Manipulating readers - successfully or not?

[legerdemer]

As writers, manipulating our readers is the definition of what we do. We want to pull our readers in and along with our story. Sometimes, we are more and sometimes less successful.

I was reading one of the Winter Holidays contest stories, and this issue came to mind. All writing is subject to this, but I think stories for this contest are particularly vulnerable to some "cheap tricks."

Soooo.... when, as a reader, do you see through the artifice and say, I'm obviously being manipulated? I know I'm being led, but it's a cheap trick. As a writer, that's when we've failed. What manipulative tricks bother you?

Conversely, sometimes the story just sucks you in so subtly and completely that you don't stop to think - you just follow along, happy to get in deeper and deeper. When that happens and I come to the end, I say, "kudos" and "hats off" to the writer. They've done it. I want to write like that!

 

[sr71plt]

What comes to mind--and in TV programs as well as writing--are mysteries, where false suspects are thrown at me clumsily, and I get royally pissed if some necessary clues are held from me until the wrapup. TV programs are even worse than stories, because all you need to know is what guest star makes the most money, and that's the real villain. I combat this in some of my mysteries by making the "suspect" I keep throwing at the reader the one who really did do it (but the motive is usually for a different reason than the reader thinks--again something I've put in front of their face and they discount because of how deeply seated the formula for mysteries is).

 

[SamScribble]

One of the things that better writers tend to do is make you forget that the narrator, the story teller, is actually a writer. In effect, they are saying: ‘Hey, don’t worry about me; I’m just telling you what happened.’

I think it’s when the writer allows himself/herself to be seen as an overt manipulator, a clumsy orderer of events, a selective revealer of aspects of characters, that many readers feel that some unwritten rule has been broken.

And, yes, I agree with Pilot: TV shows are among the worst offenders. I watched a two-hour show recently in which the baddy didn’t appear until the last 20 minutes. On the basis of the first three-quarters of the show, the audience had absolutely no way of knowing ‘who done it’.

 

[Learin]

As writers, manipulating our readers is the definition of what we do. We want to pull our readers in and along with our story. Sometimes, we are more and sometimes less successful.

I was reading one of the Winter Holidays contest stories, and this issue came to mind. All writing is subject to this, but I think stories for this contest are particularly vulnerable to some "cheap tricks."

Soooo.... when, as a reader, do you see through the artifice and say, I'm obviously being manipulated? I know I'm being led, but it's a cheap trick. As a writer, that's when we've failed. What manipulative tricks bother you?

Conversely, sometimes the story just sucks you in so subtly and completely that you don't stop to think - you just follow along, happy to get in deeper and deeper. When that happens and I come to the end, I say, "kudos" and "hats off" to the writer. They've done it. I want to write like that!

Manipulation is a skill. And like any other skill, not everyone is a master at it. I've read hundreds of books, but felt that only a few authors have that "skill". The plot itself may be engrossing, but the story fails to capture a reader's imagination.

As for hating manipulation, I absolutely abhor stories (usually Romance) that clearly don't define how the characters fall in love. One common line used is "She felt a strange attraction towards him", and that is a HUGE turn-off for me. It's quite common, in here or in published books. I stop reading after that point, when the story usually descends to the same old formulaic stuff. It's boring redefined.


Speaking of a free example,

Have you read Pacofear's "Macallan Promises"? As soon as the tale ends, the author puts a not-so-subtle request to hit a 5 star on his story.

The funny thing is, I did it.

I was so engrossed with that story, I just got carried away with that small command. I realised what I did only after I closed the page. I obviously don't speak for other readers, but that was definitely a smooth, manipulative way to ensure that the readers vote on your story. Also, IMO, it depends on how the author pens his/her request. I assume a simple, cute request works on most part than begging/grovelling/ordering the readers to click a 5 star.

 

[HeyAll]

As for hating manipulation, I absolutely abhor stories (usually Romance) that clearly don't define how the characters fall in love. One common line used is "She felt a strange attraction towards him", and that is a HUGE turn-off for me. It's quite common, in here or in published books. I stop reading after that point, when the story usually descends to the same old formulaic stuff. It's boring redefined.


.

What should be done instead of that?

 

[HandsInTheDark]

As writers, manipulating our readers is the definition of what we do. We want to pull our readers in and along with our story.

Not how I see it. I want to create a well crafted tale. Readers? What are those? Yeah, by putting it here I might get a bunch of reads but those people are largely illusory. If my writing pulls at me, I figure it will affect some of them, whoever or whatever they are.

I know a definition of good writing is work in which the author refines himself out of existence; but I like the definition of good tale as one doesn't admit anyone is reading it. It exists for itself, because it has to. If you find it and like it, yay.

Maybe this is why I rarely finish other people's stories these days. If I feel like I'm being manipulated I move on. (Worth noting I basically gave up on TV some years ago, and have serious issues with many forms of advertising.)

An interesting example of what I think of as a good story in this regard: Engine Summer. It's a story that doesn't give a damn about the reader, and the effect is intense and devastating. You're left to work out meanings and implications as best you can, only to have your efforts stepped on by the ending. It's a very effective piece of writing.

 

[TxRad]

For my stories here, I don't worry about manipulating the reader. I write what i want to write and if they read it and like it, that's their problem.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Readers are stoopid shits. I make sure they know it from word one. Manipulation implies they matter and are worthy of influence. Theyre the mouth breathers attracted to every 911 event to gawk and say shit like...uh oh. My stories are beacons set in the midst of monkeys, as in 2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypEaGQb6dJk

 

[Learin]

What should be done instead of that?

Well, instead of rubbing the attraction on my face, a decent Romance should expand more on the feelings and interactions. For me, the 'how' is more important than the 'what' and 'when'. Romance is all about the chase. Everything before and after that is just....filler material.

When an author uses a line like that, it implies laziness or a serious lack of imagination.

Or both.

 

[lovecraft68]

Not sure if its the same thing, but every category has its 'sweet spots' the things that if an author in that category was to say "Want to get high marks in group? Then this is what you do"

Now I have no issue with stories that cater to a certain readership, I think we all do that sometimes, its just the level of. When I read a story and it starts one way then all of a sudden its 'why is that here?" and 'that' is one of those I'm putting this here because I know the crowd likes this, then I feel played. I feel as if the author isn't trying to tell me their story, but the one they think I want.

In a sense I don't blame them, its been discussed here it seems the readership will eat the same meal every day and only complain when given something different. I don't fault anyone for pandering to the readership, but I will be put off if the story showed a lot of promise and then takes a left turn something just tossed in for a quick "ohhhh"

IN my incest how to, I of course talk about what goes over well there, but also mention these are popular ideas and that one should still write their story their way. There is a fine line between using some proven methods at times and just writing the same ABC stories over and over.

So when I find one that starts out with the promise to be different then get ABC forced into it, I feel the author now isn't telling me there story they're trying to play me.

As far as other manipulations....if I do it I'm not aware of it. Honestly I just write and what comes out comes out.

I've had feedback where people who sound like they teach writing course will praise me for doing this and that and its incredible how you managed to...and on and on and I'm like "Um, sure, I just wrote a story' so anything I 'accomplish' most likely is unintentional.

The only one that comes to mind is my story Every Dog has its day. I made it obvious who the killer was. I did this to get the reader to think 'oh, I know who it is' and feel clever and read with a smile on their face 'we got you, LC. you're not fooling me'

Then at the end, yes they were the killer, but another character revealed a huge twist that very few saw coming, so it was writer slight of hand, watch my right while I do something with my left, but that's as clsoe as I think I've gotten to trying to mislead a reader.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

In writing, as in any other art form, the artist does not manipulate the reader -- he or she moves the reader. To use a sexual analogy, always a helpful tack here, it is like potent lovemaking. The author is in love with his or her subject, and communicates that passion to the reader in an artful, creative, moving way. There is composition involved; the author wants to guide the reader to a certain conclusion. I wouldn't use the word "manipulation" to describe this process.

On the other hand (to extend the analogy), there will always be authors who are more coldly calculating, and one encounters this all too often in commercial erotica -- authors who write like over-worked hookers, faking orgasms to keep the customer happy.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

In the 1st grade I learned how things go, in a simple fable a 6th grader read to us about appetite. The sweet prince hoisted his lil nose at all the cakes and pies the royal cook made. The daddy summoned wise men and philosophers, but no one could make the little prince eat (LIT readers). But the royal wood chopper put junior to work and the problem went away.

The same solution works for eating and fucking and reading etc. If the appetite is there she'll fuck and like it. When she hoists her nose she's getting too much.

 

[TxRad]

Or you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, you analogy doesn't work on Lit. There is a glut on everything under the sun. There is something for everyone. Write anything and you'll find an audience. Writing for someone else is just pimping yourself out. You should understand that.

 

[Handley_Page]

What comes to mind--and in TV programs as well as writing--are mysteries, where false suspects are thrown at me clumsily, and I get royally pissed if some necessary clues are held from me until the wrapup.
TV programs are even worse than stories, because all you need to know is what guest star makes the most money, and that's the real villain. .

I hate it when the camera lingers on the most obvious clue, as if the production people are doing it for idiots.

For my stories here, I don't worry about manipulating the reader. I write what i want to write and if they read it and like it, that's their problem.

Amen to that.

 

[legerdemer]

I agree with those of you who said that if it's done right, it doesn't feel like manipulation, it feels inexorable. That was my point. I wanted to see what others thought as well.

I also agree that writers should write what they wish, without regards to their readers - but this is a discussion forum, and this popped into my li'l ole head, and one thing led to another...and, well, here y'all are, giving me your feedback. Thanks!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Thirty years ago I bought a book titled INFLUENCING WITH INTEGRITY by Genie Laborde. Its a how to manual for how to manipulate people.

My first therapist job interview I brought along two dozen Dunkin Donuts and got my interview at 10:30am. I walked into the conference room, put the donuts in front of the panel, and said: IF DONUTS DONT GET ME THE JOB I'M OPEN TO KILLING ANY PATIENTS OR ADMINISTRATORS WHO NEED KILLING, BUT ITS A LIMITED OFFER. I got the job.

When my bosses got married I gave them generous cash gifts. I volunteered to do shit work no others wanted to do. The boss may be fucking the hunk down the hall but when a patient shits in the sink I clean it up with a smile. The boss can get cock anywhere.

 

[MatthewVett]

What comes to mind--and in TV programs as well as writing--are mysteries, where false suspects are thrown at me clumsily, and I get royally pissed if some necessary clues are held from me until the wrapup.

Depending on the type of mystery story, I don't necessarily mind if necessary clues are withheld. Part of that may be because most mysteries I read tend to be older ones, Judge Dee, Dupin, Lupin, Holmes, &c. which tended to be written before rules like that really became common, so that's just what I'm used to. I'm not trying to figure out the mystery before the detective does. I'm just enjoying the story.

 

[rjordan]

As for hating manipulation, I absolutely abhor stories (usually Romance) that clearly don't define how the characters fall in love. One common line used is "She felt a strange attraction towards him", and that is a HUGE turn-off for me. It's quite common, in here or in published books. I stop reading after that point, when the story usually descends to the same old formulaic stuff. It's boring redefined.

It's only happened to me once and I was married to her for over 25 years before she died, but I couldn't tell you how it happened to us. I knew pretty clearly when it happened, (disregarding the initial boner as an indicator). But I couldn't tell you how. I might even have been manipulated.

So are you discounting that "'strange attraction" is a valid sign of falling in love, or are you saying it happens, but it's too convenient for a good story?

rj

ETA: You answered it in post #9

 

[Celedriel]

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