The fine underage line... synopsis below

[LaRascasse]

So... given how my first LW story went better than expected, I am eager to add to my tally in that category. I have the germ of another idea, but before I take it further, I would appreciate an opinion on its feasibility. The reason? It flirts with Lit's cardinal underage rule.

The story is in 3rd person omniscient, but the main character is a girl who is clearly not 18. Her age is never explicitly mentioned anywhere. The range she would fit into is 13-14. Also, in case any of you were wondering, no she does not have sex with anybody. But, yes most of the story is told with the focus on her.

The idea is that she has what is heavily implied to be an Elektra complex (an emotional one), but her philandering mother got custody of her in a very acrimonious divorce. She knows she is "different" from her peers in school (read - brilliant, but cold and detached).

Her mother and her new lover copulate like bunnies, something she can hear (even rarely see) and does not approve of at all.

The main story is where she quietly bides her time in her mother's (and new beau's place) recording herself crawling and crying suggestively. She quietly sneaks her "home movies" into cabinets in her new home. Finally one day, she uses a lighter to burn parts of her forearm and cuts herself in a few select places and "tries badly to hide them" from her teacher in school. One thing leads to another and her mom and her beau suddenly have a lot of explaining to do to the cops. Things to do not improve when the supposed "hidden stash" of movies comes to light.

Finally, the story ends with her getting her wish of living with her Dad while those she hates rot in jail.

Does anything jump out as rejection material? I can see several potential places, but according to me since she is not a participant in any sexual activity, it is technically okay. Give your advice.

 

[unregistered]

 

[R. Richard]

I had my story, "The Great Pretenders" rejected by a publisher simply because and adult male has a 'fake date' with an underage girl. There is no sex at all in the story. (The male has been dumped by his date, at the last second and he must have a date, for social reasons.)

 

[desertslave]

I suspect that a child even having awareness of sexual activities, especially as the primary character in the story, won't fly under Laurel's watch.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

So... given how my first LW story went better than expected, I am eager to add to my tally in that category. I have the germ of another idea, but before I take it further, I would appreciate an opinion on its feasibility. The reason? It flirts with Lit's cardinal underage rule.

The story is in 3rd person omniscient, but the main character is a girl who is clearly not 18. Her age is never explicitly mentioned anywhere. The range she would fit into is 13-14. Also, in case any of you were wondering, no she does not have sex with anybody. But, yes most of the story is told with the focus on her.

The idea is that she has what is heavily implied to be an Elektra complex (an emotional one), but her philandering mother got custody of her in a very acrimonious divorce. She knows she is "different" from her peers in school (read - brilliant, but cold and detached).

Her mother and her new lover copulate like bunnies, something she can hear (even rarely see) and does not approve of at all.

The main story is where she quietly bides her time in her mother's (and new beau's place) recording herself crawling and crying suggestively. She quietly sneaks her "home movies" into cabinets in her new home. Finally one day, she uses a lighter to burn parts of her forearm and cuts herself in a few select places and "tries badly to hide them" from her teacher in school. One thing leads to another and her mom and her beau suddenly have a lot of explaining to do to the cops. Things to do not improve when the supposed "hidden stash" of movies comes to light.

Finally, the story ends with her getting her wish of living with her Dad while those she hates rot in jail.

Does anything jump out as rejection material? I can see several potential places, but according to me since she is not a participant in any sexual activity, it is technically okay. Give your advice.

Silly. The 18 year old rule is inviolate. Why break the rules?

 

[PennLady]

I suspect that a child even having awareness of sexual activities, especially as the primary character in the story, won't fly under Laurel's watch.

I think you're on to it here. Laurel has said before that anyone under 18 can't be in a sexually explicit situation, even seeing it, and I would bet hearing comes under the same ban.

I suppose the only thing here is if the story is told from the POV of the mom and/or boyfriend and the daughter isn't a ... direct? character (can't think of the word I want here). You get what they observe of the daughter?

Anyway, overall I'm not sure the story would work here but the only real way to know is to ask Laurel.

 

[sr71plt]

Yep. Depicting actually hearing and/or viewing graphically described sex is a form of involvement in that sex and probably will be seen that way if depicting it is necessary to your storyline.

Think you need to ask yourself why it's important she's underage and being exposed to sex acts--and you probably will have answered your own question. If it's integral to the guts of the story, write it up without describing the sex graphically and try to place it in the mainstream, where such stories are tolerated (without the sex being graphic).

 

[Weird Harold]

Does anything jump out as rejection material?

Pretty much the whole concept as far as I can tell.

It sounds like a fairly good story, but I don't think it would fly at Lit.

 

[3113]

Agree with everyone else; I fear this story isn't going to fly. However, I get what you're going for and why you want it in the kid's pov.

There are sites that don't have the age rule. Rather than change the concept...perhaps you should change where you post it? Does it need to be posted on Lit?

 

[Hypoxia]

IMHO a good concept and it COULD fly at LIT if she's not described as witnessing or being aroused by live sex. In fact, leave explicit sex out of the story. She knows they're coupling but no details are written. That MIGHT get by.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yeah...No it won't fly. She films them. I assume, of course that makes and ass out of you and me, they are having sex as she does. So, no go.

Of course you might get a publisher to take it, if you name was E L James.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Agree with everyone else; I fear this story isn't going to fly. However, I get what you're going for and why you want it in the kid's pov.

There are sites that don't have the age rule. Rather than change the concept...perhaps you should change where you post it? Does it need to be posted on Lit?

That, or de-emphasise the sex and post it to Non-Erotic.

The site's policy as enforced doesn't require that minors and sex are in totally separate worlds; I had one that mentioned a 15-year-old girl getting pregnant, no miracles involved, and I didn't get any trouble. The issue is more with eroticising under-age sexuality or going into explicit detail.

I would think something like this would be permitted: "As Sue settled into bed, she heard a thumping from upstairs. Her mother and stepfather were going at it. Again." But a thrust-by-thrust "FUCK ME HARDER" scene would more likely be prohibited.

Whatever you end up deciding, might want to run the idea by Laurel first, if you're planning to post here.

 

[PennLady]

FWIW, after a quick look to see just what an Elektra complex is, I don't see why this girl has to be so young. Parents get custody until a child is 18, right? So why can't she just be 18? She can still have these issues, and perhaps at that age, it'd be easier for her to get her revenge (so to speak).

But if it is important to you, I agree with others -- write it up but post it elsewhere.

 

[lovecraft68]

I know you well enough to know you want to write this as a serious piece and you're not trying to cater to the people who get a thrill out of underage.

But having said that, first off I agree with others that just hearing sex is "too close'

But even if you write that out if a lot of story is seen from the eyes of a thirteen year old you're not going to pull this off.

If by some chance you included a note and got Laurel to bite on it(which I don't think she will) I think you'll get a lot of people jumping the gun and reporting it.

I'd suggest maybe stories on line for this, but I think-maybe Pennlady can confirm-that they upped their age limit to 16 from previously not having one.

Unfortunately if you write this it may be just for yourself, unless you want to try asstr, but I don't think you want to be associated with what else is over there.

I understand your points and admire your desire to write something along the lines of a "real story" but its not going to fly here.

 

[RejectReality]

SOL's (relatively) new age bar is 14. Lush's is 16.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well see above, age her one year to 14 and you can post there as is or even let her see some of the sex.

Here isn't an option

 

[lovecraft68]

SOL's (relatively) new age bar is 14. Lush's is 16.

Lush really has their shit together, its too bad they're so small, at least compared to here.

They must have really been having issues with the incest stories to cut it and make this site even bigger.

 

[RejectReality]

Lush really has their shit together, its too bad they're so small, at least compared to here.

They must have really been having issues with the incest stories to cut it and make this site even bigger.

I don't think they ever wanted them in the first place, but knew it was a necessity to get any kind of market share. Most of the mods and the owner seemed positively giddy when they wiped out the category with only a forum post as notice and about two hours of warning.

They were less so when the traffic went into free fall.

They have an incest category again -- if not by name. After severely restricting any family-flavored stories immediately after killing the category, it's down to using the word "Step" and putting it in the "Taboo" category now. They didn't do a 180, but they hit at least 175.

And now they're on a paid membership model because ad revenue has plummeted.

I don't know if "Having their shit together" is really an accurate description LOL

 

[JKendallDane]

Lush really has their shit together, its too bad they're so small, at least compared to here.

Face it...Lit is the eBay of online erotica. It was first and it was instantly, and has remained, the biggest and best known.

And just like eBay, all the Johnny-come-latelies that followed have to accept where they fall in the rankings. Some have already died off. Others are puttering along but not serious competition. A few niche sites such as gayauthors have made some inroads at challenging Lit's numbers of stories in certain genres, but the one thing they will most likely be fighting forever is Lit's powerhouse punch of traffic. When Lit is ranked by Alexa at #2500 worldwide and Lush is more than 5000 places back from there, the biggest number of eyeballs wins automatically. (gayauthors ranks at #490,982 so guess where *I* want my stories showcased?)

The one thing Lit is completely unlike eBay with though, is over the fifteen years it's existed, Laurel and Manu have managed to resist constant changes and being fixated on flash & glitter and unnecessary bells & whistles. It might look like Archie Bunker's chair in places, but with what really counts...the stories themselves, the breakout of specific categories, and a fairly decent search engine...it's more than sufficient and acceptable.

Most of the other sites are "prettier" and may have a function or two that Lit doesn't, but they just don't have the views that makes Lit king of the game.

 

[RejectReality]

They were consistently close to #5000 ( had been below it for a few months in the high 4K range ) before killing the incest category.

April will be a year since that decision was made. That's how bad the tailspin was.

When Lit is ranked by Alexa at #2500 worldwide and Lush is more than 5000 places back from there, the biggest number of eyeballs wins automatically. (gayauthors ranks at #490,982 so guess where *I* want my stories showcased?)

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think they ever wanted them in the first place, but knew it was a necessity to get any kind of market share. Most of the mods and the owner seemed positively giddy when they wiped out the category with only a forum post as notice and about two hours of warning.

They were less so when the traffic went into free fall.

They have an incest category again -- if not by name. After severely restricting any family-flavored stories immediately after killing the category, it's down to using the word "Step" and putting it in the "Taboo" category now. They didn't do a 180, but they hit at least 175.

And now they're on a paid membership model because ad revenue has plummeted.

I don't know if "Having their shit together" is really an accurate description LOL

So they are doing the amazon "nothing to see here" route with PI and taboo.

What I mean as far as their act together is.

A staff of editors, not just one and real rules that are strictly enforced as in no rape, but also no non consent category, just a rough (consensual) sex category and just about all rule breaking stories are rejected.

They contacted me out of the blue last year because someone was trying to submit one of my stories there but under a different pen name and they search the story as part of the process and asked if it was me over there with another name, I said no and they said they would not post the story.

On here people are lifting stories from people and re-posting them here

Their boards are moderated meaning the likes of scouries and the majority of the GB would be tossed in a heart beat.

So maybe the term "They give a shit" would be more accurate.

But the fact is, that is another sad reminder that most people today want instant gratification over seeing something done right.

 

[Hypoxia]

That, or de-emphasise the sex and post it to Non-Erotic.

Where it will hardly be read by anybody.

The site's policy as enforced doesn't require that minors and sex are in totally separate worlds; I had one that mentioned a 15-year-old girl getting pregnant, no miracles involved, and I didn't get any trouble. The issue is more with eroticising under-age sexuality or going into explicit detail.

I would think something like this would be permitted: "As Sue settled into bed, she heard a thumping from upstairs. Her mother and stepfather were going at it. Again." But a thrust-by-thrust "FUCK ME HARDER" scene would more likely be prohibited.

In various of my stories where a young MILF is needed, I write of girls who were either wild young things or were (legally) married-off at a young age. I definitely do NOT describe their impregnation process, just mention that it happened. In other of my stories, an underage narrator is aware that nearby elders are having sex, but again with no details; they saw the car bouncing, or heard groans and creaking bedsprings, but nothing more -- the narrator remains unaroused. I've seen more than a few well-regarded LIT pieces where an underage teen tells one parent that the other is cheating, with mentions (but no descriptions) of witnessed couplings. In all such, there is no "eroticising under-age sexuality" that I see; the pieces are obviously not kiddie pr0n. I *know* that Laurel approved some of these after initial rejection, so this approach works here.

Whatever you end up deciding, might want to run the idea by Laurel first, if you're planning to post here.

Yup.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Face it...Lit is the eBay of online erotica. It was first and it was instantly, and has remained, the biggest and best known.

And just like eBay, all the Johnny-come-latelies that followed have to accept where they fall in the rankings. Some have already died off. Others are puttering along but not serious competition. A few niche sites such as gayauthors have made some inroads at challenging Lit's numbers of stories in certain genres, but the one thing they will most likely be fighting forever is Lit's powerhouse punch of traffic. When Lit is ranked by Alexa at #2500 worldwide and Lush is more than 5000 places back from there, the biggest number of eyeballs wins automatically. (gayauthors ranks at #490,982 so guess where *I* want my stories showcased?)

The one thing Lit is completely unlike eBay with though, is over the fifteen years it's existed, Laurel and Manu have managed to resist constant changes and being fixated on flash & glitter and unnecessary bells & whistles. It might look like Archie Bunker's chair in places, but with what really counts...the stories themselves, the breakout of specific categories, and a fairly decent search engine...it's more than sufficient and acceptable.

Most of the other sites are "prettier" and may have a function or two that Lit doesn't, but they just don't have the views that makes Lit king of the game.

I don't think LIT was first.

 

[LaRascasse]

The site's policy as enforced doesn't require that minors and sex are in totally separate worlds; I had one that mentioned a 15-year-old girl getting pregnant, no miracles involved, and I didn't get any trouble. The issue is more with eroticising under-age sexuality or going into explicit detail.

I would think something like this would be permitted: "As Sue settled into bed, she heard a thumping from upstairs. Her mother and stepfather were going at it. Again." But a thrust-by-thrust "FUCK ME HARDER" scene would more likely be prohibited.

Whatever you end up deciding, might want to run the idea by Laurel first, if you're planning to post here.

Interesting you mention that, because I never planned to explicitly give the age of the girl. But yes, I see your point that even hearing (and peeking) could be misconstrued as sexual "participation".

FWIW, after a quick look to see just what an Elektra complex is, I don't see why this girl has to be so young. Parents get custody until a child is 18, right? So why can't she just be 18? She can still have these issues, and perhaps at that age, it'd be easier for her to get her revenge (so to speak).

But if it is important to you, I agree with others -- write it up but post it elsewhere.

I suppose I could age her up to 18, but then the rest of it wouldn't feel right. This story works best with a cold, remorseless pre-pubescent psychopath. By the time she is 18, I suspect she will have done a LOT more than simply frame her mom and step-dad from child abuse.

Besides, "abuse" of an 18 yr old loses the shock factor which would be necessary for the police and others to do their thing. Again, just my view.

I know you well enough to know you want to write this as a serious piece and you're not trying to cater to the people who get a thrill out of underage.

But having said that, first off I agree with others that just hearing sex is "too close'

But even if you write that out if a lot of story is seen from the eyes of a thirteen year old you're not going to pull this off.

If by some chance you included a note and got Laurel to bite on it(which I don't think she will) I think you'll get a lot of people jumping the gun and reporting it.

I'd suggest maybe stories on line for this, but I think-maybe Pennlady can confirm-that they upped their age limit to 16 from previously not having one.

Unfortunately if you write this it may be just for yourself, unless you want to try asstr, but I don't think you want to be associated with what else is over there.

I understand your points and admire your desire to write something along the lines of a "real story" but its not going to fly here.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. This story is actually designed to be the prologue of sorts to a multi-chaptered effort where the girl (now in HS/college) is still dangerously in love with her father to the point of disposing of any woman she deems too close. No points for guessing which category those chapters will go in

I simply thought this prologue would establish her nicely before the rest.

 

[Mister_Chris]

steer clear

When I was contemplating story ideas, I floated a concept where a 16 year old asked a family friend, a photographer, to take some sexy pictures of her... and he refused, giving her a good lecture on why sexy photos at her age were a bad idea.

I received a lot of counsel from wiser members not to do it; and I subsequently scrapped the idea. The counsel was correct.

Consider the number of stories here on Lit that magically have an (obviously) very sexually experienced teen demonstrating their skills on their 18th birthday... without the slightest reference as to how or when they obtained those skills. The reader might imagine it, or infer it... but you must not reference it, even in the most distant and general fashion.

There are some stories on Lit that reference pre-eighteen nudity; as in "my family were nudists, so I'd grown up seeing my Mom and sisters in the nude". But the nudity must be explicitly distanced from sexual experiences, including an underage teen hearing their parents fucking in the next room.

That's all I know...