang II..