"Uncoupling": Open Marriage vs. Divorce

[3113]

So, we know that an "open marriage" is nothing new, but this seems to be it's latest incarnation. How different? Well, the formerly married couple doesn't divorce, but don't remain sexual partners or spouses. Just financial and "family" partners. Meaning, they stay together in the same house raising any offspring; they do not consider themselves married to each other, and are free to see other people. On paper, by way of taxes and all the rest, they're still married.

Video here.

Aims of this over divorce seem to be:
(1) Avoid costs of divorce
(2) Maintain family unit for kid
(3) Maintain financial security for all
(4) Maintain familial relations with well-liked ex

I didn't get to the end of the video, so I don't know if they mention what one or the other will do if they want to marry someone else. I presume they'll divorce as bigamy is still illegal.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, and so?

 

[Rozalin_0123]

Seems a little odd to me, but I'm in no position to judge. I'll check out the video later when I have my laptop handy.

 

[lovecraft68]

But ramifications are....you will never meet anyone who will be serious with you knowing you still live with your ex, First they may not believe it, second they will be jealous and never feel like you are going to be a true partner to them and they are right.

If you're okay spending the rest of your days(at least until kids are adults) getting one night stands and never having a real relationship, then fine.

The other thing is what does it do to the kids? Kids pick up on stress and tension and unhappiness. The people who "do it for the kids" are doing every one a disservice. themselves and the kids.

When its over its over.

People are getting lazier and weaker as time goes on.

 

[sr71plt]

People come in all varieties and inclinations. Saying people never do something (or anything) doesn't really mean much in real life.

 

[lovecraft68]

People come in all varieties and inclinations. Saying people never do something (or anything) doesn't really mean much in real life.

I've been through a divorce that involved kids, you haven't so I can speak from "real life"

If people could live amicably with their spouse, why the hell would they be getting a divorce. Living a happy life and being true to yourself is more important than "can I pay the rent"

And most importantly, I default back to thinking about what it does to the kids. If people want to tell themselves it doesn't bother the kids, they can do that. I'm sure their children will thank them later with therapy and all sorts of behavioral issues.

 

[jomar]

Haven't seen the video yet 3, but from what you write I assume it formalizes what happens unspoken in many marriages.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

The biggest mistake married couples make is staying together "for the kids". Children pick up on when parents fight and often blame themselves for it. That is no environment for a child to live in. Period.

Besides, there are plenty of people who live "legally separated" for years because of divorce costs and whatnot. The idea of coexisting with an ex seems asinine.

 

[sr71plt]

Yeah, yeah, LC, I realize you think you speak for everyone on everything.

Well, you don't on this topic. We don't all spill our guts about marriage arrangements like you do on this forum, so you have no exclusively knowledgeable handle on this topic. All you can say is that you got it wrong at least once.

 

[lovecraft68]

Jealousy is an ugly and powerful emotion and rare would be a couple that both partners would not suffer from it.

Go ahead and live with your ex husband and try to bring a guy home or the other way around.

I am sure somewhere there are some people who can pull it off, but it would be the anomaly, not the average, average people are not mature enough.

And one last time, what does it do to the kids...raised in a convenient, but loveless, environment.

The people who do this are selfish which is fine, its a common trait, but to say doing it for the 'family unit' is bullshit.

 

[jomar]

The biggest mistake married couples make is staying together "for the kids". Children pick up on when parents fight and often blame themselves for it. That is no environment for a child to live in. Period.

Besides, there are plenty of people who live "legally separated" for years because of divorce costs and whatnot. The idea of coexisting with an ex seems asinine.

I don't disagree, but lots of folk don't fight. They just co-exist with no conflict or tension, leading separate lives. But that does also communicate to kids affection-wise.

 

[sr71plt]

The bottom line is that anyone who thinks they can talk for everyone on how marriages work or don't is full of crap.

 

[jomar]

The bottom line is that anyone who thinks they can talk for everyone on how marriages work or don't is full of crap.

Tis true. Though John Gottman has a handle on the research of how successful couples get it right.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

I don't disagree, but lots of folk don't fight. They just co-exist with no conflict or tension, leading separate lives. But that does also communicate to kids affection-wise.

I suppose that is true but you're essentially trading one set of problems for another.

The bottom line is that anyone who thinks they can talk for everyone on how marriages work or don't is full of crap.

Just stop.

 

[3113]

But ramifications are....you will never meet anyone who will be serious with you knowing you still live with your ex, First they may not believe it, second they will be jealous and never feel like you are going to be a true partner to them and they are right.

Well, the couple in question made a rule that there's no inviting anyone to the house to meet the kid or ex unless they are a serious prospect. The wife has presumably met one such prospect and he gets along with both the kid and the ex. The vibe I'm getting is the one that we sometimes see with poly-marriages, a woman living with two men or a man with two women. The big difference being, of course, that the sex is happening only between the new boyfriend and the former wife.

GRANTED that the boyfriend is not yet living with the couple and their son. He's just "dating" them all right now.

I believe such is possible, because there have been long-term relationships like this. Most notably William Moulton Marston the creator of Wonder Woman who lived with two women, one his wife, one his girlfriend. All three very happy together. Now *granted* again that he was having sex with both and it was a husband and sister-wves thing. But being that such *can* succeed, I'm not sure why this is doomed to failure.

That such may not typically work out, and may, percentage wise, usually fail, we can agree on. But that doesn't make failure a certainty in all instances. The sticking point here, I think, may be less about jealousy, etc. than legality. How is the boyfriend going to feel if he can't ever legally be her husband? Or, on the other side, how will the husband feel when/if she wants to legally be divorced so she can marry the boyfriend? And if the husband finds a girlfriend...well, that's one more person to complicate things.

Though, given that the husband has been married three times, he may do what you suggest LC, and just stick with girlfriend, not wanting another wife, happy with this situation. A wife who he's on good terms with regarding their son and home and all that, but who he doesn't have to satisfy sexually or emotionally.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Agree. Just get divorced already.

But ramifications are....you will never meet anyone who will be serious with you knowing you still live with your ex, First they may not believe it, second they will be jealous and never feel like you are going to be a true partner to them and they are right.

If you're okay spending the rest of your days(at least until kids are adults) getting one night stands and never having a real relationship, then fine.

The other thing is what does it do to the kids? Kids pick up on stress and tension and unhappiness. The people who "do it for the kids" are doing every one a disservice. themselves and the kids.

When its over its over.

People are getting lazier and weaker as time goes on.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Haven't seen the video yet 3, but from what you write I assume it formalizes what happens unspoken in many marriages.

I was about to say the same thing.

Yeah, it would take some handling, especially depending on the reasons for the split, but some people can manage that sort of stuff. My partner's ex didn't live with us but he spent a lot of time at our place, we've holidayed together and been to things like parent-teacher nights together, all pretty amicable.

I think it would've been a lot harder to navigate if she'd left him for me, but they'd sorted out their business before I showed up. The main problem for them sharing a house wouldn't have been relationship baggage, it would've been different standards of tidiness.

 

[jomar]

I suppose that is true but you're essentially trading one set of problems for another.

.

Yes and no. Depends...

 

[Hypoxia]

The human brain is the most complex object known (as of now). The number of possible neural connexions is somewhere in the gazillions -- a bit less than a googoolplex but still effectively infinite (beyond counting). The number of possible human thoughts, actions and reactions, attitudes, behaviours, is also virtually infinite. This is rather a problem for those who would regulate and/or regularize human interactions and thoughts. Whoever says "this is how people are" is almost certainly wrong. Whoever says "this is how people are sexually" is definitely wrong. We can assign probabilities, but certainty is elusive bullshit.

One of my fave old songs is Ferron's AIN'T LIFE A BROOK with her line "But life don't clickety-clack down a straight-line track / It comes together and it comes apart". Lives come apart. How once-partners can and do deal with that is infinitely complex. In the military, we joked about the ROAD (retirement on active duty) program, which is where one shows up for the job but does essentially nothing. Marriages and other social/sexual partnerships can follow a similar track: DWM (divorced while married). Or, the separation can go in any direction. We are infinitely complex. Deal with it.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

"How is the boyfriend going to feel if he can't ever legally be her husband?"

This I can answer based on my own experience. Legally, I'm only married to my husband. My (our) wife isn't married to either of us legally. However, we had a ceremony where the three of us pleaged our love for one another, same as any other wedding. We each wear two wedding bands, one on each hand. I will always refer to her as my wife because that is what she means to me.

My point being, what is really important here? The piece of paper that says you're legally bound to someone else? The idea you are joined together in the eyes of God? No, what IS important is how you feel within your heart and the hearts of your partner(s).

As I said before, I'm in no position to judge. We've heard time and time again that our marriage was doomed to fail and it has been 5 years now, which is the average length of any marriage these days.

If the adults involved in this type of a relationship can communicate to one another in such a way where everyone is happy while providing a safe healthy environment for the children, then I see no problem with it. However, I all hinges on the married couple getting along, but not getting along "too much". That is where the problems will probably arise, in my opinion.

I certainly don't think it can't be done. But realistically, it would take more work than the average person is willing to put forth. Anyone who can pull this off would have my support.

 

[sr71plt]

Just stop.

Why? Because you want to be the only one who can comment on this? Go fish.

I'm quite serious that neither you nor anyone else can be talking in absolutes on how marriages work or don't. There isn't a one size fits all in marriage relationships--including raising of the children. There isn't even a one of 450 sizes fits all.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Go ahead and live with your ex husband and try to bring a guy home or the other way around.

We are acqainted with a family that includes a husband, wife, and her ex-husband, all living in the same house. Plus two kids from the first marriage.

I don't know how they do it, but they do.

 

[3113]

My point being, what is really important here? The piece of paper that says you're legally bound to someone else? The idea you are joined together in the eyes of God? No, what IS important is how you feel within your heart and the hearts of your partner(s).

Yes, that's most important. But as legalizing gay marriage shows, that piece of paper can wield a lot of power. Decisions about finances, about inheritance, about who decides your medical treatment if you're badly injured and can't make such decisions.

I'm sure you'd be plenty upset if your husband was away and an emergency put you in the hospital, but your wife wasn't allowed access to you or to make such decisions. If such decisions suddenly fell, instead, to someone related to you who you didn't like or trust. And I don't know if your wife is living in your home or vice versa, but if she is living in your home, and something happens to you and your husband, she could be left homeless. Even if you've willed her the house, it might not stand up to a challenge from blood relations, whereas it would if she was a legal wife.

So. While I'd love to dismiss that piece of paper, I really can't so long as it carries so much weight in our society. Not in social status, but in issues that can make a huge difference.

 

[SamScribble]

Actually, I know several couples who have been down this track. In one case it turned into a total and unmitigated disaster. But, for the others, it worked out pretty well.

 

[Catchalot]

Why? Because you want to be the only one who can comment on this? Go fish.

I'm quite serious that neither you nor anyone else can be talking in absolutes on how marriages work or don't. There isn't a one size fits all in marriage relationships--including raising of the children. There isn't even a one of 450 sizes fits all.

God you're a fuckin whiner, and spare us all the snappy comebacks, they're never any good.

I agree with LC, the kids get hurt the most, and trust me, the trauma lasts for years.