What is Capitalism?

[PoppingTom]

Libertarianism is a system....and depending on what you want out of a 'system' it works just fine.

Where does it work?

AJ said Somalia, but I wouldn't call that "working", it's more "sadly existing".

Yes you do, you defend the social market, you defend economic socialism.

How is it not socialism?

What the fuck is "healthful capitalism".....seriously I'd like you to define that without giving the textbook definition of socialism. I dare you.

So what do you call it when the government tells you how to run your business?

Bad_Doggie answered perfect for me.

Real socialism is made to ignore both the market and the competition. It's state monopolism in any aspect of the market.

Regulations, as a difference, encourage competition and free market, but fight and control the destructive parts of any competition. And since Lance Armstrong, you can't deny competition has destructive parts that need control.

Your government doesn't have any monopoly at all (as far as I know), and fight monopolies. No reason to call it socialist at all. It's quite a capitalist system, with the state as one big actor on the market. But not the only one.

I never said there is no socialism.

It was a question.

How do you call a today existing, working system that is not socialism?

No I'm not responsible for having nearly 5 times the higher crime rate.

Criminals breaking laws are responsible for that.

What inaction on my part is making these people go commit crimes? That's the question loosers can't answer

Right. Thankfuly, I'm no loser.

That topic would make a tread for itself, but to be short: We do something, you do nothing. Our crime rate is 5 times lower than yours. Assuming we have the same criminals: whose fault is the crime rate?

That sucks for you.

It sucks for me that you, the world police, have a weak system?

It's not weak to turn some away after leading the world in charity and aid for the needy for the better part of a century.

It is weak for a system, that was built on immigrants, to feel threaten by the pure existence of a few of them.

Maybe one day your people will know what that's like but you're just not as kind and giving as Americans, and that's a quantifiable, irrefutable fact.

Actually, and especially according to your behavior, we are. If this is a competition in any way, you're really acting like a loser.

I didn't say they were good, I said they were better than with Syria.

But not as good as with Burma?

I'm sorry but Porsche is just not at the top of auto performance these days.....they might be more 'refined' (opinion) but they are not the fastest (fact). Maybe one day they can make it back up to 3rd place.

Yeah, Porsche's not top speed, as top speed means more fuel, and especially Germans care about that.

If calling top speed, Bugatti Veyron is the best, and the Vision Gran Turismo will top it.

I remember Bugatti was bought by VW.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Where does it work?

AJ said Somalia, but I wouldn't call that "working", it's more "sadly existing".

Like I said, depends on what you want out of a system.

I can do WHATEVER the fuck I want there and build my empire however I see fit in one of those places. Can't do that in a socialist state.

Bad_Doggie answered perfect for me.

Real socialism is made to ignore both the market and the competition. It's state monopolism in any aspect of the market.

Regulations, as a difference, encourage competition and free market, but fight and control the destructive parts of any competition. And since Lance Armstrong, you can't deny competition has destructive parts that need control.

Your government doesn't have any monopoly at all (as far as I know), and fight monopolies. No reason to call it socialist at all. It's quite a capitalist system, with the state as one big actor on the market. But not the only one.

So socialism is only when it's an entire market monopoly by the state? LOL you're insane.

And you can't show me a single regulation out there that encourages competition......they don't exist.

It was a question.

How do you call a today existing, working system that is not socialism?

No it wasn't even English, and neither is your second attempt.

Right. Thankfuly, I'm no loser.

That topic would make a tread for itself, but to be short: We do something, you do nothing. Our crime rate is 5 times lower than yours. Assuming we have the same criminals: whose fault is the crime rate?

We don't have the same criminals, demographics, or economic structure, you can't compare them like that.

It sucks for me that you, the world police, have a weak system?

No it sucks you got all those welfare suckers showing up at your doorstep.

It is weak for a system, that was built on immigrants, to feel threaten by the pure existence of a few of them.

Actually, and especially according to your behavior, we are. If this is a competition in any way, you're really acting like a loser.

But not as good as with Burma?

It's not threatened by a few of them.

No you're not, not even close.

Exactly now you're catching on!

Yeah, Porsche's not top speed, as top speed means more fuel, and especially Germans care about that.

If calling top speed, Bugatti Veyron is the best, and the Vision Gran Turismo will top it.

I remember Bugatti was bought by VW.

No the Veyron got it's balls ripped off by the AMS Nissan GTR. And the UGR Lambo/ a 2,400 HP TT ZO6 too......sorry it just can't keep up.

The Audi R8 and the Lambo's that share it's engine/tranny are the fastest thing in Europe/from Germany.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

and yet you will never own a car ... not even one made in China

enjoy, carp boy

Where does it work?

AJ said Somalia, but I wouldn't call that "working", it's more "sadly existing".




Bad_Doggie answered perfect for me.

Real socialism is made to ignore both the market and the competition. It's state monopolism in any aspect of the market.

Regulations, as a difference, encourage competition and free market, but fight and control the destructive parts of any competition. And since Lance Armstrong, you can't deny competition has destructive parts that need control.

Your government doesn't have any monopoly at all (as far as I know), and fight monopolies. No reason to call it socialist at all. It's quite a capitalist system, with the state as one big actor on the market. But not the only one.



It was a question.

How do you call a today existing, working system that is not socialism?



Right. Thankfuly, I'm no loser.

That topic would make a tread for itself, but to be short: We do something, you do nothing. Our crime rate is 5 times lower than yours. Assuming we have the same criminals: whose fault is the crime rate?



It sucks for me that you, the world police, have a weak system?



It is weak for a system, that was built on immigrants, to feel threaten by the pure existence of a few of them.



Actually, and especially according to your behavior, we are. If this is a competition in any way, you're really acting like a loser.



But not as good as with Burma?



Yeah, Porsche's not top speed, as top speed means more fuel, and especially Germans care about that.

If calling top speed, Bugatti Veyron is the best, and the Vision Gran Turismo will top it.

I remember Bugatti was bought by VW.

 

[PoppingTom]

I can do WHATEVER the fuck I want there and build my empire however I see fit in one of those places. Can't do that in a socialist state.

So you're talking about these "one boat, one republic" kind of one person kingdoms like some boat owners in Amsterdam proclaimed?

Germany was once full of these mini princedoms. Thankfully, we got rid of them.

So socialism is only when it's an entire market monopoly by the state? LOL you're insane.

If you look at the likes of North Korea, it isn't that insane.

And you can't show me a single regulation out there that encourages competition......

You're funny. Just like there is a serious competition, f.e. in sports, that isn't regulated. There must be a reason.

No it wasn't even English, and neither is your second attempt.

You can't name a single one. That's what you want me to say.

We don't have the same criminals, demographics, or economic structure, you can't compare them like that.

You said its the criminals fault, now you want to blame demographics or economics ? Well, then, who is to blame for your kind of criminals, demographics or economic structure?

No it sucks you got all those welfare suckers showing up at your doorstep.

Because your system would instantly crash by taking over the year what Munich takes in one day ?

Yeah, that sucks.

It's not threatened by a few of them.

I think I quit playing the moral high horse now. To sum up, there isn't any moral reason to deny Syrian refugees in your country. You don't like them, and a few other bullshit reasons only Americans can understand.

No the Veyron got it's balls ripped off by the AMS Nissan GTR.

OK, you've got a point. Good tuned cars will always be faster than fabricated ones.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Why am I not surprised to learn from his above post that Poppin Tom is a product of the indoctrination of his time in the GDR?

He exists and enjoys his standard of living because West Germans and Americans created the economic condition that weakened the Soviets and allowed his weak-ass brand of Germanic heritage to finally whimper out from under communism.

At least we know the mind of a Merkel voter...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Where does it work?

AJ said Somalia, but I wouldn't call that "working", it's more "sadly existing".
...

You might want to quote that for context.



Unless, of course, stupid is your look...

 

[PoppingTom]

You might want to quote that for context.



Unless, of course, stupid is your look...

Whatever you wanted to tell me, do it after sleeping off.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Whatever you wanted to tell me, do it after sleeping off.

Okay. I did not say Somalia was "Liberalism." I did mention it, but in what context?

Are you that fucking lazy, or is it that late in your time zone and the schnapps is flowing?

 

[BotanyBoy]

So you're talking about these "one boat, one republic" kind of one person kingdoms like some boat owners in Amsterdam proclaimed?

Germany was once full of these mini princedoms. Thankfully, we got rid of them.

No, I'm talking about most 3rd world holes.....

If you look at the likes of North Korea, it isn't that insane.

Given that's your baseline reference point, my statement stands, you're insane.

You're funny. Just like there is a serious competition, f.e. in sports, that isn't regulated. There must be a reason.

None of those regulations promote competition...not even in sports.

You can't name a single one. That's what you want me to say.

A single what?

No I want you to speak in complete sentences.

You said its the criminals fault, now you want to blame demographics or economics ? Well, then, who is to blame for your kind of criminals, demographics or economic structure?

You're the one who brought up "Assuming we have the same criminals" not me.

No I'm not blaming demographics or economics, the blame is still with the individual committing the crime I'm just pointing out your assumptions are bullshit.

Because your system would instantly crash by taking over the year what Munich takes in one day ?

Yeah, that sucks.

No it sucks you got all those welfare suckers showing up at your doorstep.

Oh man your government is going to take money from you, so some Syrian can stay home all day fucking his new German girlfriend...that's gotta sting.

I think I quit playing the moral high horse now. To sum up, there isn't any moral reason to deny Syrian refugees in your country. You don't like them, and a few other bullshit reasons only Americans can understand.

Not really you haven't.....there is no moral reason to accept them either.

Do we need any other reason?

 

[PoppingTom]

No, I'm talking about most 3rd world holes.....

Most 3rd world holes are heavy socialist.

Given that's your baseline reference point, my statement stands, you're insane.

OK, it's insane to call North Korea socialist. I don't need to understand this.

None of those regulations promote competition...not even in sports.

You're like a little kid that says "No" to anything.

No I want you to speak in complete sentences.

You can't name a single, today's existing, and working system, that is not socialism.

But keep on pretending you're not understand.

No I'm not blaming demographics or economics, the blame is still with the individual committing the crime ......

OK, following this, lets assume, criminals become criminals out of the blue, out of no circumstances.

Now, why exactly do they become your kind of criminals, not ours?

And why is it happen 5 times more in your country than ours?

Oh man your government is going to take money from you, so some Syrian can stay home all day fucking his new German girlfriend...that's gotta sting.

So you're no racist? Exchange Syrian with negro and German with white, and tell me how you call this.

there is no moral reason to accept them either.

As you don't give a shit about morals, you don't give a shit about moral reasons. Any other reasons you've mentioned (that are of so much more importance to your country) are just fear, paranoia or illiterate reasons.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Most 3rd world holes are heavy socialist.

Maybe in name, but in reality they are tribal/anarchy/extremely libertarian all occurring during changes of generally militant/warlord style dictatorships.

If you can be the warlord, the country is yours.

OK, it's insane to call North Korea socialist. I don't need to understand this.

No it's insane to use it as the standard if not exclusive definition of socialism.

You're like a little kid that says "No" to anything.

Then say something that isn't absurd.....show me a regulation that promotes competition in markets. You claimed they exist now prove it, admit you were full of shit or STFU and sniff your own farts some more.

You can't name a single, today's existing, and working system, that is not socialism.

But keep on pretending you're not understand.

OMG A COMPLETE SENTENCE HE DID IT!!

Like I said it depends on what you want out of a system.

If you want to be left alone to do whatever the fuck you want Afghanistan is great...so is Somalia and a whole host of other countries where whatever you want is you'rs if you can take it.

OK, following this, lets assume, criminals become criminals out of the blue, out of no circumstances.

Now, why exactly do they become your kind of criminals, not ours?

And why is it happen 5 times more in your country than ours?

You keep trying to equate reasons with responsibility.

IDK you tell me you're the one who came up with the 'yours' and 'ours' concept...to me a criminal is a criminal. There are those that knowingly break the law and ignorantly break the law but either way they are responsible for the actions they CHOSE.

I'm sure there are all kinds of reasons you can tie in.

So you're no racist? Exchange Syrian with negro and German with white, and tell me how you call this.

Except Syrian and German are nationalities, not races.

You can say I'm a nationalist!! But the label of racist simply doesn't hold SORRY! try again.

As you don't give a shit about morals, you don't give a shit about moral reasons.

I care about morals, that's why I want you to explain to me why America has a moral obligation that Germany does not.

Any other reasons you've mentioned (that are of so much more importance to your country) are just fear, paranoia or illiterate reasons.

Nope......you wish they were those things but they are all about as pragmatic as it gets.

 

[PoppingTom]

Maybe in name, but in reality they are tribal/anarchy/extremely libertarian all occurring during changes of generally militant/warlord style dictatorships.

I doubt one of these countries is in any way libertarian, and anarchism isn't a state's form, it's simply another word for war zone.

Well, tribalism. Another big word for everything and nothing.

If you can be the warlord, the country is yours.

Maybe that's your wet dream, but reality is different.

First: forget that you can establish your own tribe and nobody can do harm to you. If you try, not only the weak goverment but the other tribes will kick your ass in no time, too. They're not called lords but warlords, because they're in war with others and can only hold what they've won after the fight.

Second: forget there is no regulation. If you want a truce, you have to compromise with your enemy. And belive me, this is much harder than to compromise with today's US government.

Third: forget warlords are free. They can resist their governments force a bit longer. But abroad, they're not under diplomatic protection, which makes them kind of bird free.

No it's insane to use it as the standard if not exclusive definition of socialism.

You say it's insane because today's North Korea is insane. But what do you think: that North Korea became insane overnight, of no serious reason?

The economic system of North Korea was exactly the common economic system in the former East Bloc states (that were proud to call themselves "socialist"), even in China. And that's the real insane thing on North Korea: they remain in socialism, while China, Russia and the East Bloc states changed to a somewhat capitalist system.

And yes, it feels insane, if you thought that the US is somewhat socialist, to realize North Korea is socialist by the very Wikipedia and Oxford dictionary meaning.

Then say something that isn't absurd.....show me a regulation that promotes competition in markets. You claimed they exist now prove it, ....

I already did it a few times, but let's do it again: any regulation regarding the destruction of monopolies is exactly for doing this: ensure fair competition, thus promote it.

Any monopoly is established for only one reason: to kill any competition. One of the biggest monopolists in America, Rockefeller, said one time, competition is a sin. If we had a free, unregulated market, there would be monopolies in no time. They can only be broken by government.

There was a time when I thought, at least this is something even the most far country bumpkin in America can agree.

OMG A COMPLETE SENTENCE HE DID IT!!

But it seems you havent understood: name that system.

So far: Every country's got a government, every government regulates something, so every country is "socialist" for you, even those you claim to be "tribal".

You keep trying to equate reasons with responsibility.

Not at all. The criminal is responsible for his crime. But you are responsible for the consequences of non-doing. And you're a loser if you blame others and their "responsibility" for your non-doing.

It's all about responsibility. You just imagine anybody's got responsibility but you.

IDK you tell me you're the one who came up with the 'yours' and 'ours' concept...to me a criminal is a criminal. There are those that knowingly break the law and ignorantly break the law but either way they are responsible for the actions they CHOSE.

No, you came up with "you can't equal your criminals with ours".

But let's go with your point. You say, a criminal is a criminal, OK, then, a criminal in Germany is the same as a crinimal in the US. Now, the US criminal does 5 times more knowingly or ignorantly breaking the law then the German one.

Still the same question: whose fault is the difference?

Except Syrian and German are nationalities, not races.

Doesn't change anything. (You really seem to think, racism is about races? No, it's about discrimination of a personal thing you can't change.)

I care about morals, that's why I want you to explain to me why America has a moral obligation that Germany does not.

You're funny. Did I said we doesn't? And by the way, I never called about duty. Other Americans on this board did. If you really cared about morals, you'd see how denying so many Syrians is a really weak and pathetic decision for a country with such a history of immigrants.

It would be more honest to say you don't give a fuck about morals.

Nope......you wish they were those things but they are all about as pragmatic as it gets.

Some call it pragmatism, some call it cronyism. Not the same.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I doubt one of these countries is in any way libertarian, and anarchism isn't a state's form, it's simply another word for war zone.

Well, tribalism. Another big word for everything and nothing.

They are EXTREMELY libertarian....there is NO government regulation. You can seriously do whatever the fuck you want.

Maybe that's your wet dream, but reality is different.

First: forget that you can establish your own tribe and nobody can do harm to you. If you try, not only the weak goverment but the other tribes will kick your ass in no time, too. They're not called lords but warlords, because they're in war with others and can only hold what they've won after the fight.

Who said no one could do harm to you?

Depends on if the weak government or other tribes can fight for shit....

Second: forget there is no regulation. If you want a truce, you have to compromise with your enemy. And belive me, this is much harder than to compromise with today's US government.

No it's not....you go kill the mother fucker and take his shit.

It's really that simple.

Third: forget warlords are free. They can resist their governments force a bit longer. But abroad, they're not under diplomatic protection, which makes them kind of bird free.

So? That doesn't change anything I said.

And yes, it feels insane, if you thought that the US is somewhat socialist, to realize North Korea is socialist by the very Wikipedia and Oxford dictionary meaning.

You mean the definitions you totally disregard? LOL

I already did it a few times, but let's do it again: any regulation regarding the destruction of monopolies is exactly for doing this: ensure fair competition, thus promote it.

Bullshit....it takes away the gold medal, any hope of winning, and thus degrades competition.

But it seems you havent understood: name that system.

So far: Every country's got a government, every government regulates something, so every country is "socialist" for you, even those you claim to be "tribal".

That's right....because by the definitions you earlier rejected then just tried to use, all those governments are socialist whenever they fuck with someone elses business.

But you aree responsible for the consequences of non-doing. And you're a loser if you blame others and their "responsibility" for your non-doing.

It's all about responsibility. You just imagine anybody's got responsibility but you.

No I'm not. That's like saying cops are responsible for murders because they didn't stop them in time. You're full of shit, quit trying to blame everyone but the criminal for the criminals behavior.

No, you came up with "you can't equal your criminals with ours".

But let's go with your point. You say, a criminal is a criminal, OK, then, a criminal in Germany is the same as a crinimal in the US. Now, the US criminal does 5 times more knowingly or ignorantly breaking the law then the German one.

Still the same question: whose fault is the difference?

You tried to compare them first and you're still trying to compare them where I bolded.

The fault is with the criminals day day....what don't you understand about that?

Doesn't change anything. (You really seem to think, racism is about races?

Race is exactly what racism is about.....

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/Submit
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior

No, it's about discrimination of a personal thing you can't change.)

No that's called prejudice or bigotry...

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/04/youre-wrong-gif.gif?gs=a

You're funny. Did I said we doesn't? And by the way, I never called about duty. Other Americans on this board did. If you really cared about morals, you'd see how denying so many Syrians is a really weak and pathetic decision for a country with such a history of immigrants.

It would be more honest to say you don't give a fuck about morals.

Some call it pragmatism, some call it cronyism. Not the same.

You're argument fails because not all morality is standardized.....I think letting the fucking roaches in is weak and pathetic. And your bleeding heart bullshit concept that we should help the people who hate us is weak and just plain stupid.

No I care about morals, I just don't care about YOUR morals.

Not letting your enemy into your home is not cronyism, it's pragmatism.

The government coming in and saying "tough shit were kicking you out and moving these looser in. Give us your money before you go we have to feed the poor Syrians. " is cronyism.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Okay no, busting monopolies does not take away the Gold, it simply prevents the guy with the Gold from getting the silver, bronze and all the participation ribbons and then falling asleep because he's got all the things.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Okay no, busting monopolies does not take away the Gold, it simply prevents the guy with the Gold from getting the silver, bronze and all the participation ribbons and then falling asleep because he's got all the things.

If you can't be on top what's the point? Government doesn't' even do that these days they just point blank decide who's in business and fuck everyone else who isn't in the cool kids club. So the point is rather moot anyhow....

Popping want's to argue opinions, half of them in total jibberish, I'll write novels every day.

Not like anyone else talks to me.

 

[Sean Renaud]

If you can't be on top what's the point? Government doesn't' even do that these days they just point blank decide who's in business and fuck everyone else who isn't in the cool kids club. So the point is rather moot anyhow....

Popping want's to argue opinions, half of them in total jibberish, I'll write novels every day.

Not like anyone else talks to me.

You ARE on top. You simply can't collect it all and stop actually playing.

Now your right, our government does it really do it much any more but they don't really pick winners and losers. That shit is generally beneath them.

But I wasn't claiming our current laws are sufficient or even properly applied.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You ARE on top.

No, that's only when you're standing over the smoldering remains of the competition. Sharing with others isn't on top.

You simply can't collect it all and stop actually playing.

And that's horrible.

Now your right, our government does it really do it much any more but they don't really pick winners and losers. That shit is generally beneath them.

LMFAO...so then what's with all the exclusive, hyper limited licencing/permitting for anything more lucrative than a lemonade stand? Which needs a few grand worth of regulatory buuuu shit itself...because libhurhul.

 

[Sean Renaud]

No, that's only when you're standing over the smoldering remains of the competition. Sharing with others isn't on top.



And that's horrible.




LMFAO...so then what's with all the exclusive, hyper limited licencing/permitting for anything more lucrative than a lemonade stand? Which needs a few grand worth of regulatory buuuu shit itself...because libhurhul.

When you're standing over the smoldering ruins of your foes the competition has ended. Human beings are not in competition with sabretoothed tigers or dire wolves. Hell save in very specific circumstances we aren't in competition with tigers or wolves or anything but ourselves.

I'm not placing a value judgement for the moment. I DO think competition is good but that's not what the parameters you set. Once you have all the toys and nobody has any the competition has been ended.

The rest of your things don't ACTUALLY have any bearing on your point. First I engaged specifically on monopoly busting not on regulations as a whole. But regulations cannot be discussed as a blanket topic. Different regulations do different things.

You can make a lot of statements about the differences between a good ole street fight where you could pull a knife or have your buddy snipe the other guy from a half mile out, an MMA match where anything you can do works and Marquess of Queensberry boxing but you cannot argue that they are not all competitive. And if what you want tested is singles combat then clearly a street fight is NOT a competition.

When people say that competition is good, what they are generally talking about is the concept that competition drives down prices and up innovation. In a scenario where you have all the things you've got no reason to lower your prices nor to innovate further. (I think our cable companies in particular make a DAMN good case of this but only slightly better than some other industries.)

 

[BotanyBoy]

When you're standing over the smoldering ruins of your foes the competition has ended. Human beings are not in competition with sabretoothed tigers or dire wolves. Hell save in very specific circumstances we aren't in competition with tigers or wolves or anything but ourselves.

I'm not placing a value judgement for the moment. I DO think competition is good but that's not what the parameters you set. Once you have all the toys and nobody has any the competition has been ended.

Yea exactly, you win....that's being #1.

but you cannot argue that they are not all competitive. And if what you want tested is singles combat then clearly a street fight is NOT a competition.

It's true...but you can't argue that the rules encourage it either. I mean you can but it would all just be opinion.

In a scenario where you have all the things you've got no reason to lower your prices nor to innovate further.

But SOMEBODY else will.....someone who's hungry and going for the juggular will put that mother fucker out of bidnizz.

(I think our cable companies in particular make a DAMN good case of this but only slightly better than some other industries.)

The ONLY reason the cable companies are the state assigned communist pieces of shit that they are is because they HIDE behind a bunch of 'regulation' that they paid a politician for. Cable companies right now are a prime example of socialism's dark side.......state assigned billionaires, protected by the same scum bags they bought their licences from. They don't have to give a fuck about the customer, they own a senator.

 

[Sean Renaud]

In a never ending race the guy who is at the front of the pack collecting the first ribbon from each location is still number one. He just has to keep playing.

And yes I can argue that the rules encourage it and specify exactly what kind of competition I would like to see. In the case of boxing I don't want any kicking, biting, outside interference or kicks to the groin.

Somebody else might in many cases they won't or can't for any number of reasons. We saw how monopolies worked in the past. If you own all the iron mines nobody else can compete with your steel because they don't have the raw materials to get into the game. I guess if you REALLY want to pretend that anything is possible you can go all Cool Runnings on me and say it's bullshit when I say a tropical island will not have bobsledding team but c'mon. Kansas doesn't have beach front real estate. Or there is the case of Cable Tv, we have collectively decided we don't want every body who thinks they can run a cable company ripping up all the streets n shit necessary to lay the cables. We just don't. Same goes for water, power, sewage, and streets. True public utilities and ones where while I'd like more tweaks monopolies seem to work reasonably well BUT that's not claiming they are competing because the aren't. They are winning. If I'm not mistaken Salt is also a monopoly as are a few other things. Then you've got your virtual monopolies. Shit like Windows where Windows is so goddamn dominant that over the last decade or so they've had two or three monumental fucks ups and did everybody switch to Linux and Apple? Nope. We politely waited for Microsoft to unfuck itself because frankly we don't have an alternative and tey don't have competition in the REAL sense of the word.

So sure, they own a Senator. But take away their Senators and their representatives and we'd STILL mostly come to the same outcomes because I've got work to go to. You're not gonna block my house for four months everytime some jackass on my block decides he doesn't like Time Warner. (Now gradually internet is chipping away at this but I chose cable because it's a good example.)

Most small guys would never even get to play the game without rules and regulations. I know shit about botany so if you tell me that some guy couldn't get some of your strain and duplicated it given time I'll accept that. But that's not MOST industries. I could copy Harry Potter word for word and if I say owned a publishing company and thus could produce it cheaper than Ms. Rowling she loses on account of being smaller, same goes for any gizmo that can be taken apart and figured out. Trademarks and copyrights ARE government regulation. Sure today they seem to MOSTLY be used by large companies to keep us from sharing their products and protecting their bottom line they were designed to (and do a reasonable job of) protecting us from big fish who we could never realistically hope to fight.

 

[BotanyBoy]

In a never ending race the guy who is at the front of the pack collecting the first ribbon from each location is still number one. He just has to keep playing.

Eh...I like to crush my opponents balls with battle axes.

But for the sake of the economy I understand that history has shown if you let the race finish (pure unadulterated 'capitalism') or totally remove any hope of achievement (pure unadulterated 'socialism') there is no race and everything goes to shit.

So sure, they own a Senator. But take away their Senators and their representatives and we'd STILL mostly come to the same outcomes because I've got work to go to. You're not gonna block my house for four months everytime some jackass on my block decides he doesn't like Time Warner. (Now gradually internet is chipping away at this but I chose cable because it's a good example.)

Sooooo.....why can't I spend a million bucks putting a satellite up in orbit and open start providing service? OH a bunch of uppity socialist fucks just arbitrarily decided "Fuck you botany boy, being a cable company is a bro's only club!! ".

"regulation" lmfao.....

Most small guys would never even get to play the game without rules and regulations. I know shit about botany so if you tell me that some guy couldn't get some of your strain and duplicated it given time I'll accept that. But that's not MOST industries. I could copy Harry Potter word for word and if I say owned a publishing company and thus could produce it cheaper than Ms. Rowling she loses on account of being smaller, same goes for any gizmo that can be taken apart and figured out. Trademarks and copyrights ARE government regulation. Sure today they seem to MOSTLY be used by large companies to keep us from sharing their products and protecting their bottom line they were designed to (and do a reasonable job of) protecting us from big fish who we could never realistically hope to fight.

It's true trademarks/copyrights/patents are regulation. But far more closer to anti theft laws than any of the 'regulation' most people bitch about.

Regulation does have some merit, just like national defense.....but the OVERWHELMING majority of America's current mobsteresque regulators and their alphabet agency thugs are nothing more than a way to scam people out of money at the end of a legal gun.

Like me....I have to be inspected every year, at my expense to make sure I'm not shitting in CA's water supply.

NO PROBLEM!!

Except it's not an inspection to make sure I'm not fucking with the stream/river...

I have FOUR agencies and they all want to get paid to come inspect the same shit over and over again. They inspect this fucker like I'm a god damn ATM or some shit. That ain't regulation...lol....that's crony liburhul bullshit. Next time you want to go buy some organic berries and you think "Holy fuck those are getting spendy!" now you know why liburhul regulation.

I feel HORRIBLE for the folks dependent on weed, going with other crops hoping for a chance to go pro but otherwise just growing my own was the smartest thing I've ever done.

In 2018 CA's either going to not be regulating a god damn thing because grey market went black again and/or the poverty levels in this state are going to fucking skyrocket. CA is literally taking 40BN a year from poor/middle class folks from all over the state and putting it into the hands of a few newly minted billionaires 'because this industry needs to be regulated!'.....socialism....California liberals HATE poor people more than ANYONE.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm not saying you shouldn't crush you're opponent's balls with battle axes. I might question why you keep you weapons in such poor repair that they crush instead of cut though. However my point is once your opponent is bleeding out you can no longer claim to be in a competition.

You have pure unadulterated socialism mistaken for pure unadulterated communism by the way. The government owning all the means of production STILL doesn't prevent competition. At least not any more so than the government owning the local park means the score of your basketball game is rigged.

Because up until yesterday you had to lay cables. I could use water if you prefer. But realistically because you don't have a million dollars and for reasons you accepted above will never have it because the guy who won won and stopped you. I highly doubt any bunch of uppity socialists would stop you from launching a satelite if you had the means.

Though since there IS a finite spectrum of energy you still could very well lose. The reason televisions used to start at channel 2 is because TV was thought of as a fad and they gave the space to radio. And the reason why tv broadcasts were ended was to give mroe room to cell phone providers. So that's actually a VERY good example of a place where you could simply have one winner FOREVER because at least as far as current technology goes there is a finite spectrum we can access.

It's true trademarks/copyrights/patents are regulation.

People don't bitch about it because they agree with it, not because it's theft. If I can do it BETTER than you and CHEAPER than you the laws of economics essentially state that I should do it INSTEAD of you. In the vast majority of competitions learning from you opponents is a key part of it. Nobody ever saw someone win a football game with a new play and said "Wow, I'll never try that!" (Well maybe if it only worked because the plan was so pants on head retarded that it only worked because nobody would ever try it but you know what I mean.) You learn, you mimic and you improve. However in business this is very specifically prohibited because superior resources be it access to mass production or better distrubition is going to win nine times out of ten.

That's one of the major "problems" in capitalism and is one we're seeing near it' slogical end points here is that winning=winning. Once you reach critical mass you have to do some seriously stupid shit or someone else something incredibly brilliant to change the landscape.

I'm not defending the majority of regulations. I don't even know what they all are and I've really started to believe that people bitch about them because someone once told them it was evil and they never took the time out to start figure it out for themselves. Regardless I only stated that yes regulations can foster competition, specifically anti-monopoly laws.

You can keep trying to distract me with the fact that leopards have spots. But I didn't say cats have stripes. I said tigers have stripes.

I don't know what precisely you do aside from grow. I trust you're not shitting in the water supply BUT we have to prove that at the very least. Since people have set rivers on fire it's been established that without someone to stop people they will shit in rivers.

As for the rest I'll still be here in 2018. That's not even that far away. I'll lay odds it'll be mostly the same as it is now. Two years even if we get Bernie won't make an impact. You might want to set your sights a little further out but who knows if this place will be here in 2024 when you have a prayer of being correct.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I However my point is once your opponent is bleeding out you can no longer claim to be in a competition.

True.

Though since there IS a finite spectrum of energy

That have a role but it's still socialism when the government is the one arbitrarily deciding who get's to be in the rich cable provider club.

People don't bitch about it because they agree with it, not because it's theft.

Sorry, but when you copy someone else's design/product it's theft no different than plagiarism.

Regardless I only stated that yes regulations can foster competition, specifically anti-monopoly laws.

Fair enough.

I don't know what precisely you do aside from grow.

Consult.....but I make my aggie money with berries and nuts. I get to pay taxes and spend my money like everyone else. Only ganj I grow is my 6 plants in the summer. I get to live the way I do because I hold paper to houses in the bay area and charge yuppies through the fucking nose to trash the place.

I trust you're not shitting in the water supply BUT we have to prove that at the very least. Since people have set rivers on fire it's been established that without someone to stop people they will shit in rivers.

I understand, and nothing about that requires 4 agencies sending several agents out here a half a dozen times a year each. I've never had any violations, 1 agent monthly would save my customers THOUSANDS of dollars and be more than adequate regulation for a farm that's never been anything but above board.

Reality is about 90% of the current regs as they are applied to anyone except uber insano 97,000 acre monsanto super farms are total bullshit....complete fucking scam.

As for the rest I'll still be here in 2018. That's not even that far away.

Yea you will be....because it's not your industry and you have LA to support that. They fucking HATE farmers in LA/SF....HATE HATE HATE farmers with a white searing passion.

I'll lay odds it'll be mostly the same as it is now. Two years even if we get Bernie won't make an impact. You might want to set your sights a little further out but who knows if this place will be here in 2024 when you have a prayer of being correct.

Bernie has nothing to do with it.

Uhhhh no, certain parts of the law take effect 1JAN2016 full enforcement/regulation is scheduled to go into effect 1JAN2018. It's signed...it's already law...CA's 40bn cannabis industry is on death row, 1JAN2018 is the execution date. As it stands now the vast majority of CA's growers will be illegal and again under persecution from the law, because regulation for the sake of fuck those guys just because it feels good. And a hand full of folks from LA/SF are going to be FILTHY fucking rich.....California liberalism!! Gotta love that shit.

I'm hoping to get into it, but I'm not holding my breath....I'm not connected enough with the rich&cool guy clubs in SF/LA to get a guaranteed ride so I'll probably be told point blank to just fuck off. Gotta prep for plan B! Hopefully find a state that doesn't want to regulate me out of a chance for upward mobility just because it gives them a libby boner.

 

[Aella_]

Oh boy, never had to read such long exchanges.
You guys should start collaborating on role-play stories.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Oh boy, never had to read such long exchanges.
You guys should start collaborating on role-play stories.

No one put a gun to your head....you can fuck off whenever you want.


I don't role play....I'm crazy enough thank you.