The Gayle Quinnell Moment

[phrodeau]

On 10/10/2008, Gayle Quinnell stood up at a McCain rally in Lakeville MN to announce that Barack Obama was an Arab. John McCain promptly corrected her, with "No ma'am, he's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues."

On 1/23/2012 in Lady Lake FL, an elderly woman told the crowd that Barack Obama wasn't her President, and that he was an avowed Muslim. Rick Santorum's response: ""Well, yeah, I'm doing my best to try to get him out of the government."

On 5/7/2012 near Cleveland OH, a woman told the crowd that President Obama should be tried for treason. Mitt Romney responded with his opinion of Obama's comment about the history of the Supreme Court, and never rebuked the treason charge.

And on 9/17/2015 in New Hampshire, a man told Donald Trump's crowd that Obama is a Muslim and not American. Donald Trump's response is now the stuff of legend.

Eric Zorn of the Chicago Tribune coined the term, "Gayle Quinnell Moment" for these type of events. Something tells me that there will be more to come.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I would argue that McCain did shoot that woman down. Though I guess reading it I'm nearly forced to concede a fraction of a point to Renard. Being an Arab and a good family man are not mutually exclusive.

 

[someoneyouknow]

I'm sure these people are highly upset their 401K's, or retirement accounts in general, are doing so well under this "muslim" compared to the Christian guy who went before him, not to mention we've recovered all the jobs lost after the recession, gas prices are the lowest in years (and still falling) and we haven't had planes slamming into buildings because the person in office ignored six months of daily warnings.

People have short term memories.

 

[Hypoxia]

People have short term memories.

You mean, "Faux News viewers are morons." Gotcha.

 

[phrodeau]

I'm sure these people are highly upset their 401K's, or retirement accounts in general, are doing so well under this "muslim" compared to the Christian guy who went before him, not to mention we've recovered all the jobs lost after the recession, gas prices are the lowest in years (and still falling) and we haven't had planes slamming into buildings because the person in office ignored six months of daily warnings.

People have short term memories.

You could make a case in favor of having a foreign-born President.

Maybe Arnold Schwarzeneggar should take up the argument.

 

[someoneyouknow]

You could make a case in favor of having a foreign-born President.

Maybe Arnold Schwarzeneggar should take up the argument.

Except for that whole Constitution thing. Or are we going to ignore it when it inconveniences us yet whine when we want to cite it for our supposed grievances?

 

[phrodeau]

http://pagesix.com/2013/10/18/schwarzenegger-mounting-legal-challenge-to-run-for-president/

Columbia University Law School professor Michael Dorf, an expert in constitutional law, said about the Governator’s case in 2007, “The law is very clear, but it’s not 100 percent clear that the courts would enforce that law rather than leave it to the political process.”

 

[Yardley]

Where are the quotes in 2008 from Hillary renouncing the birther movement that her supporters started?

Oh, that's different?

 

[phrodeau]

Where are the quotes in 2008 from Hillary renouncing the birther movement that her supporters started?

Oh, that's different?

Go fetch.

 

[Yardley]

Go fetch.

As you surely know, there are none to fetch.

Sorry to throw some cold water on your premise just went you were about to make steam.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I want someont to fetch up how Hillary started the Birther movement. It's one of those things I hear stated with no proof.

Except for that whole Constitution thing. Or are we going to ignore it when it inconveniences us yet whine when we want to cite it for our supposed grievances?

Well that's what everybody does all the time. To the poitn that I've stated for years the Constitution is really just a crutch for a bad argument in this country when it should be a tie breaker for two equally good ones.

 

[phrodeau]

(edited)

I want someont to fetch up how Hillary started the Birther movement. It's one of those things I hear stated with no proof.

It's the Gospel according to Breitbart.

 

[someoneyouknow]

I want someont to fetch up how Hillary started the Birther movement. It's one of those things I hear stated with no proof.



Well that's what everybody does all the time. To the poitn that I've stated for years the Constitution is really just a crutch for a bad argument in this country when it should be a tie breaker for two equally good ones.

Agreed, except that as we've seen with the four times married Kim Davis claiming she's following God's law rather than man's, there will always be those who will completely ignore the Constitution despite its clear meaning.

Or like others who will claim it's a violation of their religious rights to not serve certain groups despite being a public business.

Or those who claim their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech are being infringed by a company, ignoring the fact the Constitution only applies to government.

If those who want to claim, "The Constitution!" would follow the Constitution, they'd be surprised at how much they think they know isn't remotely close. With the next words out of their mouths being, "We need to change it!".

 

[Yardley]

I want someone to fetch up how Hillary started the Birther movement. It's one of those things I hear stated with no proof.



Well that's what everybody does all the time. To the point that I've stated for years the Constitution is really just a crutch for a bad argument in this country when it should be a tie breaker for two equally good ones.

Hillary herself did not send the "anonymous" emails that started it. Well, unless she did it from a secret server and later wiped it clean....

Seriously, though, in the 2008 campaign early in the primary these emails were spread according to fact-check.org, as I said by "Hillary supporters." Rational wikki lays it at the feet of the Hillary campaign itself but offers no proof.

Only Hillary was in a position to benefit from such controversy at the time and her campaign did absolutely nothing to squelch it. Somewhere there is a clip of here slyly issuing a non-denial. Like, "We are not aware of any specifics about the location and circumstances of his birth" Wink wink nudge nudge.

Unless and until Obama became the presumptive nominee, which he was not at that point, it would have benefited Republicans not at all to get their hands dirty. In theory, at that time, they would have rather taken on Obama, than Hillary and her deep pocket backers anyway.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm not claiming people are hypocrites all day and all night and on occasion with good reason. I'm not a fan of government in my shit and I do think we've gone fantastically overboard with our homeland security. But I do get why some people would say "Fuck the Constitution" and want people searched before getting on a plan, don't mind confiscating your good without giving you monetary compensation or even tapping your phones. (I strongly disagree with that final one even by comparison. But my point is there is a clear rationale)

 

[someoneyouknow]

I'm not claiming people are hypocrites all day and all night and on occasion with good reason. I'm not a fan of government in my shit and I do think we've gone fantastically overboard with our homeland security. But I do get why some people would say "Fuck the Constitution" and want people searched before getting on a plan, don't mind confiscating your good without giving you monetary compensation or even tapping your phones. (I strongly disagree with that final one even by comparison. But my point is there is a clear rationale)

And as James Madison stated:

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”

 

[Sean Renaud]

I really hate those old quotes because so many of them either have no context today or possibly ever had them and generally treat freedom as the highest holy in the existence of the world. Anybody who can name a single law in existence that they agree with has already accepted that safety and order do have a place and after that we are quibbling details. Important details mind you. I'm glad that even if you can afford it you can't go buy a fully armed tank. I'm of mixed feelings on what small arms you should be able to own if baseball was outlawd because of bats I'd be mighty pissed.

 

[phrodeau]

Hillary herself did not send the "anonymous" emails that started it. Well, unless she did it from a secret server and later wiped it clean....

Seriously, though, in the 2008 campaign early in the primary these emails were spread according to fact-check.org, as I said by "Hillary supporters." Rational wikki lays it at the feet of the Hillary campaign itself but offers no proof.

Only Hillary was in a position to benefit from such controversy at the time and her campaign did absolutely nothing to squelch it. Somewhere there is a clip of here slyly issuing a non-denial. Like, "We are not aware of any specifics about the location and circumstances of his birth" Wink wink nudge nudge.

Unless and until Obama became the presumptive nominee, which he was not at that point, it would have benefited Republicans not at all to get their hands dirty. In theory, at that time, they would have rather taken on Obama, than Hillary and her deep pocket backers anyway.

I'm not sure what point you're making. There may have been legitimate concerns about Obama's candidacy, since he had a foreign-born father. But once those concerns were proven to be unfounded, the Democrats STFU about it.

 

[sr71plt]

I really hate those old quotes because so many of them either have no context today or possibly ever had them and generally treat freedom as the highest holy in the existence of the world. Anybody who can name a single law in existence that they agree with has already accepted that safety and order do have a place and after that we are quibbling details. Important details mind you. I'm glad that even if you can afford it you can't go buy a fully armed tank. I'm of mixed feelings on what small arms you should be able to own if baseball was outlawd because of bats I'd be mighty pissed.

Plus, it's sort of idiotic in this time and age to be quoting a slaveholder like Madison (or Jefferson) on the topic of the abridgment of freedom.

 

[Sean Renaud]

At the time the Republicans via Rush Limbaugh were openly attempting to subvert Democracy.

I assume you can post this "clip" of Hillary. That does sound like something she'd do but it seems more often than not things from the right cannot be supported by facts.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Here is a lot of detail of Hillary as a birther: https://www.google.com/search?sourc...0i22i30l5.0.0.0.24746...........0.vypFm6T7p44

She probably did not start or repeat the rumor, preferring to have her minions sling the mud, but she also did not repudiate it until Obama had won the nomination, and maybe not even then.

 

[Boxlicker101]

At the time the Republicans via Rush Limbaugh were openly attempting to subvert Democracy.

I assume you can post this "clip" of Hillary. That does sound like something she'd do but it seems more often than not things from the right cannot be supported by facts.

I'm no fan of Rush Limbaugh, but what did he do to try to "subvert Democracy?"

 

[oggbashan]

I have heard of "guilt by association" for politicians - being seen with someone that voters would not approve of. Some media sources are using that trope too often.

Any politician is likely to meet many people in a year, some of whom he/she might disapprove of. If the politician is actually in office, he/she will meet political enemies and a whole crowd of assholes. Standing next to someone, or shaking hands with someone, does not mean that they are friends, nor that they share the same political views.

But the Gayle Quinnell Moment goes further than "guilt by association". Is every politician expected to challenge and oppose any deluded statement made in their presence? If so, getting elected could become very difficult because you might have to oppose the strongly held views of people who support you.

Many years ago I attended political rallies in the UK for the three main parties. What the dedicated supporters said at each appalled me. They wanted policies that no Member of Parliament could agree with.

An example: At the Conservative rally, several people wanted public flogging for rowdy teenagers - not criminal teenagers, just kids who made a noise in the street after 9 pm. And that call was popular! Others wanted a return to hanging criminals in public - as a deterrent to others...

There are many people who believe stupid things. No politician can deny all of the conspiracy theories because a denial leads to a different conspiracy theory, or that the politician is part of the conspiracy.

 

[Hypoxia]

Note that the US Constitution has been officially violated since almost Day One with no repercussions. I refer to Article VI paragraph 2: "This Constitution... and all Treaties made, or which shall be made... shall be the supreme Law of the Land...". Note all the treaties made with Native Americans and others that were routinely broken. W was correct; the Constitution *is* just a worthless scrap of paper.

Meanwhile the GOP propaganda machine, including draft-dodging junky Rush Limbo and Oz-born felon Murdoch, has convinced far too many that Obama was not born in the US and that Cruz was, both false. McCain was born outside the US also. But no matter where they were born, all had at least one parent as US citizens and are thus "natural-born citizens". (A front yard sign down my road still reads, DON'T BLAME ME - I VOTED FOR THE AMERICAN.) But why bother the mindless with factual details? Bullshit is *so* much more entertaining.

 

[phrodeau]

Here is a lot of detail of Hillary as a birther: https://www.google.com/search?sourc...0i22i30l5.0.0.0.24746...........0.vypFm6T7p44

She probably did not start or repeat the rumor, preferring to have her minions sling the mud, but she also did not repudiate it until Obama had won the nomination, and maybe not even then.

Those aren't details, they are search results. Here are details, from one of those websites:

Claims about Obama’s birthplace appeared in chain emails bouncing around the Web, and one of the first lawsuits over Obama’s birth certificate was filed by Philip Berg, a former deputy Pennsylvania attorney general and a self-described “moderate to liberal” who supported Clinton.

But none of those stories suggests any link between the Clinton campaign, let alone Clinton herself, and the advocacy of theories questioning Obama’s birth in Hawaii.

One of the authors of the Politico story, Byron Tau, now a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, told FactCheck.org via email that “we never found any links between the Clinton campaign and the rumors in 2008.”

The other coauthor of the Politico story, Ben Smith, now the editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed, said in a May 2013 interview on MSNBC that the conspiracy theories traced back to “some of [Hillary Clinton’s] passionate supporters,” during the final throes of Clinton’s 2008 campaign. But he said they did not come from “Clinton herself or her staff.”

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/