Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters in Oregon

[IrezumiKiss]

So why was is this outsider from Arizona suddenly a hero? There was a lot of valid criticism about outsiders stirring up things in Ferguson, but now the same people who complained bitterly about outside agitators in Missouri are lionizing these outsiders who came to Oregon to do just that.

Just wondering where the logic went.

Oh, you know where it went. And even why it was allowed the chance to get there in the first place.

In the context light of Ferguson, not a gott-damn thing about this Oregon bullshit surprises those who've been woke.

http://media3.onsugar.com/files/2013/08/01/982/n/1922398/141c4caa45bc990d_Obama-1-buzzfeed.xxxlarge/i/Epic-Eyebrow-Raise.gif

 

[OjosMojo]

So why was is this outsider from Arizona suddenly a hero?

Can't say I've read every post in this thread thoroughly, but it seems like you are the very first one to "suddenly" make Finicum "a hero".

Why don't you answer your own question about your own fabrication?

So There was a lot of valid criticism about outsiders stirring up things in Ferguson, but now the same people who complained bitterly about outside agitators in Missouri are lionizing these outsiders who came to Oregon to do just that.

Your juvenile generalizations are pathetic; surely when you refer to "the same people", you can only be thinking of posters here that you imagine that applies to (since you can't possibly be posting about anyone else so generally).

So: why don't you name those posters who - and I quote you exactly - "are lionizing these outsiders"?

If you can't do that, at least tell us why you need to keep pulling shit out of your ass.

Just wondering where the logic went.

Bend over, put your head between your legs, look up your anus...

...and shout, EUREKA!

Finicum's shooting does share a commonality with Ferguson and Cleveland, though, in that the police action shooting of he, Brown, and Tamir Rice are all justifiable as far as statute law is concerned.



Now, why don't you and your fellow bigoted/racist piece of shit progressive GB pals admit that fact of life...

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Jihadi LaVoy got what armed terrorists get ... shot.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Jihadi LaVoy got what armed terrorists get ... shot.

He truly had nothing left to live for. He had nothing to lose since the dastardly federal government took away his livelihood (using foster children as ranch hands).

He was being paid $100K+ a year to raise foster children.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Here's the 26:28 official FBI-released video of the incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

You can see the white Finicum vehicle stops @ about :50 into it in response to the law's attempt to pull him over; Finicum and the other occupants stay in the vehicle and the law does not advance - this the way the situation stays for roughly the next 7 minutes until, @ about the videos 8:15 mark, Finicum decides to take off.

Ride along between the wheel as Finicum for a minute as you steer away down straights and through curves and then, out of nowhere in the middle of a curve (where no sane person would set up a "roadblock"), while you're still at speed, you instantly encounter vehicles blocking the road (9:13 in the video)...

...you're driving - what's your natural reaction?

The families of those law enforcement officers should be thanking Finicum for swerving instantly as he did instead of plowing into them like he would have if he was intent on doing any damage at all.

Finicum's vehicle comes to a stop in the snow @ 9:18 and by 9:21 he's out of his vehicle with both hands high in the air with the feds having him fully in their gun sights.

http://tftppull.freethoughtllc.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-shooting.jpg

Then at about 9:29, another figure appears to Finicum's left and shoots Finicum dead at 9:33 - that figure was quite obviously pre-positioned in the tree line 25-30 yards from the "roadblock".

Finicum was renowned for carrying a rifle and his weapon holstered on his right hip, and what makes me highly doubt the FBI's scenario of the shoot is 1) they weren't the ones to shoot him, even though they had him totally covered, and 2) their "version" is that Finicum had a 9mm in his "jacket pocket"...

I know of absolutely no one besides a total amateur (or an FBI scenerio) who carries a 9mm in their "jacket pocket" - Finicum most assuredly never did.

Instead, instinctively swerving to avoid the ambush and saving lives, instantly emerging from his vehicle with hands fully up, the feds with him dead to rights in their sights, I like to imagine him reaching for what was more logically inside his jacket pocket: a personal copy of the Constitution to hold up as his defensive weapon for dramatic effect.

And that's the FBI's fault: if they would've just reported Finicum was reaching inside his jacket for a shoulder holstered weapon, I could've have easily seen that. But "jacket pocket"?

Nope. No way.

Congratulations Luke!!!

You are now as retarded as the idiots that bitched about Ferguson. You join the hands up crowd, the lefties that made ridiculous excuses, the bystanders who hated the law so much they gave fake testimony.

Law enforcement puts their lives on the line everyday. They spend everyday dealing with the scum of the earth. When you act like a idiot, a dangerous idiot, you do not get the benefit of doubt. You do not deserve the benefit of doubt, and we owe it to law enforcement to make sure that protecting their own lives is the number one priority.

You should complete the circle of stupid now. Create a idiot ranchers lives matter movement!!

Then you can be just as racist as those black lives matter fools.

 

[Aglaopheme]

complete the circle of stupid now. Create a idiot!!

Yeah..

 

[Disgustipated]

Yeah..

The sad thing is he actually edited that mess.

 

[Aglaopheme]

The sad thing is he actually edited that mess.

I'm not getting sadness. Hilarity? Yes.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Law enforcement puts their lives on the line everyday. They spend everyday dealing with the scum of the earth.

VatAss is a #CopSucker

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm not getting sadness. Hilarity? Yes.

I guess you're right. Let's all laugh at the schmuck

 

[OjosMojo]

...

I understand in the 1+1=3 world your pops passed on in you, you find it impossible to consider any thought processes other than your bigoted, single synapse own, let alone the multi-lane mental processes of one of the greatest original thinkers in GB history.

So here, frat boy - allow me to succinctly sum-up for your obviously pickled and mostly empty bucket:

Finicum's shooting does share a commonality with Ferguson and Cleveland, though, in that the police action shooting of he, Brown, and Tamir Rice are all justifiable as far as statute law is concerned.

When I see cops instantly shoot because they're more afraid of a 15-year-old with a toy gun, or a teenager bigger than them, or an old man with his hands up - ie, more concerned with protecting their own lives than protecting citizens' lives, as they're specifically charged to do - wannabe badass but actual pussies like you always come instantly to mind.

Now, being such a self-desperately self-promoted and self-proclaimed arms wannabe expert, try to answer the pertinent question:

For what feasible reason in the entire universe would any individual who has decades of open and concealed carry practical experience ever carry a 9mm in his "jacket pocket"?

I only ask you because your particular dumb ass might be perfectly equipped to come up with a reason...

...less the feasible, of course.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I understand in the 1+1=3 world your pops passed on in you, you find it impossible to consider any thought processes other than your bigoted, single synapse own, let alone the multi-lane mental processes of one of the greatest original thinkers in GB history.

So here, frat boy - allow me to succinctly sum-up for your obviously pickled and mostly empty bucket:



When I see cops instantly shoot because they're more afraid of a 15-year-old with a toy gun, or a teenager bigger than them, or an old man with his hands up - ie, more concerned with protecting their own lives than protecting citizens' lives, as they're specifically charged to do - wannabe badass but actual pussies like you always come instantly to mind.

Now, being such a self-desperately self-promoted and self-proclaimed arms wannabe expert, try to answer the pertinent question:

For what feasible reason in the entire universe would any individual who has decades of open and concealed carry practical experience ever carry a 9mm in his "jacket pocket"?

I only ask you because your particular dumb ass might be perfectly equipped to come up with a reason...

...less the feasible, of course.

What leads you to believe that Finnicum was a liar?

 

[RoryN]

Please let me know when / if they raid this place.

I've got my live feeds and popcorn ready.

 

[snugglestruggle]

I know how to dress for winter in Oregon. That photo of him is not how he was dressed when he was shot.

I posted that photo because it was large enough to show he had both a shoulder rig and a belt level holster rig for his 2 pistols. People who are going to carry a sidearm on a regular basis take the time to find a comfortable rig as well as functional one. Winter has nothing to do with it since a jacket would go over either carry choice.

Shoving a pistol into a pocket for quick draw or easy access is a ludicris notion. He would have been better off leaving it on the seat besides him if easy access was the concern.

Did the FBI say he was going for his pocket? I didn't catch that. All I said was that his hands came partway down more than once, and his hand appeared to stray toward his jacket. Since both of his guns (assuming he was wearing them as in the photo) would have been under his jacket, that's relevant. I can't say for sure, though, that his hands were going for his jacket. It just appeared so to me. For certain his hands were not kept high up all the time.

I don't think the video is all that telling either way.

Regardless, he was involved in criminal activity and didn't follow instructions when arrested. That's not a smart thing to do when you're surrounded by people with badges and guns. Especially when they KNOW you are armed and have already expressed a willingness to die rather than be arrested. Which is why I told my little tale about my encounter with people with badges and guns. I'm here to tell that tale because I wasn't stupid enough to not do what they said.

Reuter,s FBI says Finicum reaching for his pocket

Did he have a gun in his pocket? under his jacket? up his ass? I think the guy wanted to be a martyr but IMO unless he pulled a gun, they shouldn't have shot him. FFS there were enough red dots trained on him so it was not like he was going to all Han Solo shooting Greedo in the Cantina bar.

There is just so much wrong with the way this whole thing was handled (Rancher/ Militia, BLM, FBI).

The Irony is people scream about cops unjustifiably shooting people for moving their hands towards their body when told not to (like they are going to pull out a gun) but in this case it was ok to shoot.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

A known-to-be-armed terrorist with a publicly expressed death wish who just fled a traffic stop and crashed at a barricade who makes furtive movements got his wish.

 

[phrodeau]

I posted that photo because it was large enough to show he had both a shoulder rig and a belt level holster rig for his 2 pistols. People who are going to carry a sidearm on a regular basis take the time to find a comfortable rig as well as functional one. Winter has nothing to do with it since a jacket would go over either carry choice.

Shoving a pistol into a pocket for quick draw or easy access is a ludicris notion. He would have been better off leaving it on the seat besides him if easy access was the concern.



Reuter,s FBI says Finicum reaching for his pocket

Did he have a gun in his pocket? under his jacket? up his ass? I think the guy wanted to be a martyr but IMO unless he pulled a gun, they shouldn't have shot him. FFS there were enough red dots trained on him so it was not like he was going to all Han Solo shooting Greedo in the Cantina bar.

There is just so much wrong with the way this whole thing was handled (Rancher/ Militia, BLM, FBI).

The Irony is people scream about cops unjustifiably shooting people for moving their hands towards their body when told not to (like they are going to pull out a gun) but in this case it was ok to shoot.

From the official press statement, found here: https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi....ation-at-the-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge

On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket.

Now, you may think that the FBI is lying and some agent planted the weapon on him. I suppose it's possible. But none of the witnesses report seeing anything like that, or are casting doubt on the official statement like you seem to be.

 

[snugglestruggle]

A known-to-be-armed terrorist with a publicly expressed death wish who just fled a traffic stop and crashed at a barricade who makes furtive movements got his wish.

What made him a Terrorist, Occupying that building? How many car bombs did he set off? How many people did he kill? ZERO.

It's true he wanted to "die for the cause" which would make him a martyr but not all martyrs are terrorists. Some of them are just STUPID.

Your position that he was a terrorist is undermined by the fact that he deliberately swerved his vehicle into the snowbank in order to avoid hitting the roadblock. After all a terrorist & martyr would gladly have crashed his vehicle into the roadblock to kill as many oppressive government agents he could, while martyring the other people in his vehicle. Everybody knows with terrorists, it's the body count that matters.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

What made him a Terrorist, Occupying that building? How many car bombs did he set off? How many people did he kill? ZERO.

It's true he wanted to "die for the cause" which would make him a martyr but not all martyrs are terrorists. Some of them are just STUPID.

Your position that he was a terrorist is undermined by the fact that he deliberately swerved his vehicle into the snowbank in order to avoid hitting the roadblock. After all a terrorist & martyr would gladly have crashed his vehicle into the roadblock to kill as many oppressive government agents he could, while martyring the other people in his vehicle. Everybody knows with terrorists, it's the body count that matters.

I think what made him a terrorist was that he fit the definition of what a terrorist is.

 

[snugglestruggle]

From the official press statement, found here: https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi....ation-at-the-malheur-national-wildlife-refugeNow, you may think that the FBI is lying and some agent planted the weapon on him. I suppose it's possible. But none of the witnesses report seeing anything like that, or are casting doubt on the official statement like you seem to be.

I seldom believe the first accounts of anything that is reported because there is always a rush to be the first to break a story, which often leads to inaccurate info being put out.

Secondly, I've watched a slowed down version of his shooting very carefully several times. He was right handed and we're supposed to believe he put a gun in his left jacket pocket to so he could draw it? The only way that would make sense is if his jacket had an inside pocket on the left side where the gun be would resting similar to his shoulder rig.

Finicum shooting Slow mo

If the gun was in an outside pocket on the left then Id say it was a plant because it makes absolutely no sense from a carry/draw perspective. Either way it's a moot point though it's interesting to dissect.

 

[snugglestruggle]

I think what made him a terrorist was that he fit the definition of what a terrorist is.

What violence did he commit? Trespassing?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

What violence did he commit? Trespassing?

One doesn't have to do something violent to be a terrorist.

 

[snugglestruggle]

One doesn't have to do something violent to be a terrorist.

Actually you do.

Ter·ror·ist
noun: terrorist; plural noun: terrorists

a person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.


ter·ror·ism

noun: terrorism
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Actually you do.

Ter·ror·ist
noun: terrorist; plural noun: terrorists

a person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.


ter·ror·ism

noun: terrorism
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Dictionary.com says you're wrong. Sorry.

 

[sigh]

Okay, snuggles, he's not a terrorist. Substitute criminal if that feels better, or I suppose to be PC, we'd better add "alleged".

I find it interesting how you interpret his driving off the road. You say he was trying to avoid a collision with the cars in the roadblock, but a much simpler way to do that would have been to use the brake. He had plenty of time to stop, and the road was clear and dry, but he didn't stop. Rather, it's more likely that he was trying to drive around the roadblock. He'd already sped away from one traffic stop so his modus operandi (if you will) was already established (at least within the context of this event).

And now that I've watched the video again (and again and again) I DO most definitely see him reaching toward the left side of his coat on two occasions. In that case the police should not be required to hold their fire until he pulls a weapon. He'd already threatened to die rather than be caged, and was known to be armed. He twice tried to avoid capture while in his vehicle and when he pulled off the road into the snowbank he narrowly missed hitting an officer who'd jumped out in front of him, which forced him to swerve farther to the left which is when he got stuck in deeper snow. He edged up the confrontation to the max, and then used others to gain his martyrdom. Suicide by police, with a cause.

Sorry, but the more I see it, the more it looks like that to me. Watch this video between the 37 and 43 second marks (or your own slow-mo version if you'd rather). After dropping his arms, he's clearly reaching for the side of his jacket twice, just as the official report says. And yes, the report also said it was an inside pocket on the left side, which as you say is the only way it would make sense.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-fbi-oregon-state-police-finicum-vid-20160128-premiumvideo.html

 

[Disgustipated]

I seldom believe .

What you believe/feel/perceive mean fuck all against the facts.