Your Ebola Education Thread

[Ishmael]

You took the first political cheap shot, Spanky. Don't accuse the President of using a Magic 8 Ball and then get a case of the vapors when you get called out for it.

This whole mess has been exasperated by the government hatin' teabaggers refusing to allow as many appointments as possible, and underfunding the CDC at every opportunity.

Doctors Without Borders appreciates the army's help, but isn't impressed by their progress. But at least they recognize that's because the army administrators aren't used to this.
DWB does it all the time so they know how to do it quickly and effectively. The 101st's work in Africa should have been put under them from the get go. But...politics.

As I had predicted earlier in the thread, even non-political criticism would be spun into political activism on the part of the partisans. Some times criticism isn't political at all, it's just true.

It seems, if the following article has merit, that Obama himself is more than a little frustrated.

At the meeting on Wednesday, officials said, Mr. Obama placed much of the blame on the C.D.C., which provided shifting information about which threat category patients were in, and did not adequately train doctors and nurses at hospitals with Ebola cases on the proper protective procedures.

Frustration

Ishmael

 

[about_average]

As I had predicted earlier in the thread, even non-political criticism would be spun into political activism on the part of the partisans. Some times criticism isn't political at all, it's just true.

Are you suggesting people wouldn't have gotten their knickers in a twist if Obama had put the 101st in Africa under the direction of Doctors Without Borders?

edited for what I intended to quote

 

[Ishmael]

Are you suggesting people wouldn't have gotten their knickers in a twist if Obama had put the 101st in Africa under the direction of Doctors Without Borders?

No.

To answer your 'suggestion' more fully. There is NO way any military unit is going to be put under the direction of some civil organization, foreign or not. One might just as easily assert that DWB should be put under the military's command and control.

What the military brings to the table is logistics. Ordered, logical, and effective logistics. One of the many things that DWB has very little experience with. It would not surprise me in the least to find that some members of DWB present in the region ARE being consulted by the military so as to complete an intelligence overview upon which decisions regarding how those logistics should be applied are taken into consideration.

It will also not surprise me to see articles in the future based on quotes by various members of DWB criticizing the military's responses or non-responses to their needs. But those criticisms will be based on that one individuals particular needs and ideas, needs and ideas that are point focused without regard to an overall strategy and as such will, at least by me, be taken with a grain of salt until or unless some counter-productive pattern emerges.

While DWB is undoubtedly quite good at what they do, at least within the limits of their logistical support, it must also be understood that the military has spent over a century in dealing with and planning for, biological threats. Be those threats of a military origin (ie. militarized use and spread of agents such as Anthrax) or of a natural origin such as the flu or meningitis.

It should also be understood that the military brings with it one other ability that DWB doesn't have in their tool kit.......................the ability to enforce, with deadly force if required, policies conducive to overall betterment of the public health picture and enforced isolation of patients. A potent tool that DWB does NOT have.

Ishmael

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I said this earlier: 2 out of 50+ HCP says something. Standard Precautions and infection control are not be something that needs to be taught for every sick patient encountered, but SHOULD be monitored, refreshed and absolute.

Maybe Canadian MDs and nurses are better than American professionals, but what I experience are dolts who are ignorant of the basics and cant diagnose. Yet 30 years ago they did.

A friend of mine services hospital machines, and what he tells me is: hospital staff are too dum to notice when a machine is unplugged from the wall socket.

 

[Riles]

Maybe Canadian MDs and nurses are better than American professionals, but what I experience are dolts who are ignorant of the basics and cant diagnose. Yet 30 years ago they did.

A friend of mine services hospital machines, and what he tells me is: hospital staff are too dum to notice when a machine is unplugged from the wall socket.

I wouldn't presume to compare the quality of one against the other. My experience as both a patient and a health care provider is that the systems are lax. Period. They shouldn't be. But it's a tickle down effect, and people in general, by nature get lazy when they aren't held to a level of standards that demand effort.

A portion of the blame for this incident, which I hope it stays as, can be divided fairly easily amongst the parties involved. No one comes away smelling like a rose and hopefully it's the jolt needed to make effective changes.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The OP and Obama may profit from an awareness of crisis politics.

Competent, efficacious people are rarely in positions to make timely decisions and take effective action. Hacks almost always fill those jobs until crises are outta control and theyre swept away by political angst or a champion takes the reins away from them to save the day. Napoleon comes to mind as do Robert E.Lee and Ulysses Grant and Washington and Andrew Jackson.

 

[Ishmael]

I don't know if this blurb belongs here or not, but here goes;

The Carnival Magic cruise ship, owned by Carnival Cruise Lines, was expected to dock in Galveston, Texas, on Sunday, said Aly Bello-Cabreriza, a spokeswoman for the parent company Carnival Cruise Lines. Both Mexico and Belize refused to allow the ship to dock in their ports over Ebola concerns.

Article


First of all the quarantined individual was stupid for traveling to begin with. Secondly it seems that other nations can, and will, take prudent measures to protect themselves.

Ishmael

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Incompetence, ignorance, malfeasance, and a 'hooray for me fuck you' attitude always infects human endeavors. Only fools and liberals assume others will do the right thing, it aint gonna happen. And that's why something like ebola is so dangerous and expensive, and can crush the economy tho the death toll is relatively light. The disease demands 100% vigilance and resistance, and that aint happening.

 

[about_average]

To answer your 'suggestion' more fully. There is NO way any military unit is going to be put under the direction of some civil organization, foreign or not.

I'm well aware. That's what I meant. Political suicide

One might just as easily assert that DWB should be put under the military's command and control.

That would be really stupid. It would severely hinder DWB's ability to get things done.

What the military brings to the table is logistics. Ordered, logical, and effective logistics. One of the many things that DWB has very little experience with.

Sure. That's why DWB can move in to an area of an outbreak and get up and operating so fast and why the Army won't be operational until November. DWB has been dealing with various strains of Ebola for decades. The US Army never has.

 

[Ishmael]

I'm well aware. That's what I meant. Political suicide

That would be really stupid. It would severely hinder DWB's ability to get things done.

Sure. That's why DWB can move in to an area of an outbreak and get up and operating so fast and why the Army won't be operational until November. DWB has been dealing with various strains of Ebola for decades. The US Army never has.

It's not political, its sound command structure.

Of course it would be stupid, did I allude otherwise?

DWB has a decided advantage with regard to speed of response, at least for the time being. But never confuse the tactical with the strategic and the military is operating from the strategic point of view. The mere act of being able to rush from one fire to another is not necessarily going to put the fire out. Further, what the military is providing are isolated facilities for treatment, facilities that are woefully lacking as we speak.

Ishmael

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm well aware. That's what I meant. Political suicide

That would be really stupid. It would severely hinder DWB's ability to get things done.

Sure. That's why DWB can move in to an area of an outbreak and get up and operating so fast and why the Army won't be operational until November. DWB has been dealing with various strains of Ebola for decades. The US Army never has.

All the services have 'bases in boxes' scattered around the globe; the crates fill large warehouses and contain almost anything you can imagine for a small community plus parking lots filled with every mobile machine you'd need to build the community infrastructure. Electric power, refrigeration, water purification, sewage treatment, fuel storage and distribution, road building, etc. Even runway lights if the site has a bit of straight roadway at hand.

 

[about_average]

DWB has a decided advantage with regard to speed of response, at least for the time being. But never confuse the tactical with the strategic and the military is operating from the strategic point of view. The mere act of being able to rush from one fire to another is not necessarily going to put the fire out. Further, what the military is providing are isolated facilities for treatment, facilities that are woefully lacking as we speak.

More tactical attacks are needed, in addition to the strategic.
To use your example of fires, there's a reason many urban fire departments uses these.
http://www.piercemfg.com/PierceMfg/media/PierceMainMediaLibrary/Images/Trucks/By%20Purpose/Patrol/Patrol-Main.jpg?width=678&height=311&ext=.jpg?width=202&height=30

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

More tactical attacks are needed, in addition to the strategic.
To use your example of fires, there's a reason many urban fire departments uses these.
http://www.piercemfg.com/PierceMfg/media/PierceMainMediaLibrary/Images/Trucks/By%20Purpose/Patrol/Patrol-Main.jpg?width=678&height=311&ext=.jpg?width=202&height=30

Such vehicles spare pumper trucks for fires. Its simply a first responder unit with saws and other equipment paramedics need to open cars and demolished buildings and such with. They've been around forever.

 

[Ishmael]

More tactical attacks are needed, in addition to the strategic.
To use your example of fires, there's a reason many urban fire departments uses these.
http://www.piercemfg.com/PierceMfg/media/PierceMainMediaLibrary/Images/Trucks/By%20Purpose/Patrol/Patrol-Main.jpg?width=678&height=311&ext=.jpg?width=202&height=30

Did I say they weren't Did I at anytime imply that DWB wasn't providing a valuable service? Did I not even state that in all probability that the military IS listening do DWB and even coordinating efforts based on those consultations?

You seem to be trying to argue from an mutually exclusive either/or standpoint. I'm not, my position has always been "both."

Ishmael

 

[about_average]

Such vehicles spare pumper trucks for fires. Its simply a first responder unit with saws and other equipment paramedics need to open cars and demolished buildings and such with. They've been around forever.

Many departments have them because the first few minutes of a fire are critical to containment and the fire can be knocked down with less that the 3-400 gallons these trucks carry. They can get to a fire quicker (because they are more maneuverable) than full size pumpers and tankers.

 

[Mr.G]

YUP. Definitely. Absolutely.

Ebola is NOT airborne. O'Bola said so. No worries. Promise.

The head of the CDC said so. No worries. Promise.

A spokeman for CIDRAP said so. No worries. Promise.

Oh WAIT!!

AIRBORNE
***********
WHO admits sneezing could transmit Ebola
[link to www.wnd.com]

CDC ADMITS EBOLA COULD BE AIRBORNE
[link to theantimedia.org]

Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP)
[link to www.breitbart.com]

The scary part is the level of BULLSHIT they are shoveling at us. eg.

It is NOT airborne but it was the nurse's fault for catching EBOLA from Duncan (Dallas) because a small section of the back of her neck was exposed.

Say WHAUUUUUT??

 

[PoppingTom]

WHO admits sneezing could transmit Ebola

Off course it could. If the ebola guy sneeze into your mouth.

CDC ADMITS EBOLA COULD BE AIRBORNE
[link to theantimedia.org]

Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP)
[link to www.breitbart.com]

The scary part is the level of BULLSHIT they are shoveling at us. eg.

Yep. These links of yours are bullshit by default.

 

[RobDownSouth]

http://i.imgur.com/Osbrr1R.jpg

 

[cjh]

Good thing they included a disclaimer.

 

[Jennifer]

http://i.imgur.com/Osbrr1R.jpg

Purchased and wearing to work Friday night. Thanks, Bob