Readers and Realism

[Facade123]

Hey, so this is equal parts venting and a search for feedback. Apologies in advance if there's a subforum this would be better suited to, but the informal nature of the post made me think this was the right place. I've dabbled in writing several different stories, but there's only one up on literotica for me at the moment. One of the biggest sticking points readers seem to have with erotica in general is how realistic it is. This makes sense.

My personal struggle with the issue is, however, that my stories focus heavily on rather extreme sexual encounters. They aren't boy meets girl, boy and girl sleep together. For instance, the story I'm currently working on is about a family being torn apart by blackmail. It seems like, to me, stories of this nature are almost always going to require suspension of disbelief. The point of erotica is to explore the sexual encounters you want. Thats the point. I know that, in real life, most of the sexual encounters under tags like non-con/reluc, incest, and definitely mind control, would never happen. Isn't the point of reading these stories though to explore what would happen if they did? I guess I'm just not sure what readers expect. Do they want the central protagonist to be defeated in the second chapter? And for none of the sexual encounters to happen because its 'unrealistic'? How do you guys manage this balancing act?

 

[sr71plt]

There isn't just one reader on Literotica. They all have different likes. You're not going to satisfy this one nonexistent universal reader. Chances are good you'll find a fan base for just about anything you write. If you can't be satisfied with that, you'll either write pabulum to try to satisfy the biggest reader set possible, or you'll have running meltdowns.

 

[SikFuk]

I just posted a father/daughter incest story that does not include a scene of actual fucking, but does contain multiple scenes of orgasms. One reader was so incensed he said he gave me 1s on five different browsers because my story was non-erotic.

I think the "standard" LIT viewer - the viewers that push stories up onto the top lists - want a slow buildup to a very graphic sex scene so they can masturbate. And they don't want anything bad to happen to the key characters until this perfect sex scene occurs. And they don't want a character to change their mind at the last minute, as so often happens in real life. If you break from this perfect-sex formula, I suspect your scores will suffer. On the other hand, I can't imagine a "standard" LIT story ever getting optioned for a movie, but the storyline you mentioned might.

Just write the story you want to tell. It's not like your paycheck is going to suffer if your score is low.

 

[LadyVer]

I believe there are (generally) three types of readers on Lit. One type wants a good story to masturbate to. The other wants a good plot, whatever the category. The last wants a good masturbation story with a plot. Personally, I don't want the stories I read to be too realistic because I read for escape, and sometimes pleasure. Life is hard enough. I don't want to deal with too much realism in stories. There are readers who want realism, which is ok. My main issue with stories is that the story follow conventions of the category.

FWIW, I edited a really good series that was put in the Mind Control category, which I thought would have been better suited for the Fantasy or BDSM categories. When I told a few writers who write incest and group stories that I was editing a Mind Control series they were horrified.

 

[Everyday_Man]

I just posted a father/daughter incest story that does not include a scene of actual fucking, but does contain multiple scenes of orgasms. One reader was so incensed he said he gave me 1s on five different browsers because my story was non-erotic.

That son of a bitch ... he uses five browsers?


I've never had a problem with a story being to far fetched or to realistic, so long as the writing is entertaining and done well. If it's bad writing, I usually don't get that far, but I enjoy a little build up, which for me solves the 'would they do this' question.

Like the others said, there is no real one way to do it right. Edit: Satisfy everyone.

 

[Hypoxia]

One single story of mine can gather "I love it!" and "I hate it" in adjacent comments surrounded by a mix of "write another just like it but with the guy fucking his mother's ass" and "I'll give you fives stars if you commit suicide". Lovers gonna love, haters gonna hate. Write your stories with as much or as little realism as you can stand -- it's up to you 'cause you ain't getting paid here, you're only writing for your own jollies. (Dr Johnson said, "Only a fool writes, if not for money," so we have many fools here, myself included.)

I *do* have something of a realism fetish but I manage to curb it as needed. I want details to be accurate if they're not obviously invented or purposely blurred. But I don't want my incest stories to deal with the reality of incest -- it's abusive, not erotic. I certainly don't want my characters to be too realistic because their models might recognize themselves and murder me. I want my stories placed in realistic settings but decorated with provocative fantasies.

 

[HeyAll]

The way I see it, different stories are held to different standards.

Just like movies. A superhero movie has a different standard that a gritty crime drama.

With stories, it's the way you write it. If the writing is fun and playful, with a lighthearted tone, then you can get away with more stuff without people complaining.

If you write like it's literature, people are naturally going to expect high quality stuff.

For me, I just imagine it like I'm watching a tv show, and I think 'how would this character reasonably react? what would this character do or say in that situation?'

 

[SamScribble]

Given that nobody is getting paid to post here (at least I assume that's the case), just write what you want to write. If a decent handful of readers stand and cheer, that's great. If a handful of apparently literate critics offer useful feedback, that's pretty good too. And if a bunch of know-nothing idiots chose to one-bomb you, go and have an ice cream. Or a glass of wine.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

God didn't make enough time to use pleasing everyone so I use my time to please me.

 

[GoldenMaia]

I wrote one story that I thought was very hot...because I love the scene from Mr & Mrs Smith where they thrash the house and then have hot sex afterwards. I did this in my scene and had comments about how glass and sex was not 'sexy/erotic'. <.< (Excuse me, yes it is!)

I also did an outrageous 'this would never happen' group sex scene in another story that no one blinked an eye at. *shrugs* I get so few readers that I figure the best I can do is write for myself and hope that the people who find me will enjoy the story too.

I have also done the foiled-orgasm or frustrated-end-scene where the woman doesn't particularly get to cum at the end and I thought it would score bad but...so far the votes have been alright.



-GM-

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I believe there are (generally) three types of readers on Lit. One type wants a good story to masturbate to. The other wants a good plot, whatever the category. The last wants a good masturbation story with a plot. Personally, I don't want the stories I read to be too realistic because I read for escape, and sometimes pleasure.)

This, or close. I'm not sure anyone comes here for *just* plot, but I know people who need a solid plot or they can't enjoy the story. And there are people who don't care if the characters are cardboard (well, erotica: rubber) and the plot is trash as long as it mentions their particular ideal variation of tab A, slut B.

Realism... eh. I write speculative fiction erotica and it rates decently. I write more realistic fiction and it rates better. But at the end of the day my characters are orgasm machines, because yay orgasms. Perfect realism doesn't belong in erotica.

 

[karaline]

My personal struggle with the issue is, however, that my stories focus heavily on rather extreme sexual encounters. They aren't boy meets girl, boy and girl sleep together. For instance, the story I'm currently working on is about a family being torn apart by blackmail. It seems like, to me, stories of this nature are almost always going to require suspension of disbelief. The point of erotica is to explore the sexual encounters you want. Thats the point. I know that, in real life, most of the sexual encounters under tags like non-con/reluc, incest, and definitely mind control, would never happen. Isn't the point of reading these stories though to explore what would happen if they did? I guess I'm just not sure what readers expect. Do they want the central protagonist to be defeated in the second chapter? And for none of the sexual encounters to happen because its 'unrealistic'? How do you guys manage this balancing act?

Personally I can suspend my disbelief in regard to events, if the characters are reacting realistically, or in a way that I can relate to, or if their reactions are odd
they're are explained.

 

[TxRad]

Realistic Erotica. Realistic Erotica. Realistic Erotica.

Real Fantasy. Real Fantasy. Real Fantasy.

Real = Boring, dull, uninteresting

Anyone see the error here?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Action takes 3 forms: It can be psychotic/demented, it can be drill/choreography, or it can be spontaneous. Pay attention! Art is where the choreography seems spontaneous yet flawless.

 

[DreamCloud]

Personally, I don't want the stories I read to be too realistic because I read for escape, and sometimes pleasure. Life is hard enough. I don't want to deal with too much realism in stories.

I couldn't agree more. The best stories here are sexy fairy tales.

 

[8letters]

I was tempted to create a thread to bitch about this, but I'll toss it into this thread.

I have a dad/daughter story (My Daughter Interrupts My Work) that I meant as a lighthearted story. The dad is a network administrator for a military classified network. In the story, there's a problem when he's at home and he checks on it from his apartment.

Some comments I have gotten:

Sexy, and written well enough, but you have to make a story believable for it to be enjoyable, this one fell way short of the mark on that one. Change it the stock market, instead of the NATIONAL FUCKING DEFENCE GRID... or something else important, that could happen.. the DOD isn't going to allow a homebound with that kind of access. ........... So tired of stories that couldn't happen! (yes I know this is fiction, but grow a brain.)

bull shit story
national security at risk and this shit going on , to much shit for a dollar

Stick to stuff you know about
Clearly you don't know anything about military security. This is nothing even resembling a military network. Just for starters you can't have a classified computer in a non classified building. Don't write about things you know nothing about. Makes you look like an idiot.

Yeah, I should stick to realistic stuff I know about like guys with 12" dicks fucking 18 year olds with GG tits.

 

[Everyday_Man]

Yeah, I should stick to realistic stuff I know about like guys with 12" dicks fucking 18 year olds with GG tits.

2 out of 3 for me ain't bad ...


Anyway ... Some people can get really crazy about the details ... like that guy in Sleeping with the Enemy, beating his wife for leaving a towel out of place ... it's all about the details ...


If you were selling this story, I could see where you want to do some research and make sure the details are perfect .... but if I'm reading an incest story, I'm more concerned with the incest rather than thinking if one of the family members hunts aliens for a living or works for the DOD from home. If that was a big part of your story ... ah, ah, ah, okay, get it right, but if the story is written well, it's probably something I can overlook.

Like the Alien Franchise, I can buy the space travel, the aliens, acid for blood and because that was so good, I was willing to overlook the fact that the hero was a woman ..... (haha, that last is just a joke).

 

[Handley_Page]

This, or close. I'm not sure anyone comes here for *just* plot, but I know people who need a solid plot or they can't enjoy the story.

And there are people who don't care if the characters are cardboard (well, erotica: rubber) and the plot is trash as long as it mentions their particular ideal variation of tab A, slut B.

Realism... eh. I write speculative fiction erotica and it rates decently. I write more realistic fiction and it rates better. But at the end of the day my characters are orgasm machines, because yay orgasms. Perfect realism doesn't belong in erotica.

Have I been living in cloud cuckoo-land or something ?
I had [fondly] imagined that we are (aspiring) authors demonstrating the betterment of their skills by a better quality of story.

Surely, the WRITING comes first? If it's good and enough people like it, one gets a good score.

No ?

 

[Hypoxia]

Have I been living in cloud cuckoo-land or something ?
I had [fondly] imagined that we are (aspiring) authors demonstrating the betterment of their skills by a better quality of story.

No, we are wanker enablers and little more. Deceive not thyself.

 

[Handley_Page]

No, we are wanker enablers and little more. Deceive not thyself.

Thank you. I think the effect of the pills has now worn off.

 

[sr71plt]

Have I been living in cloud cuckoo-land or something ?
I had [fondly] imagined that we are (aspiring) authors demonstrating the betterment of their skills by a better quality of story.

Surely, the WRITING comes first? If it's good and enough people like it, one gets a good score.

No ?

Maybe so, because (A) seeking to bettering your skills isn't a requirement for posting stories here, and I'm willing to bet that most posting stories here aren't giving that a single thought.

And (B), there's a whole lot more going into the game of rating here than whether the story is good and enough people like it.

To the whole issue, I might also point out that short stories and novels are two different writing modes. A short story doesn't have to fire on all of the cylinders--characterization, plot, setting, theme. It can concentrate on one or more of these elements. Commenting readers at Lit. (and a lot of folks on the forum) don't seem to get this.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

God didn't make enough time to use pleasing everyone so I use my time to please me.

You're old enough to do that Rick Nelson style...

 

[oggbashan]

...

To the whole issue, I might also point out that short stories and novels are two different writing modes. A short story doesn't have to fire on all of the cylinders--characterization, plot, setting, theme. It can concentrate on one or more of these elements. Commenting readers at Lit. (and a lot of folks on the forum) don't seem to get this.

Some readers at Lit. don't even get the concept of fiction, let alone understand category, genre or appropriate length for a story.

Some think all authors are recounting their own real-life experiences and if it doesn't seem 'real' then it isn't worth reading.

Some think that unless a fetish story is specifically about their own preferred fetish then it must be a poor story.

As for Loving Wives readers? You can please some people some of the time. You can't please all Loving Wives readers any time. Whatever you put in that category will annoy a large number of them.

Many of my stories are mild femdom. That attracts comments that 'no real man' would let a woman behave that way. He'd thrash it out of her, or divorce her, or murder her, or all three sequentially. Why are some men so threatened by femdom? Others enjoy it as a fantasy...

 

[sr71plt]

Some readers at Lit. don't even get the concept of fiction, let alone understand category, genre or appropriate length for a story.

Some think all authors are recounting their own real-life experiences and if it doesn't seem 'real' then it isn't worth reading.

Some think that unless a fetish story is specifically about their own preferred fetish then it must be a poor story.

As for Loving Wives readers? You can please some people some of the time. You can't please all Loving Wives readers any time. Whatever you put in that category will annoy a large number of them.

Many of my stories are mild femdom. That attracts comments that 'no real man' would let a woman behave that way. He'd thrash it out of her, or divorce her, or murder her, or all three sequentially. Why are some men so threatened by femdom? Others enjoy it as a fantasy...

Right-oo, which are all reasons for folks to just stop asking and telling what readers (apparently the nonexistant universal reader) here want as well as closely connecting ratings here to the quality of the story.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Yeah, I should stick to realistic stuff I know about like guys with 12" dicks fucking 18 year olds with GG tits.

12" dicks happen. A girl with GG tits, um, blubbery freaks of nature happen. I mean it's possible.

Home access to anything classified - not conventionally possible. If someone arranged it, they are doing jail time and others are losing their jobs. Story ruined. I'm with you fans on this.

If you want to write fantasy, write fantasy. If you want a story set in the real world, do enough research to show you live in it. If you've got an obvious blunder like that, all credibility is lost and I'll never be able to suspend disbelief when Gigi has her tenth orgasm in one minute.