Link between creativity & mental illness

[LostBabygirl3489]

Do you think it's true that there is a common link between depression and writers? It seems that so many of my favorite writers have killed themselves or have serious depression. I have been writing stories and poems since I was 16 and I also have really bad depression and anxiety. However, I do know that in my case it is also genetics because I have an aunt who had depression and epilepsy and she killed herself. Several people on both sides of my family also suffer from mental illness.

I'm sorry if the post is morose, it's just been on my mind lately and it really feels like a curse that artists have, to be so creative yet have so much hidden pain.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think so.

People who are very creative seem to lack in other ways. many are anti social loners (raises hand) in fact King and others call out how writing is a solitary craft.

That lack can lead to addiction and we all know how many writers were addicted to drugs and booze.

Addiction can lead to depression-or the other way around-and both can lead to suicide.

I guess its a price that's paid when some people have access to parts of the psyche others don't.

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

Yes. To see the flaming that goes on here is to see mental illness in action.

Authors tend to be observers, I think.

Corner people.

Separate from the world around them.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yes. To see the flaming that goes on here is to see mental illness in action.

Authors tend to be observers, I think.

Corner people.

Separate from the world around them.

I like that, corner people....because I always sit in the corner of coffee shops and people watch. I make up plot bunnies for all the couples I see.

I really need more hobbies.

 

[Hypoxia]

We hear about those that are nutz and don't hear about those that ain't.

OR

Everybody is nutz and we try not to notice, but creative folk are public and obvious.

AND

Some of the more psycho cases end up here. Myself probably included. But at least I'm not rude.

 

[TxRad]

Genius and Madness are next door neighbors
And they borrow each others sugar.

 

[LIBBYLOON]

One comes with a spigot, the other doesn't.

 

[legerdemer]

There have been many studies and books written on this topic. There are some convincing links to bipolar illness.

Creativity is a valve that keeps us from killing ourselves, and each other.

 

[Messier82]

and it really feels like a curse that artists have, to be so creative yet have so much hidden pain.

The tortured artist is a bit of a cliche, there's plenty of successful creative people who don't suffer from clinical depression.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Genius and Madness are next door neighbors
And they borrow each others sugar.

Sorry, I don't buy this. It's an idea that was widely promoted in our culture. But I think that genius and creativity can be taught, and there are many examples of fabulously creative people who were also completely stable emotionally and psychologically.

Do what the Humboldt brothers proposed in Germany back in the 1800s -- teach young children multiple foreign and classical languages. Teach them to compose classical music. Get them started on this when they are young, and they will learn to access the part of their minds that can be developed to solve artistic and scientific problems, and to use the imagination productively. You will have more creativity than you know what to do with.

 

[legerdemer]

Sorry, I don't buy this. It's an idea that was widely promoted in our culture. But I think that genius and creativity can be taught, and there are many examples of fabulously creative people who were also completely stable emotionally and psychologically.

Do what the Humboldt brothers proposed in Germany back in the 1800s -- teach young children multiple foreign and classical languages. Teach them to compose classical music. Get them started on this when they are young, and they will learn to access the part of their minds that can be developed to solve artistic and scientific problems, and to use the imagination productively. You will have more creativity than you know what to do with.

I don't think it's a causal relationship but rather a very loose, one-way correlation: there is a slightly increased chance that artists, painters, musicians, writers, etc. have some form of mental illness. As I said in my earlier post, there's slight evidence for bipolar disease. It's controversial not least because of the obvious possibility of pigeon-holing, like "left-handed people are more creative" or "gay men are more artistic."

It's also completely possible that one finds what one looks for. Interesting about the Humboldt brothers - it's a completely personal bias that German education and culture are so good at pigeon-holing Germans into a standard issue box that they need any and every possible means of escaping it. :Wink: :Big Grin:

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I don't think it's a causal relationship but rather a very loose, one-way correlation: there is a slightly increased chance that artists, painters, musicians, writers, etc. have some form of mental illness. As I said in my earlier post, there's slight evidence for bipolar disease. It's controversial not least because of the obvious possibility of pigeon-holing, like "left-handed people are more creative" or "gay men are more artistic."

It's also completely possible that one finds what one looks for. Interesting about the Humboldt brothers - it's a completely personal bias that German education and culture are so good at pigeon-holing Germans into a standard issue box that they need any and every possible means of escaping it. :Wink: :Big Grin:

I can actually see a marginal possibility of a causal relationship. The reason for teaching kids languages (including music) is because it helps them to think metaphorically. Creativity requires the use of metaphor -- a new idea can't be communicated using the names of old ideas. The crippler of creativity is too much inculcation of deductive and inductive reasoning (I worry that hooking kids up to computers, as is presently in vogue, might have just that effect.) The reason psychoactive drugs sometimes produce the illusion of creativity is that they can sort of short-circuit the imprint of formal-logical thinking that so many people have received. It may be that bi-polarity or even mild schizophrenia could have a similar effect.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I'll also mention, though, that I despise the popular idea, which came in with existentialism, that you have to be nuts to be creative, and that it's not really creative if it ain't nuts, like Abstract Expressionism or atonal music.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Do you think it's true that there is a common link between depression and writers? It seems that so many of my favorite writers have killed themselves or have serious depression. I have been writing stories and poems since I was 16 and I also have really bad depression and anxiety. However, I do know that in my case it is also genetics because I have an aunt who had depression and epilepsy and she killed herself. Several people on both sides of my family also suffer from mental illness.

I'm sorry if the post is morose, it's just been on my mind lately and it really feels like a curse that artists have, to be so creative yet have so much hidden pain.

It's been pretty well established that creativity and depression go hand in hand when it comes to writers. Zane Grey, Hunter S. Thompson, J. K. Rowling to name 3 off the top of my head.

This article explains a bit more on the subject:

http://www.everydayhealth.com/depression/why-writers-are-prone-to-depression-6709.aspx

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's been pretty well established that creativity and depression go hand in hand when it comes to writers. Zane Grey, Hunter S. Thompson, J. K. Rowling to name 3 off the top of my head.

There are a lot of depressed writers... but there are a lot of depressed plumbers and doctors and real estate agents too. Something like 10% of the population experience depression at some point in their life. I wonder if it's genuinely more common among writers, or just more visible; there are many careers where people have reason to conceal mental illness.

 

[Handley_Page]

Genius and Madness are next door neighbors
And they borrow each others sugar.

See here:- LINK

Kinda proves it, IMO

 

[AlwaysHungry]

See here:- LINK

Kinda proves it, IMO

One case does not demonstrate a pattern. You might just as well argue that the case of J.S. Bach proves that the greatest composers are the ones with the most kids.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

There are a lot of depressed writers... but there are a lot of depressed plumbers and doctors and real estate agents too. Something like 10% of the population experience depression at some point in their life. I wonder if it's genuinely more common among writers, or just more visible; there are many careers where people have reason to conceal mental illness.

Agreed. I'm creative - more hobbies than I will ever have time for, all about learning, making or inventing unusual things - and I'm if anything slightly manic. Having seen real depression in others, they generally can't be arsed to lift a pen or paintbrush. I don't think creativity and depression correlate well. And I'm not certain that all forms of creativity (writing, painting, engineering, composing....) fit into a common mold anyway.

 

[sr71plt]

I could believe that artistically creative people had a higher proportion of mental issues than the norm. But then, I think a higher proportion of them are Jewish and gay too.

 

[someoneyouknow]

I wonder if it's genuinely more common among writers, or just more visible; there are many careers where people have reason to conceal mental illness.

If you read the link I provided it says studies show there is more depression among writers than other groups.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Generally agree on an anecdotal basis. My daughter suffers anxiety, went to art college, and found that more than half of her class mates were similar (anxiety, depression, most places on lots of spectrums). Made sense, especially the high numbers of very very bright young women with a real creative flair (quite a noticeable gender imbalance).

High powered brains use up fuel, fast, and if the body can't keep the chemical mix right, something's going to go up or down.

Mind you, you've gotta define "creative" first - I suspect most of us just need to get a life, really. Self delusion is probably at the top of the list.

"Gee, I'm sad and depressed, I must be creative."

"No, you just think you are..."

 

[nymph817]

Do you think it's true that there is a common link between depression and writers? It seems that so many of my favorite writers have killed themselves or have serious depression. I have been writing stories and poems since I was 16 and I also have really bad depression and anxiety. However, I do know that in my case it is also genetics because I have an aunt who had depression and epilepsy and she killed herself. Several people on both sides of my family also suffer from mental illness.

I'm sorry if the post is morose, it's just been on my mind lately and it really feels like a curse that artists have, to be so creative yet have so much hidden pain.

I enjoy writing, and yet ... it was only a few years ago that I wasn't a serious writer. I mean I dabbled. But not hardcore like I am today here and in other sites not involving sex.

I've written several books and long articles on How-To do many things under a different alias.

https://media.giphy.com/media/TTMFmelZrgG6k/giphy.gif

I definitely think there is strong creativity in the mentally ill, and I believe depression does hit here. I'm not going to go in to detail except (pardon me as I take my antipsychotic Seroquel - serious), I am familiar with mental illness, intimately, both inside mental wards and out.

The depression stems quite simply from 'coming down' from a high. If you are mentally ill and live in a wonderful fantasy world - and many people do, then imagine pulling them down, dragging them back to Earth.

You would do anything - anything at all to be back in that fantasy world, even suicide. That is true depression.

Mental illness can range from depression to delusion to hallucinations. The voices. They're the ones responsible. That's my excuse anyways.

To try and describe madness, at least to me is fairly simple. Imagine if you will impinging reality. It is so PAINFUL to live in that world that you would do anything - anything at all, to leave that world.

And I am a firm believer that the mind can accomplish anything it wants, even if it lies to its owner to reach this goal. With madness comes obsession, dedication, and superior ability. That is something I firmly believe.

So where does this put writing ?

Writing to me is the one last great frontier of creativity. Sure there is sculpture, painting, designing, or programming, like I do sometimes. And perhaps some people appreciate that more. But either of those take a certain degree of talent that not anyone can learn.

Writing IMHO does not. Anyone can write. They may not write well but there are examples of good writing everywhere and if they are diligent and have an open mind to learn how to write effectively, I believe there is little they cannot accomplish.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I don't think it's a good idea to encourage a view that persists because a lot of depressed people all get together and start agreeing with each other - and other people just can't be bothered intervening and shattering their small happiness.

I really - REALLY - don't think you can demonstrate any kind of direct causal linkage or even statistical one between the neurochemistry of depression, and successful and commercially-useful creativity. Far from it.

And I wonder how many people commenting thus far that there IS or might be a connection have ever actually been professionally successful in a creative field, and I mean for serious money.

What I have noticed over the years, albeit it is only my own anecdotal observation, is that there are a number of depressed people around how affirm they have been creative or that they are creative or who point to some other work as 'creative,' and other people stand back and go to themselves: 'wtf.'

Sitting (perhaps alone) in a cafe, in a corner, observing, drinking endless coffee or absinthe - yup. But that is not someone 'being depressed.'

 

[nymph817]

I don't think it's a good idea to encourage a view that persists because a lot of depressed people all get together and start agreeing with each other - and other people just can't be bothered intervening and shattering their small happiness.

I really - REALLY - don't think you can demonstrate any kind of direct causal linkage or even statistical one between the neurochemistry of depression, and successful and commercially-useful creativity. Far from it.

And I wonder how many people commenting thus far that there IS or might be a connection have ever actually been professionally successful in a creative field, and I mean for serious money.

What I have noticed over the years, albeit it is only my own anecdotal observation, is that there are a number of depressed people around how affirm they have been creative or that they are creative or who point to some other work as 'creative,' and other people stand back and go to themselves: 'wtf.'

Sitting (perhaps alone) in a cafe, in a corner, observing, drinking endless coffee or absinthe - yup. But that is not someone 'being depressed.'

Agreed. While I see a psychologist every week and we 'filter' through things, it is possible my revelations apply only to a very few, or maybe even to just myself. I can't see this as I don't personally know any other mentally ill people.

And in the ward, you look out JUST for yourself !

I certainly don't want to encourage depression, but I would like to point out that insanity is definitely linked to genius and obsession, and that can go on to do great and astounding works.

 

[someoneyouknow]

I really - REALLY - don't think you can demonstrate any kind of direct causal linkage or even statistical one between the neurochemistry of depression, and successful and commercially-useful creativity. Far from it.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/22/world/the-dark-side-of-creativity-vincent-van-gogh/

From the above article:

Using a registry of psychiatric patients, they tracked nearly 1.2 million Swedes and their relatives. The patients demonstrated conditions ranging from schizophrenia and depression to ADHD and anxiety syndromes.

They found that people working in creative fields, including dancers, photographers and authors, were 8% more likely to live with bipolar disorder. Writers were a staggering 121% more likely to suffer from the condition, and nearly 50% more likely to commit suicide than the general population. (emphasis mine)