Capitalism - the "dung of the devil"

[BoyNextDoor]

Pope Francis delivered a fiery denunciation of modern capitalism on Thursday night, calling the "unfettered pursuit of money" the "dung of the devil" and accusing world leaders of "cowardice" for refusing to defend the earth from exploitation.

Damn, this is one Pope that makes an Atheist think twice about beatification.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Pope Francis delivered a fiery denunciation of modern capitalism on Thursday night, calling the "unfettered pursuit of money" the "dung of the devil" and accusing world leaders of "cowardice" for refusing to defend the earth from exploitation.

Damn, this is one Pope that makes an Atheist think twice about beatification.

Because the Catholic Church has never been known to have massive amounts of money and assets beyond their imagination.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

That would be the Pre-Pope Francis RCAC.

Get with the times and stop being so 2012.

 

[eyer]

Poor Francis, the Impostor Pope...

...doesn't believe God's own Word which proclaims there is no saving a world already sentenced to certain death.

So, the self-acclaimed lover of the world and the things of the world, the unbeliever he is, he must waddle into the political area with papal skirts flowing, pontificating the evils of capitalism to a collectively captive choir in socialist Bolivia...

...while even the former most anti-capitalist country in the world - Communist China - is beginning to realize how freedom rewarding capitalism is, how individually empowering it is to more people than any other economic system known yet to man, and which is now faced with either going more capitalist - to let its markets more free of its communist control - or turning back the clock decades and reasserting its totalitarian rule and instantly face the formidable revolt which will surely arise from that incredibly unwise move.

Either way, it's going to be a win-win for the Chinese people themselves, and the rest of the individual liberty-loving world...

...they'll either become more capitalistic (and more free), or they'll have to take down their Communist lords.

But the Pope, instead of obeying his only priestly role - to preach the Gospel to all the world - fancies himself more a politician than ever a theologian...

...which, at least, keeps him out of believers' hair and keeps him fully in the minds of the godless, where, evidently, he deservedly belongs.

 

[Lord Pmann]

That would be the Pre-Pope Francis RCAC.

Get with the times and stop being so 2012.

Did I miss the part where he sold off all their assets to help the poor?

I certainly don't have a problem with wealth (though I do have a problem with the Welsh- sheep fucking bastards!). But I do take issue with the words of the "owner" of what's arguably the most wealthy institution in the world calling capitalism out for its greed.

 

[Sammael Bard]

Name one country that has survived on Socialism and is thriving well. They eventually revert back to Capitalism when their economy of "providing for every fucking idiot worth nothing" goes down the drain.

 

[hashtag45]

commy China… .
while US goes down the drain

 

[Sammael Bard]

Communism is a form of government, not economy.

 

[ForkedTongue]

Communism is a form of government, not economy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Communism

In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis – common, universal)[1][2] is a social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production, absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.

 

[hashtag45]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

You're right. I never understood socialism until recently.

How come Noam Chomsky and Terry Eagleton were able to see some of socialism's merits, whereas everybody here villifies it?

 

[Sammael Bard]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

My bad for not going pedantic.

There are social classes in China, rich to poor farmers. Not everyone is the same there. Their economy is primarily owned by the government, yes, but Capitalism is also there and the huge amount of revenue that it generates cannot be neglected. It's not purely Socialist either.

Communism only in name, but receiving the Capitalist gift too.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Name one country that has survived on Socialism and is thriving well.

Name one country that's ever been more than a complete shit hole without it.

There is a mix between economic power/growth/structure/bidnizz and social responsibility that makes shit just golden.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/SrGrvsaLot/civ5lpb012.jpg


They both have to be fostered and applied appropriately for things to work out. And the government has to be the arbiter because the two are very rarely compatible. And the mix is a dynamic and changing one as the economic and social climates change.

Get too much or too little of one or the other in the mix and it all starts to shit the bed.....

 

[Sammael Bard]

Get too much or too little of one or the other in the mix and it all starts to shit the bed.....

Bingo.

 

[hashtag45]

There is a mix between economic power/growth/structure/bidnizz and social responsibility that makes shit just golden
Get too much or too little of one or the other in the mix and it all starts to shit the bed.....

you're so right, BotanyBoy

It's like yin and yang, male and female.
One focuses on the individual and the need for self-expression, the other focuses on groups and relatedness.

What some people here are referring to as 'socialism' is in fact collectivism

 

[BotanyBoy]

you're so right, BotanyBoy

It's like yin and yang, male and female.
One focuses on the individual and the need for self-expression, the other focuses on groups and relatedness.

What some people here are referring to as 'socialism' is in fact collectivism

You can label it whatever the fuck you want and analogize it 100 different ways, the bottom line is we all have to work together on some level or shit starts breaking down.

Yes socialism can very much chew the hand that feeds to a bloody stump and you wind up with Greece.

But you can go the other direction too....

Look at the US...working more for less than ever before and the wealth day in and day out just gets more and more hyper concentrated and thus less and less stable. Capitalism just like socialism is a great game as long as the referee doesn't allow anyone to actually win. Because a win = game ova.

 

[ForkedTongue]

My bad for not going pedantic.

There are social classes in China, rich to poor farmers. Not everyone is the same there. Their economy is primarily owned by the government, yes, but Capitalism is also there and the huge amount of revenue that it generates cannot be neglected. It's not purely Socialist either.

Communism only in name, but receiving the Capitalist gift too.

It's the same with capitalism, or the tax payers would not be bailing out the bankers.

The cornerstone of capitalism is the "free market." The theory goes that if true competition is in place, with producers and businesses battling it out between themselves to provide their goods and services to consumers, then we would end up with stable and competitive prices, as well as high quality, for those goods and services. Competition is supposed to aggregate supply, demand and pricing. That's the theory but not necessarily the reality.

I suspect most of us can list a pile of businesses that that are effectively monopolies or cartels and which provide lousy service for sky-high prices. Monopolies and cartels are diametrically in opposition to the higher principles of capitalism, but work very much in favor of lining the pockets of the businesses involved.

Another reality of society that private enterprise has real problems in dealing with are the large number of goods and services that require collaboration in order to work properly.
Take street lighting, or even the road networks themselves. Imagine how it would work if each bit of road you used belonged to a person who wanted a fee for your use it. Some pars of the road would be well maintained by a responsible road provider – it would be well lit and cleared of snow in the winter. On the other hand, another bit of the same road might be badly maintained, full of potholes, with no lights and under 4 feet of snow in the winter. That kind of reality may have worked in the past, but it wouldn't work today, which is why most civilized societies have public road networks.

Then, take the idea of free-market street lighting. That offers up the problem of the "free ride". Say that you pay to turn the street lights when you want to go out, but as soon as you do that, your neighbor runs out to use the well-lit streets for free as well. This well recognized dilemma doesn’t do much for neighborly relations so it prompted the generally used solution known as ‘public services’. The idea is that some services are inherently communal and therefore best provided by the state, even in capitalist societies. So the state provides certain public services because of their collective nature or because they are unlikely to be provided by private companies due to their lack of profitability.

So, capitalism has aspects of collectivism, the same way that communism has aspect of private enterprise.

 

[hashtag45]

You can label it whatever the fuck you want and analogize it 100 different ways, the bottom line is we all have to work together on some level or shit starts breaking down.

Yes socialism can very much chew the hand that feeds to a bloody stump and you wind up with Greece.

But you can go the other direction too....

Look at the US...working more for less than ever before and the wealth day in and day out just gets more and more hyper concentrated and thus less and less unstable. Capitalism just like socialism is a great game as long as the referee doesn't allow anyone to actually win.

Agree with everything you said but Greece. and other Eu countries
People are convenieniently focusing on what suits them… .the mess-ups with pensions etc. their inept govts. etc.
But americans conveniently overlook the IMF crooks and other bankers, and the 2008 crisis which had a HUGE part in it all.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Agree with everything you said but Greece. and other Eu countries
People are convenieniently focusing on what suits them… .the mess-ups with pensions etc. their inept govts. etc.
But americans conveniently overlook the IMF crooks and other bankers, and the 2008 crisis which had a HUGE part in it all.

Yea they played a part in it...

But borrowing for huge over the top social programs mixed with large scale tax evasion is the primary culprit in Greece from everything I've gathered.

<3 socialism but you can't run in the red at a total nosedive forever. EVENTUALLY the poor are going to have to suck it up and go without and or the rich are going to have to bend over and spread cheeks....something will give.

I think the US has taken it so far both ends of the spectrum are going to eat it when the SHTF.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Every economic scheme is theft, except barter and charity.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

I think it's been a century since we had true capitalism. What we do have is corporatism. That and some socialism.

 

[hashtag45]

I think it's been a century since we had true capitalism. What we do have is corporatism. That and some socialism.

bingo this too.

 

[eyer]

Every economic scheme is theft, except barter and charity.

Which makes them perfect individual liberty lifestyle bookends...

...in the USSA today.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Pope Francis delivered a fiery denunciation of modern capitalism on Thursday night, calling the "unfettered pursuit of money" the "dung of the devil" and accusing world leaders of "cowardice" for refusing to defend the earth from exploitation.

Damn, this is one Pope that makes an Atheist think twice about beatification.

that's because you are a lazy fucktard totally unwilling to do the work necessary to be successful

you and your kind deserve to starve to death

 

[Pairaclities]

Did I miss the part where he sold off all their assets to help the poor?

I certainly don't have a problem with wealth (though I do have a problem with the Welsh- sheep fucking bastards!). But I do take issue with the words of the "owner" of what's arguably the most wealthy institution in the world calling capitalism out for its greed.

You got it.
This catholic church is (or at least was in the 90's) the richest organization in the world.
They have always pleaded poverty to their parishioners who donate thinking that the wealth is redistributed.
There are about a trillion $ in concrete assets that could be sold off to accomplish this pope's goal.
Absolutely no possibility that will happen, the wealth of the organization is paramount. The poor can go fuck themselves until some group of worshipers feed them.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Every economic scheme is theft, except barter and charity.

The "ancient" fundamental class process is where the producer of surplus value is also its appropriator and distributor. That seems pretty fair to me.

You also seem to be saying something about the inequity of a market for the rational distribution of goods and services. That sounds sorts Marxist to me.