Literotica v Mainstream Erotica

[HeyAll]

And by "mainstream erotica," I don't mean romance novelist. I mean popular books where the content is sex based, whether it be bdsm, or anything where the focus is on lust.

Lately, I've been looking (secretly if possible) at the latest adult books at Target or wherever, or looking at previews online. I'm talking about the best seller stuff. (which are mostly written by women)

What struck me was that even though some authors in the mainstream are considered to be popular and "best sellers," you can find a lot of stuff on Lit that has better quality writing.

So I've been wondering lately, how much of a cross-over do you think there is between Lit readers and people who buy the latest erotica books or for their kindle?

How about with Smashwords? Do you think Lit shares many of the same readers there?

 

[glynndah]

And by "mainstream erotica," I don't mean romance novelist. I mean popular books where the content is sex based, whether it be bdsm, or anything where the focus is on lust.

Lately, I've been looking (secretly if possible) at the latest adult books at Target or wherever, or looking at previews online. I'm talking about the best seller stuff. (which are mostly written by women)

What struck me was that even though some authors in the mainstream are considered to be popular and "best sellers," you can find a lot of stuff on Lit that has better quality writing.

So I've been wondering lately, how much of a cross-over do you think there is between Lit readers and people who buy the latest erotica books or for their kindle?

How about with Smashwords? Do you think Lit shares many of the same readers there?

I find some of the erotic writing on my Kindle to be abysmal. I can do better.

 

[49greg]

I find some of the erotic writing on my Kindle to be abysmal. I can do better.

Yes you can. I think even I can.

 

[Yunie]

I completely agree. I have found some really great (and addictive) novels but there are talented writers on Lit who don't charge for a book and 20 more books in the series...

 

[CeasarBoobage]

I completely agree. I have found some really great (and addictive) novels but there are talented writers on Lit who don't charge for a book and 20 more books in the series...

Maybe those Lit authors should migrate to the paid version, then offer a steep discount to Lit readers. This "cool kids club" could have a members-only sub forum where they can offer up discount coupons to those in the know.

If I thought my writing was good enough, I sure wouldn't mind getting a few $ as thanks. I know it wouldn't be much, but it should at least clover the random nice bottle of single malt scotch.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Funny I was just thinking of posting something about this today.

Lately I've been looking at Amazon and the literally 100+ plus pages of "Billionaire Stepbrother" and "Billionaire Alpha Male" books. And for a little variety, there's always "Tryst with a Trillionaire."

People complain about lit, but "mainstream" is absolutely glutted with crap, too.

Half of it is watered down pseudo-incest or BDSM-lite with a pretty cover slapped on it.

The only advantage I see is the graphics. They make it more attractive, but . . . old wine in new bottles . . .

And by "mainstream erotica," I don't mean romance novelist. I mean popular books where the content is sex based, whether it be bdsm, or anything where the focus is on lust.

Lately, I've been looking (secretly if possible) at the latest adult books at Target or wherever, or looking at previews online. I'm talking about the best seller stuff. (which are mostly written by women)

What struck me was that even though some authors in the mainstream are considered to be popular and "best sellers," you can find a lot of stuff on Lit that has better quality writing.

So I've been wondering lately, how much of a cross-over do you think there is between Lit readers and people who buy the latest erotica books or for their kindle?

How about with Smashwords? Do you think Lit shares many of the same readers there?

 

[sr71plt]

Look up the publisher eXcessica. Most of those authors are from Literotica and are good writers. Their books will be available on Amazon, B&N, Allromanceebooks, and Smashwords, at least.

 

[TxRad]

Erotica in mainstream has it's limits and those are normally set by the legal department at the publishing house. I push the limits all the time. a lot of it never sees anyone but my editor but it does put a smile on her face as she wags her finger at me and says, "No, no, no. You know how that pisses off the legarians."

"Yeah, I do but if I don't, who will?"

So it's not the authors who come up short but the system.

 

[SamScribble]

It's interesting isn't it? Online-only websites can get away with almost anything; but paper-based publishers who dabble in online still have Lady Chatterly in the back of their minds.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Hot Summer Reads is a recent attempt by some of the Literotica authors to break out into the mainstream. I think they are finding out that although we think sex sells, what actually sells is selling! Sometimes people who sell things use sex to sell them but it's their ability to sell which makes the money come in.

Another issue with going up against mainstream erotica stories, especially those written for women, is that the readers are not necessarily looking for a well-written story. Mary Shelley coined the term 'waking dream' for Frankenstein. Unfortunately the dream that many women wish to have while they are awake, is what looks on the face of it a highly dubious one.

But I think these are re-tellings of our lives in a format which makes what can't be changed acceptable. A friend of mine who is a social worker says four out of five women in her waiting room were reading 50 Shades when it came out. To read a technicolour account of glamourised abuse made what their husbands were doing to them seem acceptable. It made it look like the guys who were beating them did it out of love.

Women make sense of dull restricted lives not by looking for ways to change themselves, their partners or the world around them - that's a tough call. They try to suffocate the small voice of reason which says their lives are not worth living, by smothering it with crap romance. Not least, the fact that these are unrealistic airy-fairy stupid stories suggests that romance is not for real life. They should not expect their husbands to treat them like Princesses, that only happens in books.

Selling that big romantic erotica market a well-written true to life erotic story, a dream that says 'wake up', is going to be very hard work.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Not exactly true.

We don't really try to "sell" on lit. Sex is the currency here. Watered down crap doesn't go over that well; its a different context altogether.

The hottest erotica has almost always been anonymous, circulated underground. There's always been a seamy underside to the mainstream. A Fanny Hill for every Frankenstein. Not to mention Victorian erotica flourishing underneath all the Pollyanna romances of the time.

You might rephrase it as What sells is selling . . . out.

Hot Summer Reads is a recent attempt by some of the Literotica authors to break out into the mainstream. I think they are finding out that although we think sex sells, what actually sells is selling! Sometimes people who sell things use sex to sell them but it's their ability to sell which makes the money come in.

Another issue with going up against mainstream erotica stories, especially those written for women, is that the readers are not necessarily looking for a well-written story. Mary Shelley coined the term 'waking dream' for Frankenstein. Unfortunately the dream that many women wish to have while they are awake, is what looks on the face of it a highly dubious one.

But I think these are re-tellings of our lives in a format which makes what can't be changed acceptable. A friend of mine who is a social worker says four out of five women in her waiting room were reading 50 Shades when it came out. To read a technicolour account of glamourised abuse made what their husbands were doing to them seem acceptable. It made it look like the guys who were beating them did it out of love.

Women make sense of dull restricted lives not by looking for ways to change themselves, their partners or the world around them - that's a tough call. They try to suffocate the small voice of reason which says their lives are not worth living, by smothering it with crap romance. Not least, the fact that these are unrealistic airy-fairy stupid stories suggests that romance is not for real life. They should not expect their husbands to treat them like Princesses, that only happens in books.

Selling that big romantic erotica market a well-written true to life erotic story, a dream that says 'wake up', is going to be very hard work.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Not exactly true.

We don't really try to "sell" on lit. Sex is the currency here. Watered down crap doesn't go over that well; its a different context altogether.

The hottest erotica has almost always been anonymous, circulated underground. There's always been a seamy underside to the mainstream. A Fanny Hill for every Frankenstein. Not to mention Victorian erotica flourishing underneath all the Pollyanna romances of the time.

You might rephrase it as What sells is selling . . . out.

Wrong. One type of porn exists for the chalky perfessers, and the other carries the dreams of the layman who cant live a dream in his home or her neighborhood.

 

[NaokoSmith]

We don't really try to "sell" on lit. Sex is the currency here. Watered down crap doesn't go over that well; its a different context altogether.
...
You might rephrase it as What sells is selling . . . out.

What's fascinating on Lit is that when selling is ruled out, people are still writing avidly about sex. Sex is beyond a currency, even though the capitalist dominance of our world means we try to talk about it in those terms. People on here don't sell, don't even post in hopes of scoring the highest. It's well known that the stories those we admire most admire are often not among the highest scoring ones.

I go with many of the 'chalky perfessers' who argue that it's in sexuality that our identity is most profoundly formed and expressed, so it's amazing to find this site which allows 'waking dreams' outside of currency, in which people formulate and share visions of being that are based in pleasure not high rates of money or score. There are all sorts of consequences for the writing which come when it's free from a world of commerce, not just that you can flout a legalese which is also based in capitalist ethos.

 

[legerdemer]

What's fascinating on Lit is that when selling is ruled out, people are still writing avidly about sex. Sex is beyond a currency, even though the capitalist dominance of our world means we try to talk about it in those terms. People on here don't sell, don't even post in hopes of scoring the highest. It's well known that the stories those we admire most admire are often not among the highest scoring ones.

I go with many of the 'chalky perfessers' who argue that it's in sexuality that our identity is most profoundly formed and expressed, so it's amazing to find this site which allows 'waking dreams' outside of currency, in which people formulate and share visions of being that are based in pleasure not high rates of money or score. There are all sorts of consequences for the writing which come when it's free from a world of commerce, not just that you can flout a legalese which is also based in capitalist ethos.

Very well said. I couldn't agree more.
Every reader is a (possibly imagined) compliment, someone I've made some connection with, though fleeting.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Look up the publisher eXcessica. Most of those authors are from Literotica and are good writers. Their books will be available on Amazon, B&N, Allromanceebooks, and Smashwords, at least.

The site doesn't allow you to promote your business partners;

Selena is not a contributor to Lit and you are trampling over Lit's rules with your close connection.

For once in your life, be honest and admit you are pimping for Selena Kitt is financially motivated.

 

[TxRad]

The site doesn't allow you to promote your business partners;

Selena is not a contributor to Lit and you are trampling over Lit's rules with your close connection.

For once in your life, be honest and admit your pimping for Selena Kitt is financially motivated.

As usual, you don't have a clue.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Seriously,I miss the point.

sr promotes a publisher who has no connection with the site.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Perhaps currency is the wrong word. I meant, it's what we deal with, its what matters, for its own sake.--well, eroticism more than sex, to be more accurate. And I agree, it is outside of commerce, for the most part.

UNTIL you introduce the contests, which is an interesting phenomenon watching people foam at the mouth about it. The second you introduce some form of competition and even the tiniest symbolic pittance of economy, it all changes.

What's fascinating on Lit is that when selling is ruled out, people are still writing avidly about sex. Sex is beyond a currency, even though the capitalist dominance of our world means we try to talk about it in those terms. People on here don't sell, don't even post in hopes of scoring the highest. It's well known that the stories those we admire most admire are often not among the highest scoring ones.

I go with many of the 'chalky perfessers' who argue that it's in sexuality that our identity is most profoundly formed and expressed, so it's amazing to find this site which allows 'waking dreams' outside of currency, in which people formulate and share visions of being that are based in pleasure not high rates of money or score. There are all sorts of consequences for the writing which come when it's free from a world of commerce, not just that you can flout a legalese which is also based in capitalist ethos.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I would take a guess that there's not that much of a cross over at all.

If you know about lit and spend a lot of time here reading, first of all why are you going to go pay money for the same thing? Second of all, I know myself as a reader-- what you find on lit is way hotter. Way way way hotter. Anything that is mainstream is foregone going to be lame, with the occasional miraculous exception.

but more for Amazon and truly mainstream. The sex presses, maybe not.

I just know I never ever would--this was before I started writing. Mainstream = snoozefest.

Then again genre matters. The more fetish-y, the less likely you are to look elsewhere; the more generalized genres like Romance, Gay and Lesbian, probably more of a cross over.

So I've been wondering lately, how much of a cross-over do you think there is between Lit readers and people who buy the latest erotica books or for their kindle?

 

[sr71plt]

Seriously,I miss the point.

sr promotes a publisher who has no connection with the site.

Once again, not having contributed a story here for nine years fingers you as well out of the loop, Elfin. And it's no surprise you miss the point. You usually miss the point.

That publisher--eXcessica--was started from this site by Selena Kit, through invitation to publish, and probably is dominated by writers still posting to Literotica. Up the line, posters speculated on finding writers on Lit. who were better than they found in the marketplace. The point is that they can find these Lit. writers in the marketplace. There's a thread here for Lit. writers to notify works they've put in the marketplace. Readers can follow some of their favorite Lit. writers to the marketplace from here. And, as I posted, they can go to eXcessica and follow a lot of Lit. writers into the marketplace too.

The only point you are making involves the usual off-base razzing of me.

LATER: I see that Alessia Brio has resurrected an old thread today to remind that the "Coming Out" series of anthologies in the marketplace originated from Lit. as well and showcases Lit. writers.

 

[sr71plt]

I

If you know about lit and spend a lot of time here reading, first of all why are you going to go pay money for the same thing?

I always love it when a poster says something can't be done that I've been doing for six years. Nearly everything I have posted to Lit. is available in the marketplace too and sells (although I have more in the marketplace than at Lit.). It doesn't matter that it flies in the face of logic, it's working for those who are doing it--which is just tough for those who run on theory that reality has belied.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

(?)

The question I was addressing was one of crossover. And like I SAID, there's probably a higher chance of GM and other generalized genres having a crossover audience.

I never said anything "couldn't be done."

Do you think everyone who reads you here immediately rushes over to Amazon or wherever to find you? If so, a very small percentage. It's more likely that you've got separate audiences with a small crossover fan base. That's what I'd guess.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you publish under a different name? Do you advertise your lit stuff on your market works? I doubt it.

I still maintain that for anyone with a strong fetish, the marketplace is blah. You might find something there, you might look, but I would guess anyone with a strong lit allegiance rarely needs to look elsewhere. Doesn't mean they don't.

Really. You think the zillions who bought 50 Shades are here reading the BDSM top list? Doubt it.

If you think so, it's because you're completely out of touch with lit readers--shocker!

I always love it when a poster says something can't be done that I've been doing for six years. Nearly everything I have posted to Lit. is available in the marketplace too and sells (although I have more in the marketplace than at Lit.). It doesn't matter that it flies in the face of logic, it's working for those who are doing it--which is just tough for those who run on theory that reality has belied.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I'd certainly go find my favorite lit writers elsewhere. But I wouldn't buy unless I cannot get it here, or unless there's something expanded or different. If it's the exact same work, I wouldn't.

I would guess, call me crazy, most people are the same way. You would follow lit authors into the marketplace, and you would pay, but only if they take their stuff down or for anything new. The percentage that shells out money for what they can read in a second is probably quite small.

Once again, not having contributed a story here for nine years fingers you as well out of the loop, Elfin. And it's no surprise you miss the point. You usually miss the point.

That publisher--eXcessica--was started from this site by Selena Kit, through invitation to publish, and probably is dominated by writers still posting to Literotica. Up the line, posters speculated on finding writers on Lit. who were better than they found in the marketplace. The point is that they can find these Lit. writers in the marketplace. There's a thread here for Lit. writers to notify works they've put in the marketplace. Readers can follow some of their favorite Lit. writers to the marketplace from here. And, as I posted, they can go to eXcessica and follow a lot of Lit. writers into the marketplace too.

The only point you are making involves the usual off-base razzing of me.

LATER: I see that Alessia Brio has resurrected an old thread today to remind that the "Coming Out" series of anthologies in the marketplace originated from Lit. as well and showcases Lit. writers.

 

[sr71plt]

Do you think everyone who reads you here immediately rushes over to Amazon or wherever to find you? If so, a very small percentage. It's more likely that you've got separate audiences with a small crossover fan base. That's what I'd guess.

So what, who cares if Lit. members go to buy as well, as long as there are reads here and buys there? Some of them do, because I'll expand works I've put on Literotica and, when asked if a I can expand a Lit. story, I say I have for the marketplace, and there has been an added sale.

My publisher tells me that advertising on the book thread here results in greater sales and whenever I haven't announced here, he seems to know it, and asks me to do so. There's now a time gap between marketplace and here except for contest stories that run first here, and both here at Literotica and at Gaydemon, when I mention a coming story, I'm asked about it and they don't wait for the free version--they buy it.

The bottom line is what in your actual experience backs up your theories in any of this? I've actually done it, and I'm always surprised that the theories of what you can't do on this site and in the marketplace at the same time or in conjunction just don't pan out.

I like my royalties. I also like the high volume of readers here at Literotica. I'm doing just fine both ways.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you publish under a different name? Do you advertise your lit stuff on your market works? I doubt it.

Yes, most of what is put in the marketplace as habu is run here as sr71plt (because the system here wouldn't give me "habu" as an account name, although I don't think anyone else has that name). This is the only place where there's a split, though. It's habu on all other free sites I post to. The correlation also is made whenever it comes up with an e-mailer and it's made on the publisher's Web site.

The name recognition here and the senergy of having something new here at least weekly seems to be worth the promotion value in the marketplace. I do no extra promotion there.

I still maintain that for anyone with a strong fetish, the marketplace is blah. You might find something there, you might look, but I would guess anyone with a strong lit allegiance rarely needs to look elsewhere. Doesn't mean they don't.

And I point to the "guess" word you use. It's just a guess, isn't it? Those of us out there getting it done despite your "guesses" are just as pleased that your guesses keep you on the sidelines and out of competition.

I find your assumption that I don't know what Lit. readers or marketplace buyers will do amusing, but it's sort of a "I don't care." I'm on the top 250 popularity list here (at the top of the GM category list) and just returned from a week in Hilton Head, Charleston, and Savannah paid for by erotica book royalties? How about you?

Which gets back my posting that it always amuses me to read what I can't do that I've been doing for six years.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Carnal_Flower]

You're looking to argue when there is no argument.

I never said you or anyone couldn't "succeed" here on lit and in the marketplace, especially in a light genre. And like I said, expanded versions, yes.

This is a thread about the question of crossover audience and speculating openly about it. It's speculation, not dictation of what's what. Like I said, I would still guess you have separate audiences with a core crossover group who might buy the exact same stuff, but more likely anything expanded or new or unavailable elsewhere. Seems like simple logic to me. Yet you want to insist that what, anyone who reads anything of yours immediately goes out and buys it at the same time? Doesn't seem logical or rational to me, though of course, possible. That point seems quite important to you, I wonder why.

You just come across as defensive, when I never said you or anyone else could not succeed in making bucks. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself?

And since you bring yourself up and seem to want to talk about your "success," I think lc has a point. You are in the top 250 based on sheer volume and how long you've been here. Your ratings, comments, and viewership for each endless story you post do not point to success in any way--at least not lit success. Perhaps you like to console yourself with money for your poor performance here.

And since you brought yourself up, like I said, to me mainstream is almost always watered down crap. So wait, maybe it's true. The same ones who "read" you here DO rush out and buy you!

So what, who cares if Lit. members go to buy as well, as long as there are reads here and buys there? Some of them do, because I'll expand works I've put on Literotica and, when asked if a I can expand a Lit. story, I say I have for the marketplace, and there has been an added sale.

My publisher tells me that advertising on the book thread here results in greater sales and whenever I haven't announced here, he seems to know it, and asks me to do so. There's now a time gap between marketplace and here except for contest stories that run first here, and both here at Literotica and at Gaydemon, when I mention a coming story, I'm asked about it and they don't wait for the free version--they buy it.

The bottom line is what in your actual experience backs up your theories in any of this? I've actually done it, and I'm always surprised that the theories of what you can't do on this site and in the marketplace at the same time or in conjunction just don't pan out.

I like my royalties. I also like the high volume of readers here at Literotica. I'm doing just fine both ways.



Yes, most of what is put in the marketplace as habu is run here as sr71plt (because the system here wouldn't give me "habu" as an account name, although I don't think anyone else has that name). This is the only place where there's a split, though. It's habu on all other free sites I post to. The correlation also is made whenever it comes up with an e-mailer and it's made on the publisher's Web site.

The name recognition here and the senergy of having something new here at least weekly seems to be worth the promotion value in the marketplace. I do no extra promotion there.



And I point to the "guess" word you use. It's just a guess, isn't it? Those of us out there getting it done despite your "guesses" are just as pleased that your guesses keep you on the sidelines and out of competition.

I find your assumption that I don't know what Lit. readers or marketplace buyers will do amusing, but it's sort of a "I don't care." I'm on the top 250 popularity list here (at the top of the GM category list) and just returned from a week in Hilton Head, Charleston, and Savannah paid for by erotica book royalties? How about you?

Which gets back my posting that it always amuses me to read what I can't do that I've been doing for six years.

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