Ominous prediction indeed.

[Que]

You overestimate your effect, on most things I imagine.

I save physical violence for people stupid enough to act in reality the way you do from behind a computer monitor. Normally, as soon as it appears that there may be some physical consequences their false bravado falls away and they're all simpering apologies. I imagine you're no different.

Oh I see. There are times in your life where physical violence is acceptable to you. That being when you are close enough to get your hands on them.

:nods:

Nope, no anger management issues there, no-sir!

I wouldn't know anything about anger management issues. That usually comes from people who tend to bottle things up and then erupt like St. Helens. But you seem to know quite a bit (or think you do) about that sort of thing. Experience I imagine, which explains the way you behave when you're "safe".

The first step in getting help will be to break through the denial. Just because (I assume) you have not been court-mandated to seek help doesn't mean that your issues are not self-evident.

Why would I not be "safe" in your direct presence? That sounds just like C-slings line of reasoning.

I don't know about New Jersey, but where I live the concept of "fighting words" is a pretty high bar to meet. Physical assault is frowned on. What about in New Jersey? Would the prospect of being incarcerated for assault and battery not restrain your actions if we were having this exact same conversation man to man as it were? (I'm being generous there, I don't actually consider "men" that feel the need to make threats, veiled or otherwise to be more "manly.")

"So Johnny, whatever do you mean?" -Doc Holiday

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

It's a wash?

Apparently you do not know the difference between a tax credit and a tax deduction. The deduct-ability of the State taxes amounts to 3% off of your federal taxes leaving you exposed to 6%.

If it worked they way you suggested I would be in favor of each state mirroring the Federal Tax rates and therefore keeping every single dollar in the state it is generated in, leaving the Feds with zero. The Feds would then have to go hat in hand to the States and beg for contributions.

So, try again.

The only honest thing you have posted in this matter is your disdain for people making over 500K.

Want to start over?

How about. "New Jersey State income taxes for median earners is less ridiculous. If you are successful, when you do reach the truly ridiculous level of taxation you deserve it."

There, I tidied up your argument for you.

That wasn't so difficult to reach an honest assessment of New Jersey's ridiculous income tax, was it?

: pats head :

According to the IRS 1040 schedule A, ALL state income tax OR all state sales tax is counted as a deduction from your taxable income. Not 3%. Unless of course your deductions are in excess of $150K.

You're not an accountant I hope.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Que]

As well you should be. Social Security is far more dependent on population growth. As a matter of fact every socialist scheme under the sun is nothing more than a cleverly disguised (or not so cleverly as the case may be) Ponzi scheme that is totally dependent on ever greater numbers paying in than taking out. Pyramid schemes that carries within them the seeds of their own destruction.

It is the argument of the socialist that capitalism requires an ever growing population. They make the argument for their own purposes. Like the democrat party giving the republicans advice on how to win more elections. *chuckle*

Ishmael

~returning to discussion with the grownups~


I intended to point out that only Social Security benefits from population growth, but that is only true if those new "workers" are actually workers and are paying into the ponzi scheme.

Toube reluctantly admits that the present system cannot possibly work as constituted and his solve is removing the cap on SS contributions and means testing. That makes it not a retirement system at all but simply a redistributive welfare system where you reward those that age without assets and punish those that succeed and save.

We have already gone over the falls on SS, and it's best we admit it and pay for the past folly from the general fund, while releasing future generations from participating.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Oh I see. There are times in your life where physical violence is acceptable to you. That being when you are close enough to get your hands on them.

:nods:

Nope, no anger management issues there, no-sir!

The first step in getting help will be to break through the denial. Just because (I assume) you have not been court-mandated to seek help doesn't mean that your issues are not self-evident.

Why would I not be "safe" in your direct presence? That sounds just like C-slings line of reasoning.

I don't know about New Jersey, but where I live the concept of "fighting words" is a pretty high bar to meet. Physical assault is frowned on. What about in New Jersey? Would the prospect of being incarcerated for assault and battery not restrain your actions if we were having this exact same conversation man to man as it were? (I'm being generous there, I don't actually consider "men" that feel the need to make threats, veiled or otherwise to be more "manly.")

"So Johnny, whatever do you mean?" -Doc Holiday

Of course there are times when physical violence is acceptable, and in some cases advisable. Are you trying to say there isn't. ever?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

U_D has a soulmate named mdbigdee...

 

[Ishmael]

Well, for those that want 'open borders' you can get my vote by doing just one little thing.

Totally eliminate ALL social safety nets. None, zero, nada. Of course the unskilled citizen and the unskilled immigrants will be murdering each other over a job at Mickey D's, but who cares? The borders will be open and the blood running in the streets has all the makings of a real spiffy reality show without the manufactured drama. It'll be the real thing kiddies.

Ishmael

 

[eyer]

For the record, I'm going to say I don't recall ever saying that, or even remembering the particular issue. You said I campaigned on the matter, so show me the quote. You made the charge now back it up. If you're correct I'll apologize. Until then I think it's bullshit.

How 'bout we do this:

If I go back and bring back to you your position then, and it confirms what I've posted...

...how 'bout you just admitting the hypocrite you are when you profess free speech but then campaign exactly against it?

And, of course, if I go back and discover I'm mistaken, that you championed the girl's free speech right then...

...I'll admit I lied?

Maybe it was for Neolithic man but it hasn't been the case for modern man for quite a while now. Today's governments do not abide the natural right to "roam" wherever one wants. If you want to "roam" you are going to need a passport unless you're military, then you will need your identification card and a copy of your orders.

You are now standing on the ground that man-made law trumps natural right...

...you understand that, yes?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The wild, wild Southwest...

 

[PayDay]

It's always telling when those who pose as championing individual liberty...

...actually campaign for closed borders.

What is a country without borders?

Can we perhaps pretend we're adults? Nobody believes in whatever nebulous thing personal liberty is and we are all to some degree or another "Fuck you as long as I've got mine." Illegals specifically but non-Americans as a whole aren't part of the team and despite any rational assessment displaying that we'd be better off (materials wise, most likely not labor wise. But whatever moron said work is good needs to be hung for his ignorance) raising the rest of the world up to closer levels to us we won't because fuck you that's why.

Take a chill pill and read the rant:
Some of us understand personal liberty and the difference it holds with freedom.

It's not "fuck you I got mine" it's "fuck you, I earned mine, why can't you? ...and I don't want to pay for anymore of your free shit."

You 've got shit all kinds of twisted yo.

There is already a fully functioning immigration system that is being ignored for free passes. The only reason any system in this country exists is because your parents and their parents and some of us worked for it, full well knowing the dangers of it running unchecked.

One of the main dynamics for creating immigration laws was to keep out criminals and lazy people, race didn't matter so much. It doesn't matter now either. You could be see-thru with spotted rainbow dots and from another universe, it still wouldn't matter: still get frakulated: earn your citizen ship and get a job. You'll find many advocates for a solid border feel the same way.

We already offer a temporary pass to come in and acclimate, duh?

...and, dude, you have lost your mind. Work is good. It enriches your life. Because of work:

When you are born here, or often to citizen parents, you start out with free untaxed dollars a month for your parents to take care of you if you can't function. If you work to become a citizen, or already are, you get to acess the money a month system as well. They call it Social Security: created by work, supported by work (and never allowed to keep the 'surplus' -- which in turn gets spent, taking away from everybody else who paid into that system for themselves and posterity).

You can only get more more free stuff with the systems we already have. They call it unemployment insurance for just in case some shit goes down.

Medicare already insures those who cannot get it on their own. For reason other than "I don't want, or have, to work."

We already buy food for 2 years for a new born baby if the mother cannot afford it. Same goes for families and shelters, many supported by public programs. We all want to eat steak or mcribs or veggies, but sometimes we get stuck with beans and rice. Some persons like beans and rice.

We already offer asylum potential to oppressed individuals. The court gives you an almost free attorney if you want one.

Our education system at least gives a kid a chance to learn to read and continue to do so, and a handful of food for each day they go. We give ESL classes to legal foreign workers.

All of this is done in posterity by our ancestors, from their hard work, and now we're going broke to do it because persons are asking for more when they could just go get a job and stop mooching.

We could afford it if they would say: "Thanks for the temporary support let me go do a shitty job to earn and save money, and replenish the system that works totally fine if our government and I would stop exploiting it."

...and the problem is not solely that they won't work, but that we can't afford to just dump 1million (let alone 10+ milion) people into the system. It will implode into debt immediately, hence the term "flood gates" is used to scare you, and it should scare you, it's a scary idea. It gets scarier if you throw robots into the mix.

...but instead they want to give more free shit to more people for nothing but breaking our laws set up to Protect US.

No one makes anyone want a mercedes, I don't want one. I'd rather blow the doors off of a 1997 saturn for pocket change, and I would love every minute of it, and I would feel like some people do behind the wheel of a mercedes. Well my government is asking for a tesla powered porche with giant mercedes rims wrapped in shimmering electric tires when they need the full size van their driving (which, by the way, needs an oil change and preventative maintaining, skilled labor jobs).

My government is saying: "Fuck you I got mine new tax base and votes" anytime I see the words 'amnesty' or 'program' .

You are not entitled to more shit unless you or your parents (ancestors) set it up that way legally, or you earned it yourself. Why can't their own governments help them? Why can't their parents work hard and save money to make better lives for their kids at home.

How much is enough? Go to work and find out. Work is good.

So what more free shit do you believe that you want for immigrants again just because they don't have any belief in working together to fix their own home country and make it like our country? A country like our's is where they want to be, obviously, because they would scale deserts, fences, and break laws to do it.

To end with a quote & to hit the original OP article spot on, methinks: "If you can work with your hands you will never go hungry."

You are, by the way, entitled to feel differently about this, because of hard work done by someone. Don't forget to point out my typos.

 

[PayDay]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/01/new.gif

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahas.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Natural Right is not a suicide pact nor does it preclude reasonable measures of self-defense and that is what a border is when what is on the other side is not an advocate of natural rights, but of some other system of rights that do not recognize individual liberty.

 

[RobDownSouth]

U_D has a soulmate named mdbigdee...

and this soulmate has kicked your pathetic half-breed ass up one side of this board and down the other today.

Sensei K would be shamed that his star pupil has folded his teepee and slunk off into the night...but then, you've got good reason: you're obese, old, and have "atrial fibrillation" and "walking pneumonia". You'd likely snap your own knee joint trying to do a snap kick nowadays.

Simply put, you're a pathetic fatass shell of the man you used to be, and the man you used to be wasn't much to begin with.

 

[Que]

According to the IRS 1040 schedule A, ALL state income tax OR all state sales tax is counted as a deduction from your taxable income. Not 3%. Unless of course your deductions are in excess of $150K.

You're not an accountant I hope.

Let's try again.

A deduction is not a credit. You make 500,000 and pay New Jersey just shy of $45,000 (as opposed to California where you pay $0)

I am estimating that the person in the $500,000 (net) income range pays Federal taxes in the range of about 1/3 or 33% for ease of math.

Whether you are in Texas or NJ you pay about $165,000 before consideration of your NJ tax of 9% or your Texas tax of 0%

You get to reduce your taxable income in New Jersey to $465,000 this is called a deduction. You do not get to take your tax bill of $165,000 and reduce it to $120,000 by simply subtracting your New Jersey Taxes paid as a "wash" as you inaccurately term it.

The taxes on your adjusted gross income at $455,000 ends up being a little over $150,000, rather than $165,000. NOT $120,000 as a "wash' would suggest.

Guess what the percentage of income $195,000 in state and local taxes over the Texas figure of $165,000 ends up being? About 6%. What was New Jersey's tax again? 9%. What is the difference? 3%. Therefore the deduct-ability (so long as the federal tax code foolishly continues to allow that) saves you as I said, 3% on your taxes otherwise due.

So you make $500,000 and pay $195,000 versus Texans that pay $165,000 for the same income.

I don't know how your math works but paying an extra $30,000 out of pocket is not a "wash" the way I do account for money.

How much money did you "save" by deducting your New Jersey State taxes? Trick question, you saved nothing. You SPENT $45,000 to cheat the Feds out of $15,000. Not a good tax dodge, to be honest.

Bonus question:

The 15,000 thousand dollars that you don;t have to now send to the feds (since New Jersey already raped you,) What percentage of your income would that be?

Yes, you got it now! 3%

Just as I said.

 

[unregistered]

 

[eyer]

Well, for those that want 'open borders' you can get my vote by doing just one little thing.

Totally eliminate ALL social safety nets.

"Totally" is completely compassionateless...

...but I've certainly always been in favor of open borders and against forced social compensation upon any individual for any other individual.

Even though they are two completely different issues...

...it's the force needed to unnaturally close borders and the force needed to make individuals pay for another individual that I find naturally offensive to individual liberty.

Problem is, though, that instead of standing fully upon American founding principles and fighting uncompromisingly for both...

...far, far too many do compromise, and so we are left with neither the natural right to roam freely, nor the natural right to pursue our own happiness the way we - and only we - wish (as long as those ways do not violate the very same natural rights all human beings inherently possess equally).

Open borders and no forced wealth redistribution...

...what could be more unhyprocritically American than that.

 

[Ishmael]

~returning to discussion with the grownups~


I intended to point out that only Social Security benefits from population growth, but that is only true if those new "workers" are actually workers and are paying into the ponzi scheme.

Toube reluctantly admits that the present system cannot possibly work as constituted and his solve is removing the cap on SS contributions and means testing. That makes it not a retirement system at all but simply a redistributive welfare system where you reward those that age without assets and punish those that succeed and save.

We have already gone over the falls on SS, and it's best we admit it and pay for the past folly from the general fund, while releasing future generations from participating.

Let's start with that. We already are paying from the general fund. The SS 'lock box' is nothing more than a pile of IOU's moldering away in a file cabinet somewhere in West Virginia. Jimmy Carter pulled that switheroo off in the late 70's.

Returning to "they all are" Ponzi schemes. As a % of the population the same numbers are on some sort of welfare as there were when the "War on Poverty" was started. The financial burden of having to carry the indolent rises in direct proportion to the population. And as more 'benefits' are distributed in the effort to buy votes the burden on productive society increases proportionately. At some point the burden on the productive reaches a point where they either pick up their marbles and go play elsewhere or they cash in and say, "Hey, I want on that gravy train too."

Ishmael

 

[Que]

Of course there are times when physical violence is acceptable, and in some cases advisable. Are you trying to say there isn't. ever?

#AscriptionAgain. I am never "trying to say" anything. I am not saying anything close to what you suggest. No rational person could draw that inference.

Try again.

You are not suggesting, you are stating quite clearly (in C-sling style) that the obvious consequence of physical violence would ensue if the same words that I type here were uttered in your actual presence would prevent me or anyone else in contradicting you in exactly the manner I do here.

If you are "trying to ask" if there is ever a time that violence is acceptable, I would of course agree that such times do exist.

...and no, having someone come out from behind a keyboard and say the exact same things they said to your face is not one of those times that violence is acceptable.

If you wish to test your luck with my local criminal justice system and are willing to make the trip, I'll pm you my name and address. You go ahead and print out any passages that you think are fighting words, I'll be more than happy to read them to you at whatever distance your sense of personal space prefers and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[PayDay]

1. I'm curious how much it keeps insurance down and if it actually equals out to the cost of full time workers.
2. Creating artificial employment is stupid. I mean we could have people dig holes and fill them in or as someone mentioned everybody become glaziers and go around breaking windows. Which if you think labor/employment is good would be a grand plan. If you think material wealth (actual stuff) is better then it makes no more sense then burning down a library and rewriting everything by hand.
3. Clearly it has at best marginal effects on the price. Maybe this is just the effect of being gainfully employed but the 10-30 cent difference we seem to get (with a few exceptions like Hawaii being insane) in gas prices amounts to like 1.50-3.00 per fill up. I fill up like twice a month. I almost throw that much money at people just cus it's funny. Don't get me started on if I happen to see Sour Skittles.

If we're going to create labor for labor's sake there are worlds better places than that. Let's pay people to go to the fucking gym and stay in shape and lower our medical bills and have more people fit for military service if needed.

#1. Same here.
#2. Unskilled labor has to go somewhere. It's fiscally responsible.
#3. Costs of doing business always exist when doing business, to tie into #1, the savings goes right into the hands of the consumer. The government also gains from employment taxes.

To quote(paraphrase) Other People's Money : "They can only change the rules, not the game."

Wrong again.

Jersey's state income tax isn't ridiculously high. In fact it's lower than Minnesota, Oregon, California, Hawaii, and Iowa. Property taxes are high, the highest median in the country, and our schools show it (3rd highest rating in the country).

Gasoline taxes pay for the roads for the most part. I suppose it could be changed over to a per mile driven tax. But it actually makes more sense the way it is. Larger, less fuel efficient vehicles cause more road wear and tear, burn more fuel, and so foot more of the tax bill.

Much better---^ Exactly. Fuel in Jersey is set up like a 'vice tax' so to speak, it's genious and doesn't cause a problem unless the economy as a whole has a problem, but it took a hard hit with national price like everything else. Gas was a national average $1.86 the day BO took office. People bought more fuel then so there was a larger fuel tax surplus in Jersey. It has hit our budget considerably along with the chase for fuel efficiency.

Is New Jersey's income tax lower than Texas?

Some of the highest taxation rates (combined) in the nation man, and some if the worst insurance rates, too.

Cite?

I can tell you are getting antsy that no one is paying you any mind. You tend to act out when you are ignored too long. Thought I would throw you a bone.

get 'm

You overestimate your effect, on most things I imagine.

That's the point of this thread...

 

[Que]

"Totally" is completely compassionateless...

...but I've certainly always been in favor of open borders and against forced social compensation upon any individual for any other individual.

Even though they are two completely different issues...

...it's the force needed to unnaturally close borders and the force needed to make individuals pay for another individual that I find naturally offensive to individual liberty.

Problem is, though, that instead of standing fully upon American founding principles and fighting uncompromisingly for both...

...far, far too many do compromise, and so we are left with neither the natural right to roam freely, nor the natural right to pursue our own happiness the way we - and only we - wish (as long as those ways do not violate the very same natural rights all human beings inherently possess equally).

Open borders and no forced wealth redistribution...

...what could be more unhyprocritically American than that.

In a philosophical sense, you are correct, but we have never had unfettered markets from the beginning. Employers SHOULD be able to import whatever labor they desire and pay them whatever those workers will accept. See the railroads and Chinese laborers.

We are never going to roll back the concept of a minimum wage, much less one dollar of the welfare state.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

In a philosophical sense, you are correct, but we have never had unfettered markets from the beginning. Employers SHOULD be able to import whatever labor they desire and pay them whatever those workers will accept. See the railroads and Chinese laborers.

We are never going to roll back the concept of a minimum wage, much less one dollar of the welfare state.

Only if it a two-way street, otherwise it is a suicide pact.

 

[eyer]

Is it, or is it not, every individual's natural right to freely roam wherever s/he likes as long as s/he does not violate the natural individual rights of any other?

Maybe it was for Neolithic man but it hasn't been the case for modern man for quite a while now. Today's governments do not abide the natural right to "roam" wherever one wants. If you want to "roam" you are going to need a passport unless you're military, then you will need your identification card and a copy of your orders.

You are now standing on the ground that man-made law trumps natural right...

...you understand that, yes?

The ground I'm standing on is called reality. I know you're quite unfamiliar with it, but tough shit, get an education. When in Rome, you do what the Romans do.

This record of your political position that man-made law trumps natural right...

...is accurate, is it not, vette?

Speak now...

...or forever hold your hypocritical peace.

Produce the link that supports your charge and I'll apologize. I do not recall campaigning against a high school girl and her free speech regarding her governor. So get on with it...back it up.

"I'll apologize" ain't the deal...

...you have to admit to being a full-fledged hypocrite.

Agree...

...and I'll bring back your words to you.

You may wish to consult by PM with your dingleberry buddy 4less before agreeing to those terms, though...

...'cause I bet the bozo remembers you two standing up for Republican Brownback and against the girl just as well as I do.

 

[eyer]

Of course there are times when physical violence is acceptable, and in some cases advisable. Are you trying to say there isn't. ever?

Hey, UD:

Tell us again about your right to bust your kid in the mouth if he ever says anything you disagree with...

...and, oh yeah: how's the sex offender wife doing?

 

[PayDay]

Produce the link that supports your charge and I'll apologize. I do not recall campaigning against a high school girl and her free speech regarding her governor. So get on with it...back it up.

get 'm

 

[eyer]

BTW, vette:

It was back around the end of this month 3 years ago...

...if that helps your anxiety look more.