First story - fantasy - constructive feedback welcome

[RedStarFic]

I've posted my first story (it feels good to see it accepted by the moderator doesn't it?). I was originally looking for an editor, but didn't get any response from the few I tried and as I was waiting for days for a response each time I tried one, I decided to throw caution to the wind and publish anyway.

The main thing I was after from an editor was some constructive feedback. I do typos like a BOSS so while I check another set of eyes would have been good, but generally I think I'm reasonably literate. I'm not a writer / author though, and don't write stories. I've read the guides, but I don't have a great feel for structure, pace, length, and that was really the main reason for me wanting an editor - so this is why I'm posting here, for that kind of feedback, even if it's after the event I can apply it if I write more.

As this is a part one, there's a lot of 'setting the scene' which I can skip in future installments, which should help the pace to flow better, but I also wonder if I've overdone the story and underdone the sticky parts..

Oh, and it's fantasy, so if you don't dig pointy ears turn off now. I don't think I'll stick to the genre, but for a first story it works for me for a number of reasons:

1) Provided I don't contradict myself, I can make it up as I go along and not have to worry too much about real world details.

2) I've read a lot of fantasy in my time. I actually like it. Especially if it's done well.

3) I wanted the main protagonists to be at the opposite end of a cultural spectrum, literally unknown to one another other than preconceived ideas that I can play with as I develop the story. I didn't want to mess with real race/culture differences - that's too hard for the likes of me - so a human / elf works. Except they aren't fluffy dance through the trees elves. Hopefully that is made clear when you read it.

So, long intro done - I'd appreciate some constructive feedback please, before I attempt a Chapter 2:

https://www.literotica.com/s/the-pirate-and-the-elf-ch-01

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The story isn't my cuppa tea but that's me not you.

Two things stick out. 1: Get rid of the passive verbs. Passive verbs make action tentative rather than definite. Where youre tempted to write: IS AM ARE WAS WERE BE BEING BEEN SHALL WILL SHOULD WOULD MAY MIGHT MUST CAN COULD HAVE HAD HAS etc don't. I POSTED MY STORY is better than I HAVE POSTED MY STORY. 2. Drop narrative where its possible to simply reveal purpose thru action and dialog. SIMPLY is the key term. The corollary to this is, avoid NOMINALIZATIONS....names for processes: LUV, LIBERTY, FREEDOM. The goal is to make most of your prose concrete, tangible stuff, nominalizations like respect and admiration and lust aren't concrete or tangible. Most girls prefer cocks in their butts to lust in their hearts.

 

[RedStarFic]

Two good points - obvious when someone else points them out, not so when you're caught up writing, far too easy to forget rules. Thanks - I guess an editor would have got me on those too.

Thanks for taking the time - especially if it isn't your kind of story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Let me add passive verbs work in dialog when the character is a passive personality. When they aren't clear and direct or assertive err in favor of behavioral congruence.

 

[8letters]

Overall, an excellent first story. I read down to where he takes off her hood. You didn't overexplain, which is the most common problem of a newbie. For example, you didn't describe how beautiful the elf queen was when we first meet her, which was the right thing to do as it didn't matter in that scene. Instead, you got us into the story and then fed us background as it fit into what was currently happening.

The main problem is that you need to improve your writing skills.

Attack. He darted past a solid sword thrust and lashed out with the razor tip of his blade, carving a gauge across the man's face that would have caused any normal man to howl in pain and debilitate them enough to take them out of a fight. Instead a mailed fist grabbed the blade and twisted it. Francis almost dropped it in his surprise. The Templar was mutilated, bone was showing where cheek should have been and his teeth grinned out through the hole where his upper lip should have been, yet he had hardly flinched.

Here's how I found that writing awkward:
* "Attack"? The one word sentence made no sense to me
* The second sentence was too long
* "Lashed out"? Wasn't it a thrust or a jab? Lashed out implies to me a desperate, blind attack
* "razor tip of his blade" What's a razor tip? Is the tip unusually sharp? If not, you are wasting words to tells us that his blade was sharp, which we already know
* "Carving a gauge"? I think you meant gouge
* "that would have caused any normal man to howl in pain and debilitate them enough to take them out of a fight" You're being redundant. Should be "that would have caused a normal man to howl in pain" or "that would have debilitated a normal man" or "that would have taken a normal man out of a fight". In "debilitate them enough to take them out of a fight", you switched from past tense to present and from singular to plural
* "Instead a mailed fist". Should have a comma after "Instead". Phrasing it that way, it's not clear who owns the mailed fist. It seems to imply a previously unmentioned foe. "Instead, the Templar grabbed the blade with his mailed fist and twisted it." works better for me
* "The Templar was mutilated" - redundant as we already know he has a gouge across his face
* "bone was showing where cheek should have been and his teeth grinned out through the hole where his upper lip should have been, yet he had hardly flinched" - having the description of the injury here is wrong. If you are going to describe the injury, it should be right after the gouge or you should add something to the effect that Francis looks again at his face. The "yet he had hardly flinched" should also be right after the Templar is injured and before the Templar grabs Francis' blade.

 

[NaokoSmith]

This story has a lot of excellent elements to it. Characters are strong and there's plenty of gore. Evidently you have a tight plot planned with plenty of action to come. Fab to include both elves and pirates.

Many classic errors of first time fantasy writers are in evidence. (As a fantasy writer myself I have committed all these grave sins so I know all about them!) Sentences 'run on', they are too long. There are repetitions. There are a lot of adjectives.

A moment later and she was composed, her face a mask as she reached up to gently grasp his spent cock, pausing only to clean it with her mouth, gently licking away the last of the cum oozing from the end, before carefully tucking it away in his breeches and lacing them up again.


A moment later and she was composed. Her face resumed its emotionless mask. She reached up to grasp his spent cock. She cleaned it with her mouth, licking away the last of the cum oozing from the slit in the end. She tucked his cock gently away in his breeches and laced them up.


The conjunction 'but' is used far too often.

A good editor will soon help you clean this all up and lace the story in its breeches ready for action

I started writing a separate new story series set in modern times to deliberately train myself to write tighter sentences which worked to get across their meaning, instead of relying on lots of flowery description. I knew I could write well so hadn't bothered with an editor before, but I got editorial help with that series and it enormously improved my writing. These days my editor is usually saying: "Oh God, that doesn't sound good," and getting suckered into the story, instead of picking up on my punctuation.

Another point is the sucking off of the pirate's cock. This is all from his Point of View. Nicely done, but fantasy readers are mostly women so you may get a better result if you describe it from her PoV. Of course you have to weigh up whether you want to hide her PoV until the end, when you reveal that she has a secret Plan in mind.

This is also the kind of thing a good editor might point up for you to consider.



PS I edit, sometimes, if people are very nice to me

 

[CWatson]

You're using an awful lot of comma splices, a comma splice is basically when you use a comma in place of some other punctuation that ought to be there, typically a period or a semicolon, it's not precisely an error but it isn't exactly helping either. </self-demonstrating example>

As it was, Lathiende had not wanted to leave anything to chance, the ritual needed him aroused.

Should've been a semi-colon.

The warrior's breath was getting deeper and louder in the silence of the temple, he tipped his head back slightly as his Queen kissed his neck, the tip of her tongue tracing a pattern behind his slender pointed ear.

Should've been a period.

Another issue I had with the prologue is your use of Telling instead of Showing.

"Imric, you stay." she said to the guard known by the court to be her lover.

This gets across the information you need, but it does so very bluntly. We now know exactly where Imric stands in relation to Queen Lathiende... and that's a little bit boring. Part of the fun of any speculative-fiction work (fantasy, sci-fi, horror, etc) is learning the rules of the game, and The Reader might feel a little cheated if you just spell things out. Imagine instead if Her Grace had asked Imric to stay, and The Reader was confused... until she started grabbing his cock. Then The Reader would've been really confused... until she started talking to him in a way that was clearly very intimate, and he responded in kind, indicating that the two have a history. You can even have a quick exchange of dialogue where she says that she will need to ask him for more than she ever has before, and he accepts this, but we don't know what she's going to ask him for (his cock? she's clearly had that before. His butt? Do elven queens like pegging? Well, you never know...) until the knife comes out.

Speculative Fiction readers are used to not knowing all the answers. They understand that certain things will be spelled out eventually. You can use this to your advantage in matters of both pacing and tension.

Finally, logistical matters.

1) The Templar may be brave, but how many men did Francis have? Enough to, say, push the Templar Knights overboard, where their heavy plate would drag them down?

2) Why were Francis's corsairs engaging blade-to-blade? They have grapeshot, which means they have cannon. If they have cannon, they have gunpowder. If they have gunpowder, they have guns. And if they are engaging armored men with swords instead of guns, this must be their absolute first battle ever. The thing about swords is that they weren't rendered obsolete by guns--they were rendered obsolete by plate mail, which resists almost all slashes or cuts. The only ways to get through plate mail are penetrating attacks--either carefully-aimed stabs from a sword (whilst your friends buy you time with their lives), an archer's bow or crossbow... or guns. In a stereotypical sword fight, swinging them around, a man in plate mail is invincible--which is why, the instant plate mail hit the scene, swords began evolving into stabbing implements. (Do about five minutes of research into Oakeshott's typography.) So why did Francis arm his men with swords and throw them into a fight they were destined to lose, when he had the option of, y'know, not doing so? Arm every man with a pistol and shot--things pirates traditionally have--and the fight would've been over with much less bloodshed. At least, on the corsairs' side.

3) Why was the Templar not wearing a full helm? Obviously, he seems pretty invulnerable to pain, but it's easier to do things like "eat" or "speak" with lips and tongue and teeth intact. He should be protecting his person. And since he's already committed himself to drowning by donning the plate mail, a helm is no great imposition.

4) Why did Francis have a rapier? Pirates are typically armed with cutlasses--curved blades meant for swinging. They are able to use them because they live in a post-gunpowder environment, where plate mail has been abandoned, and slashing swords are useful again. Additionally, a cutlass is useful as a tool in the other things a sailor needs to do--cutting wood or rope, for example, and maybe some cooking. (I'm not up-to-date on what sailors did prior to the Napoleonic Wars.) Rapiers, on the other hand, were side swords meant for civil dueling, and they rely primarily on stabbing. (They did have edges, but mostly to prevent what your Templar did: someone just grabbing the blade. Fortunately, your Templar is immune to pain; and Francis did the right thing by moving inside his guard.) Additionally, a rapier would have a lot of trouble parrying the blows of a longsword. The difference in handling between a longsword and a rapier can be encapsulated by swinging a golf club around: hold it by the handle for the longsword, and hold it by the head for the rapier. Do you think the rapier can deflect a longsword? I know it can't. (But the rapier would indeed be faster, and Francis correctly uses his speed to his advantage.)

You may be writing a fantasy, but fantasy is driven by history. There are certain things that are true--that must be true--in your fictional world, because they will be true in any world ever created. Unless, that is, you specifically go out of your way to explain why they aren't like real life. (There are places where technology diverged; in Japan, for instance, swordsmanship and swords developed differently because the isles have enough iron for swords, but not enough for armor.) The problem is, you haven't done that here, and it leaves me wary of reading further. Of course, I'm a picky son-of-a-bitch and a student of history, so you can take that with a grain of salt.

 

[8letters]

fantasy readers are mostly women

Really? I would have guessed mostly men.

 

[Everyday_Man]

This is one of your paragraphs

Attack. He darted past a solid sword thrust and lashed out with the razor tip of his blade, carving a gauge across the man's face that would have caused any normal man to howl in pain and debilitate them enough to take them out of a fight. Instead a mailed fist grabbed the blade and twisted it. Francis almost dropped it in his surprise. The Templar was mutilated, bone was showing where cheek should have been and his teeth grinned out through the hole where his upper lip should have been, yet he had hardly flinched.



It could be rewritten like this:

Attacking was the action that would keep him alive. He darted past a solid sword thrust and lashed out with the razor tip of his blade, carving a gouge across the man's face that should have left him howling in pain upon the floor. Instead, Francis was surprised by the mailed fist that darted to grasp his blade in answer to his thrust. The grip was an iron vice; rendering the rapier useless. The Templar offered him a savage smile, teeth and bone running with blood, flashing through the shredded flesh of his mutilated face.


There are a lot of guidelines to writing, many (99%) I don't know and they should be followed AS GUIDELINES (if everything read the same, what's the point?) ... but I know one thing about fantasy reading and I love these images. "Razor tip blade" ... puts the sword in my mind. ... "Solid sword thrust" sounds better in my ears than 'sword thrust' and makes me think it was the kind of thrust that would cave in bone. ... I don't mind you mentioning he was mutilated after already knowing it (the description could be better) ... because that image you were creating was fun to picture and read.

One thing about fantasy action scenes (maybe any scene) is finding that medium where you have added to much or taken out to much. You can't always use the same blueprint unless you want to sound mechanical.

Bend the guidelines to add excitement to the writing, but don't get carried away. It's all in the phrasing.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Really? I would have guessed mostly men.

I'm thinking you may be right. I move in the fantasy romance world, mostly girls there, LOL.

 

[Iceprincess12]

The background part of the story was a bit dry. The 2nd part could have been the intro or instead of telling the story of the elves, make it action packed. Immerse us in a battle the elves fought, maybe a turning point that brought the queen to where she was now. Just reading about how desperate the situation was, didn't make it feel that way.

"close behind brave Imric. The male stood proudly, as if to attention, awaiting his orders."

It sounds weird to give him a name then call him the male. If he wasn't standing to attention, how was he standing?

Also he didn't see the dagger...neither did I, instead of feeling suspense, I was confused as to where she used it. You just jumped over that part, then talk about him falling and finally he gurgled blood. Make it more clear and suspenseful.

Fantasy/scifi is fun because it is supposed to push the boundaries of imagination and make us feel wonder. Her oral skills were the same as any woman and his reactions were also. Where is the wonder and excitement in that? As many centuries as she have been alive, her idea of a blow job is getting him hard, deep throating, writhing her tongue and swallowing...yawn. The sex was boring. My expectations were set much higher than this. He reacted the same way as any guy does. You can't just create this mythical world where everything is great but the sex. If you can substitute any character into the sex scenes, then you haven't really created anything new.

When you first introduced the captain, I thought he was a heroic figure, but he turned out to be another horny ordinary guy. Disappointed in that.

Temple knight and templar? Are they the same? I was confused about that.

I can't say I enjoyed it overall. Not enough wonder or mystery. The ordinary sex killed it for me. Also your long intro-don't give me a reason to dislike it before I read it. Excuses you make about your writing will just stay in my mind and I will look for the errors. A simple "please critique" and a story link works better.

 

[Lien_Geller]

Here ya go!

These are my thoughts, read ‘em at your peril! Here goes!

Your opening prologue has a problem of info dumping. Almost right from the start it feels less like a thrilling adventure and more like a history textbook.

“The elves possessed old magic, enchantments that bent nature to their will, that could twist the minds of their opponents, but the empire had the numbers, technology, and a bloody-minded world view that demanded that everyone and everything bow to their new religion.”

I’m not going to berate you for that too much, because you don’t linger on it. It’s just that stuff like that doesn’t really invest me in the story. Remember that characters always ground plot points best in the readers mind. Maybe start out by having the royal court entering the temple with some of her subjects questioning if crossing a god of revenge is a wise course of action. You’d get to start with the momentum of the argument, and then explain the situation through the dialogue rather than just splurge it out in the narrative.

The actual events of the prologue are interesting and dramatic, it’s just the presentation you need to work on a little. A good opening catches the reader’s attention immediately and focuses it somewhere interesting. Don’t start by reciting history.

Moving on then.

Ha! Captain Francis Rijksgeld. This isn’t a mistake really, but to me that sounds like someone sneezed whilst trying to say his second name. If you asked me to pronounce that I wouldn’t even know where to begin. Someone needs to buy a vowel or something.

Yes! I do get beaten up a lot by people from Iceland. Why do you ask?

Keeping things rolling, the sea battle between the ships was slightly underwhelming. Don’t tell me that one temple knight is worth 10 normal men. Show me! This is a great opportunity for some real action in the story, starting out with a battle to introduce the daring captain and his crew. We see the battle through his eyes as he cuts through enemy crewmen to come up against a fierce temple knight who has the upper hand due to his tireless training and hardened armour. A dangerous and exciting duel is fought until finally the captain slips some hanging rigging around the knight’s neck and hoofs him over the bow!

I just feel like I’m getting the cliff notes and you’re missing opportunities to have a lot of fun.

Aaand then he gets into a fight with a Templar Knight. I stand corrected. Although the “Fuck! A fucking Templar!” remark did give me a chuckle. I’m not exactly sure why but it reminded me of something that might be said in a Monty Python sketch or something. The actual fight that follows was quite good! Lots of ducking and weaving. Wait a second, who’s the hooded guy? Can’t think about that now, got me a Templar to slice and dice!

The beats of the action work quite well, but you need to fold the exposition into the action a little bit more. Again, dialogue works best for this sort of thing. Maybe the captain starts making jokes in an effort to distract the knight, and then we see that the knight is a steady and unfeeling oncoming monster through his actions and his silence. Showing, not telling. We’d also learn more about the character of the captain as he’d obviously colour his dialogue with his own personality and opinions. This allows us to invest in him more. Lots of cogs to keep-a-turnin’ when you’re doing this stuff!

The elf showing up was interesting, as were the sexy times that followed. The sex itself was well-written and spicy. The elf maiden succumbing to the ragged rogue is a classic trope, but you handle it well and it has a sufficiently good set up that the payoff comes believably.

All in all it’s an interesting start and a good first attempt! Keep up the good work.

 

[NaokoSmith]

LOL, you are getting a lot of hefty critique here! lucky you. I just want to add that it is a good original story, please do keep writing it. I think you know yourself it could have been polished up, hence you were looking for an editor.

Lien_Geller is deservedly one of the most popular fantasy writers on here, with hundreds of enthusiastic feedback comments. His stories are worth reading for fun! and also to see what makes a strong fantasy story scoot along.

 

[RedStarFic]

Thank you all!

Wow.

I don't really disagree with anything anyone has said so, really, thank you all for your help. Some of it is obvious when you see it pointed out to you - but it's not when you're writing. I need to add in a self editing phase I was lacking - rather than getting carried away in my rush to see something out there. I guess I got excited..

Happy with the story obviously doesn't translate into a well-told story, so I need to work on my discipline and not get carried away.

I should probably have persevered in my hunt for an editor too. I'll take all of your comments and I will be referring back to them when I'm finishing part 2. I'll probably reedit part 1 when that's done too. There are some real obvious ones I totally missed in there... :/

I can't stress how much I appreciate you all taking the time do this. Thank you.

 

[8letters]

I should probably have persevered in my hunt for an editor too.

My guess is that the easy way to find an editor is to put a request for an editor at the end of your story in an Author's Notes. If someone likes your writing, they're more likely to edit for you. Be nice to NaokoSmith and she may edit for you.

 

[observer7]

Another point is the sucking off of the pirate's cock. This is all from his Point of View. Nicely done, but fantasy readers are mostly women so you may get a better result if you describe it from her PoV.

....wow. That is the most ignorant statement I have ever read from someone claiming to read Lien Geller (and brown nose something mighty). Wouldn't trust you as my editor. Like guys saying gamers and comic book readers are all pimple face boys.

Romance, historical romance, fine. Mostly women. Good Fantasy is read by both equally. Note it just in case you actually do edit for some newbie in the category.

 

[CyranoJ]

Fantasy Romance being a species of Romance, and arguably at least a potential fit with the tropes the writer is using, I don't find Naoko's comment all that outrageous in any larger sense, since FWICT it's a field she's pretty well familiar with. It would seem odd to me to rush to declaring her "ignorant" (and perhaps a wee bit insulting to talk of "brown nosing" instead of just honest admiration) but that's me.

For the OP. Aside from what's already been covered: I quite like the story so far, it's hot and it does leave me curious about future instalments. So, job well done there. I'm not going to dissect the prose and the world-building, but a couple of things:

- In the Prologue scene, I'm getting that the elven queen uses a loophole in the magic -- through employing her erstwhile lover's blood as a kind of mask -- to attain her objective. But I did feel like it could have been handled with a bit more clarity. Even a well-placed "Imric's blood proved satisfactory to the god" or something would show how the queen was being cunning instead of having to tell us.

- Pace Lien_Geller, I didn't mind the name Rijksgeld. Way too many fantasy stories feel like their characters' names were mad-libbed from random passages of French or English chivalric romances and Tolkien novels. Mix it up, I says. In a world where R.A. Salvatore can get away with a protagonist named Drizzt Do'Urden (or Frank Herbert can get away with a protagonist named Muad'Dib), nothing is taboo. (I also like that the name, looked at closely, actually has a kind of jokey relevance to his role in the story.)

- Having defended NaokoSmith a bit above, I don't necessarily agree with her about the POV in the blowjob scene. The viewpoint you employ fits with the deception* being perpetrated on the character, doing it from the opposite viewpoint would give us too much information too soon, so I'd say trust your instincts on this one.

(* BTW I think the subsequent explanation of that deception is -- I know this is being maddeningly contrary having asked for more clarity from an earlier scene, so I'm invoking the Walt Whitman Clause on this -- perhaps a bit on the nose. You could similarly convey the inversion of power going on with just a sly glint in the elf maiden's eye.)

I'm going to recommend a book which maybe you've seen and maybe you haven't. It's historical fiction rather than fantasy, but with the peculiar mixture of weaponries and combat styles your setting is using I think you might find it useful. It's The Religion, first book in the Tannhauser trilogy, and its description of the Battle of Malta is a pretty solid depiction of military history in the final stages of the transition from the age of the armoured knight to their total eclipse by the age of gunpowder. It's also cracking good fun and pretty darned sexy to boot, so judging by what I see in your prose I think you might really enjoy it.

Keep going and best of luck.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I don't find Naoko's comment all that outrageous in any larger sense, since FWICT it's a field she's pretty well familiar with. It would seem odd to me to rush to declaring her "ignorant" (and perhaps a wee bit insulting to talk of "brown nosing" instead of just honest admiration) but that's me.

Awww, thank you honey. I am well known for my uh ... editing skills , so I didn't take the comments too hard, although I think they are kinda rude. I already admitted I was wrong about the fantasy fandom; some people love to kick a person when they are down! (I'm into more refined pleasures myself. )

You and that rude poster are probably right about the PoV, though.

My guess is that the easy way to find an editor is to put a request for an editor at the end of your story in an Author's Notes. If someone likes your writing, they're more likely to edit for you. Be nice to NaokoSmith and she may edit for you.

It is very difficult to find a good editor, especially if you are looking in particular genres which have certain conventions for writing. I find fantasy romance, as opposed to fantasy per se, is really tough because the writing style is so particular.

I feel bad, because I never even go in the Editor's Board and see who is asking for editing - which is the best way to find someone. (The volunteer lists are full of people who aren't actually editing any longer and won't reply.) I always have a backlist of people who want me to check their stories over, so I have got very lazy ... about editing, I mean! I think a good way is to look around for people who are active in the Authors' Hangout and Feedback threads, whose writing you admire, and ask them direct. Putting that note up here to ask for feedback and say you wish you had an editor was a good move too, since that drew my attention.

I tend to notice when people have a particular topic they need help with, which they are struggling to find support with; I started editing for LaRascasse when he wanted help with a lesbian story. I saw a thread the other day about an inter-racial lesbian BDSM story and I know I could help with that one, too, but I am diffident about putting myself forward for editing because my life is so busy! and I don't want to disappoint people. If you come knocking (politely!) at my door, I will actually very rarely say No. I am just a big ole pussy-cat y'know <snerk>.

 

[robertreams]

Everyday man, let's go farther:

Attacking would keep him alive. He darted past a sword thrust, lashing out with the razor tip of his blade, carving a gouge across the man's face that should have left him howling in pain. Instead, Francis was surprised that the mailed fist grasped his blade like an iron vice; rendering the rapier useless. The Templar offered a savage smile, bloody teeth and bone flashing through the shredded flesh of his mutilated face.

 

[Everyday_Man]

Everyday man, let's go farther:

Attacking would keep him alive. He darted past a sword thrust, lashing out with the razor tip of his blade, carving a gouge across the man's face that should have left him howling in pain. Instead, Francis was surprised that the mailed fist grasped his blade like an iron vice; rendering the rapier useless. The Templar offered a savage smile, bloody teeth and bone flashing through the shredded flesh of his mutilated face.

Even better with a third to look at the original.

Edit: I guess what that means is, the more you look at something, the better you can make it.

 

[robertreams]

Second look: Too many "that"s. Lots of unnecessary "while"s and "as"s

Imric gurgled, drowning (as he drowned) in the blood pouring from his throat. He knew (instinctively, that) he was dying for his beloved queen, did not fight as she, chanting, lowered him gently. (lovingly one or the other)