Q for the poets: lyrics?

[legerdemer]

Not sure where to ask this so how about here?

I've been toying with the idea of trying to write a song, and I was curious if any of you here have experience with that, direct or otherwise? I am very interested in the idea of writing lyrics to music. It seems very daunting... but hey, that's what goals are for, ey?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Happy birthday to you
You belong in a zoo
You look like a monkey
And you smell like one too.

Or this...

In May of 1941 or maybe 43
We sailed with Captain Tuna
The chicken of the sea.
We didn't sink the Bismarck
We didn't fight at all
We parked our boat in Nassau
And got smashed on alcohol.

Or this
Its a gay world, kiss my ass
(I'll post the lyrics when I remember them)

Lyrics are easy to write when your asshole is looser then yours.

 

[todski28]

Happy birthday to you
You belong in a zoo
You look like a monkey
And you smell like one too.

Or this...

In May of 1941 or maybe 43
We sailed with Captain Tuna
The chicken of the sea.
We didn't sink the Bismarck
We didn't fight at all
We parked our boat in Nassau
And got smashed on alcohol.

Or this
Its a gay world, kiss my ass
(I'll post the lyrics when I remember them)

Lyrics are easy to write when your asshole is looser then yours.

I'm s glad you've decided to join the forum James, I mean you offer so much comedic relief

 

[Magnetron]

Not sure where to ask this so how about here?

I've been toying with the idea of trying to write a song, and I was curious if any of you here have experience with that, direct or otherwise? I am very interested in the idea of writing lyrics to music. It seems very daunting... but hey, that's what goals are for, ey?

I write plenty of lyrics set to imaginary music. The only real obstacle is in conveying words as if they are actualy being sung i.e. stretching them out.

Would I like to hear them set to music someday? Sure, why not. But first and foremost, they are meant to be read.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm s glad you've decided to join the forum James, I mean you offer so much comedic relief

I think Disney squashed the gay world song, it came along about the time gay day hit Disney World. (SMALL WORLD tune). I suppose I could make up the lyrics.

 

[todski28]

I think Disney squashed the gay world song, it came along about the time gay day hit Disney World. (SMALL WORLD tune). I suppose I could make up the lyrics.

Strange for a whole section of civilization to have their theme song revoked. But there again civilization is crazy.


Ad to legerdemer ' s request

Pelegrino often writes song lyrics as poetry try looking at his thread pellegrino ' perpetual construction thread. Maybe even message him he had some brilliant songs in his submissions page also

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Strange for a whole section of civilization to have their theme song revoked. But there again civilization is crazy.


Ad to legerdemer ' s request

Pelegrino often writes song lyrics as poetry try looking at his thread pellegrino ' perpetual construction thread. Maybe even message him he had some brilliant songs in his submissions page also

I cant find it anywhere, even with the creators. So I wanna make my own lyrics for it. Then dedicate it to BUTTERS.

 

[butters]

be still, my beating heart....

 

[pelegrino]

I cant find it anywhere, even with the creators. So I wanna make my own lyrics for it. Then dedicate it to BUTTERS.

Seek and ye shall find.

My Opinion
If you try to write lyrics to an already existing melody, some basic rudiments of music are necessary, imo.
Things like stressed and unstressed bits within a bar, syllabic or melismatic intention (on the lyricist's part), and also rhythmical values ie, semibreves, minims, crochets, quavers etc. all basic stuff.

Also equally important is a basic knowledge of archetypal poetic feet, iambus, trochee, anapest etc, as understood through English poetic usage (if we write English lyrics, that is).

If you start with no pre-existing melody, then the above rudiments of music are desirable but not necessary-just leave the melodist take care of your words, but still knowledge of poetic feet and stresses is indispensable, imo.

Last but not least:
A song dedication is always written bellow the header (if any) but above the title and preferably in an italianized form, for example:

a Giacomo B Giovannifiglio

...or something like that...

 

[legerdemer]

Ah, finally, someone who knows whereof they speak! So glad you dropped in. Of course, your feedback makes me realize I'm thinking about building the Alhambra with a sand bucket and shovel. Much work ahead, but at least now I have a treasure map of sorts. Thank you kindly!!!!

( The dedication is, of course, the least of my problems. )

Seek and ye shall find.

My Opinion
If you try to write lyrics to an already existing melody, some basic rudiments of music are necessary, imo.
Things like stressed and unstressed bits within a bar, syllabic or melismatic intention (on the lyricist's part), and also rhythmical values ie, semibreves, minims, crochets, quavers etc. all basic stuff.

Also equally important is a basic knowledge of archetypal poetic feet, iambus, trochee, anapest etc, as understood through English poetic usage (if we write English lyrics, that is).

If you start with no pre-existing melody, then the above rudiments of music are desirable but not necessary-just leave the melodist take care of your words, but still knowledge of poetic feet and stresses is indispensable, imo.

Last but not least:
A song dedication is always written bellow the header (if any) but above the title and preferably in an italianized form, for example:

a Giacomo B Giovannifiglio

...or something like that...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Seek and ye shall find.

My Opinion
If you try to write lyrics to an already existing melody, some basic rudiments of music are necessary, imo.
Things like stressed and unstressed bits within a bar, syllabic or melismatic intention (on the lyricist's part), and also rhythmical values ie, semibreves, minims, crochets, quavers etc. all basic stuff.

Also equally important is a basic knowledge of archetypal poetic feet, iambus, trochee, anapest etc, as understood through English poetic usage (if we write English lyrics, that is).

If you start with no pre-existing melody, then the above rudiments of music are desirable but not necessary-just leave the melodist take care of your words, but still knowledge of poetic feet and stresses is indispensable, imo.

Last but not least:
A song dedication is always written bellow the header (if any) but above the title and preferably in an italianized form, for example:

a Giacomo B Giovannifiglio

...or something like that...

Purple Haze and Green Acres are the same song (different lyrics).

 

[Angeline]

Not sure where to ask this so how about here?

I've been toying with the idea of trying to write a song, and I was curious if any of you here have experience with that, direct or otherwise? I am very interested in the idea of writing lyrics to music. It seems very daunting... but hey, that's what goals are for, ey?

I've written lyrics, but never without someone else writing the music so I know how it will sound. (To be honest though, I don't think any of my lyrics were that good...) If you don't have someone to write with, you can always start out by listening to songs you like and trying to write your own lyrics to them. It's just a way to practice. Also some lyrics are a lot more structured than others, so it might help to have an idea of who you'd like to sound like, so you can try to emulate it. That's another way of practicing, imo. I think with any art one has to start out by trying to imitate what one likes and then practicing in order to develop one's own way of doing it.

You might want to try practicing form poems, too. They force you to work within specific structures. Writing in specific meters gets you thinking about how things sound--at least it works that way for me.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I've written lyrics, but never without someone else writing the music so I know how it will sound. (To be honest though, I don't think any of my lyrics were that good...) If you don't have someone to write with, you can always start out by listening to songs you like and trying to write your own lyrics to them. It's just a way to practice. Also some lyrics are a lot more structured than others, so it might help to have an idea of who you'd like to sound like, so you can try to emulate it. That's another way of practicing, imo. I think with any art one has to start out by trying to imitate what one likes and then practicing in order to develop one's own way of doing it.

You might want to try practicing form poems, too. They force you to work within specific structures. Writing in specific meters gets you thinking about how things sound--at least it works that way for me.

Aren't most songs more or less the Ballad form anyway?

 

[Angeline]

Aren't most songs more or less the Ballad form anyway?

I don't think so (because so many different kinds of music have lyrics), but I don't really feel qualified to answer that. Maybe Pelegrino or someone else has a more educated opinion.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

From Wikipee.....



Song structure or the musical forms of songs in popular music are typically sectional, repeating forms, such as strophic form and is generally a part of the songwriting process. Other common forms include thirty-two-bar form, verse-chorus form, and the twelve bar blues. Popular music songs are rarely composed using different music for each stanza of the lyrics (songs composed in this fashion are said to be "through-composed"). This form can be used in any structural difference in melodies. A common format is verse, pre-chorus, chorus, verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge (middle eight), verse, chorus.

Davidson and Heartwood list the formal sections found in songs as being the verse, chorus, bridge, hook, and refrain: "All songs are put together with some or all of these parts in a particular pattern."[1] The foundation of popular music are "verse" and "chorus". "Pop and rock songs nearly always have both a verse and a chorus. The primary difference between the two is that when the music of the verse returns, it is almost always given a new set of lyrics, whereas the chorus usually retains the same set of lyrics every time its music appears."[2] Both are essential elements, with the verse usually played first. Exceptions abound, with "She Loves You" by The Beatles being an early example in the rock music genre. Each verse usually employs the same melody (possibly with some slight modifications), while the lyrics usually change for each verse. The chorus (or "refrain") usually consists of a melodic and lyrical phrase which is repeated. Pop songs may have an introduction and coda ("tag"), but these elements are not essential to the identity of most songs. Pop songs often connect the verse and chorus via a bridge, which as its name suggests, is a section which connects the verse and chorus at one or more points in the song.

The verse and chorus are usually repeated throughout a song though the bridge, intro, and coda (also called an "outro") are usually only used once. Some pop songs may have a solo section, particularly in rock or blues influenced pop. During the solo section one or more instruments play a melodic line which may be the melody used by the singer, or, in blues or jazz influenced pop, the solo may be improvised based on the chord progression.

 

[Angeline]

From Wikipee.....



Song structure or the musical forms of songs in popular music are typically sectional, repeating forms, such as strophic form and is generally a part of the songwriting process. Other common forms include thirty-two-bar form, verse-chorus form, and the twelve bar blues. Popular music songs are rarely composed using different music for each stanza of the lyrics (songs composed in this fashion are said to be "through-composed"). This form can be used in any structural difference in melodies. A common format is verse, pre-chorus, chorus, verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge (middle eight), verse, chorus.

Davidson and Heartwood list the formal sections found in songs as being the verse, chorus, bridge, hook, and refrain: "All songs are put together with some or all of these parts in a particular pattern."[1] The foundation of popular music are "verse" and "chorus". "Pop and rock songs nearly always have both a verse and a chorus. The primary difference between the two is that when the music of the verse returns, it is almost always given a new set of lyrics, whereas the chorus usually retains the same set of lyrics every time its music appears."[2] Both are essential elements, with the verse usually played first. Exceptions abound, with "She Loves You" by The Beatles being an early example in the rock music genre. Each verse usually employs the same melody (possibly with some slight modifications), while the lyrics usually change for each verse. The chorus (or "refrain") usually consists of a melodic and lyrical phrase which is repeated. Pop songs may have an introduction and coda ("tag"), but these elements are not essential to the identity of most songs. Pop songs often connect the verse and chorus via a bridge, which as its name suggests, is a section which connects the verse and chorus at one or more points in the song.

The verse and chorus are usually repeated throughout a song though the bridge, intro, and coda (also called an "outro") are usually only used once. Some pop songs may have a solo section, particularly in rock or blues influenced pop. During the solo section one or more instruments play a melodic line which may be the melody used by the singer, or, in blues or jazz influenced pop, the solo may be improvised based on the chord progression.

And I thought you were just sitting by that mirror, meditating.

 

[legerdemer]

Whoa, step away for a few minutes (ok, hours) and people leave all sorts of presents on your doorstep!!

Thanks, folks, for all the input - I'll read it carefully soon, and may/will have questions.

I played piano a long long time ago, and was thinking of writing both the words and music. It will be shit for sure, if I even get to anything to start with. But it appeals and intrigues.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I've been trying to find the thread where I got you writing Rap but I can never find anything on here!

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

And I thought you were just sitting by that mirror, meditating.

What you can't see is my other hand busy at the keyboard.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

What you can't see is my other hand busy at the keyboard.

keyboard? Is that what they call it these days? I hope you find your middle C

 

[pelegrino]

keyboard? Is that what they call it these days? I hope you find your middle C

I thought the aim was to find G rather than C.
Bach seems to have been very good at it as his (Air "on the G string") proves!


(Would be a terrific challenge to write lyrics to that tune, but 4 simultaneous verses at a time to fit all four lines of music as given in scrolling score).


(edited to correct typo)

 

[pelegrino]

From Wikipee.....



Song structure or the musical forms of songs in popular music are typically sectional, repeating forms, such as strophic form and is generally a part of the songwriting process. Other common forms include thirty-two-bar form, verse-chorus form, and the twelve bar blues. Popular music songs are rarely composed using different music for each stanza of the lyrics (songs composed in this fashion are said to be "through-composed"). This form can be used in any structural difference in melodies. A common format is verse, pre-chorus, chorus, verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge (middle eight), verse, chorus.

Davidson and Heartwood list the formal sections found in songs as being the verse, chorus, bridge, hook, and refrain: "All songs are put together with some or all of these parts in a particular pattern."[1] The foundation of popular music are "verse" and "chorus". "Pop and rock songs nearly always have both a verse and a chorus. The primary difference between the two is that when the music of the verse returns, it is almost always given a new set of lyrics, whereas the chorus usually retains the same set of lyrics every time its music appears."[2] Both are essential elements, with the verse usually played first. Exceptions abound, with "She Loves You" by The Beatles being an early example in the rock music genre. Each verse usually employs the same melody (possibly with some slight modifications), while the lyrics usually change for each verse. The chorus (or "refrain") usually consists of a melodic and lyrical phrase which is repeated. Pop songs may have an introduction and coda ("tag"), but these elements are not essential to the identity of most songs. Pop songs often connect the verse and chorus via a bridge, which as its name suggests, is a section which connects the verse and chorus at one or more points in the song.

The verse and chorus are usually repeated throughout a song though the bridge, intro, and coda (also called an "outro") are usually only used once. Some pop songs may have a solo section, particularly in rock or blues influenced pop. During the solo section one or more instruments play a melodic line which may be the melody used by the singer, or, in blues or jazz influenced pop, the solo may be improvised based on the chord progression.

All this is good and sound information but it is preoccupied mainly with the pop/rock songs written in English as if other nations and song types/forms did not exist on this planet, therefore I dim it (as many other wiki articles) biased.

P.S.
"Strophic" should be taken as referring to songs with regular feet and rhythmic features as verses have in a poem written using similar techniques, therefore fitting a melody without much manipulation of it.
"Through Composed" is what a (much more able) composer would use to write melodic lines in order to fit a poem without any rhythmic futures, ie in free form as nearly all modern poetry. It is far more difficult as a technique to handle and takes a lot more knowledge.
That is why "through composed" is usually absent from all pop culture, while not as unusual in classical music.

If we are to discuss it any further I'll come back on these matters.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Seek and ye shall find.

My Opinion
If you try to write lyrics to an already existing melody, some basic rudiments of music are necessary, imo.
Things like stressed and unstressed bits within a bar, syllabic or melismatic intention (on the lyricist's part), and also rhythmical values ie, semibreves, minims, crochets, quavers etc. all basic stuff.

Also equally important is a basic knowledge of archetypal poetic feet, iambus, trochee, anapest etc, as understood through English poetic usage (if we write English lyrics, that is).

If you start with no pre-existing melody, then the above rudiments of music are desirable but not necessary-just leave the melodist take care of your words, but still knowledge of poetic feet and stresses is indispensable, imo.

Last but not least:
A song dedication is always written bellow the header (if any) but above the title and preferably in an italianized form, for example:

a Giacomo B Giovannifiglio

...or something like that...

Yes, there's some usefulness and veracity in that, Pelegrino, but it is also true, for example, that Leadbelly had little formal knowledge of music and less of English poetic usage, but quite handily syncopated an Irish air that Pete Seeger had played for him and wrote words to it. "Kisses Sweeter Than Wine," was quite a successful song, no matter how you look at it, con Figlio o senza Figlio.

P.S. Sorry I missed it the first time around, Pelegrino.
I doubt that legerdemer would dedicate anything to Giacomo, but then again, she might surprise me.

 

[pelegrino]

Yes, there's some usefulness and veracity in that, Pelegrino, but it is also true, for example, that Leadbelly had little formal knowledge of music and less of English poetic usage, but quite handily syncopated an Irish air that Pete Seeger had played for him and wrote words to it. "Kisses Sweeter Than Wine," was quite a successful song, no matter how you look at it, con Figlio o senza Figlio.

P.S. Sorry I missed it the first time around, Pelegrino.
I doubt that legerdemer would dedicate anything to Giacomo, but then again, she might surprise me.

That's ok, Tio, I'm glad you got it 2nd time.

Regarding Leadbelly, I believe that been able to syncopate a (presumably unsyncopated) air, testifies to his inborn lyrical/musical ability which makes him an exception to the rule.
Thanks for the information, I hope what I am writing is not taken as doctrine, I mean it only as helpful suggestions.

 

[legerdemer]

Pelegrino, very interesting. Could you give me an example of a through composed piece or two? I'd love at least no classical one as well. I can read French well and Italian passably, if that helps expand the music you'd refer me to. Probably what I might attempt would be more akin to folk, let's say. The melody would have to be pretty simple, as I'm hoping to do it all myself. If at all.

All this is good and sound information but it is preoccupied mainly with the pop/rock songs written in English as if other nations and song types/forms did not exist on this planet, therefore I dim it (as many other wiki articles) biased.

P.S.
"Strophic" should be taken as referring to songs with regular feet and rhythmic features as verses have in a poem written using similar techniques, therefore fitting a melody without much manipulation of it.
"Through Composed" is what a (much more able) composer would use to write melodic lines in order to fit a poem without any rhythmic futures, ie in free form as nearly all modern poetry. It is far more difficult as a technique to handle and takes a lot more knowledge.
That is why "through composed" is usually absent from all pop culture, while not as unusual in classical music.

If we are to discuss it any further I'll come back on these matters.