Meter

[Tzara]

Not a happy topic around here, usually.

Let me just start with an example, and a particular form. The double dactyl is an unusual form that depends upon the rhythm of the meter for much of its effect. (It's also usually intended to be humorous, at least a bit.)

The form is based on the dactyl, which is a metrical foot consisting of a stressed syllable followed by two unstressed syllables. The word hap · il · ly, for example (i.e, stress less less stress less less). The double dactyl requires both a double dactylic name (like Chris · to · pher Ish · er · wood), and a word for the second stanza that is naturally double-dactylic (like AN · thro · po · MOR · phi · c'ly).

Combined, these fit into a kind of silly, but rigid form:

Higgeldly Piggeldy,
David Ben Gurion,
guided young Israel's
founding as State,

was so accomplished, he
geopolitically,
formed a new country
without much debate.
​

 

[Trixareforkids]

I want to learn this stuff, but it might take a drill Sargent and boot camp to pound it into my head.

I'll have to re-read this more than a few times and play with one for a while. Still might not sink in, but I'll keep trying.

Thanks Tzara

 

[greenmountaineer]

I want to learn this stuff, but it might take a drill Sargent and boot camp to pound it into my head.

I'll have to re-read this more than a few times and play with one for a while. Still might not sink in, but I'll keep trying.

Thanks Tzara

Interesting recent sample in "New Poems:"

http://www.literotica.com/p/double-dactyl

 

[pelegrino]

Not a happy topic around here, usually.

Let me just start with an example, and a particular form. The double dactyl is an unusual form that depends upon the rhythm of the meter for much of its effect. (It's also usually intended to be humorous, at least a bit.)

The form is based on the dactyl, which is a metrical foot consisting of a stressed syllable followed by two unstressed syllables. The word hap · il · ly, for example (i.e, stress less less stress less less). The double dactyl requires both a double dactylic name (like Chris · to · pher Ish · er · wood), and a word for the second stanza that is naturally double-dactylic (like AN · thro · po · MOR · phi · c'ly).

Combined, these fit into a kind of silly, but rigid form:

Higgeldly Piggeldy,
David Ben Gurion,
guided young Israel's
founding as State,

was so accomplished, he
geopolitically,
formed a new country
without much debate.
​

British deciding:
gun-boat diplomacy,
and the Americans
just standing by,
who could be arguing
counter to such approach?
A Palestinian
less than a fly.

Apart from very silly it can also be very serious and heroic as a metre.
For your edification see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dactylic_hexameter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dactylic_metre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dactyl_(poetry)

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Ugh! You could have picked an easier start! Always disliked these things and only wrote them when forced! Anyway here's a couple I did ages ago!
.
Higgledy-piggledy
Lady Godiva, she
Tossed off her clothing, left
Nothing but hair.

Tittifillarously
Rode down the highway, she,
Poor Tom came peeping to
See her thighs bare.
................................
Dashingly-Swirlingly
Elephant Dumbo
Flew through the air
On monstrous big ears

Anthropomorphously
Captured the audience, he
Reduced his proud Momma
And me into tears.

 

[Neonurotic]

I can't write in meter to save my life. Annie's form threads were really pushing my poetry limit. I think it's almost time to do another 30 Po in 30 Days, since having a dry poetry spell.

 

[champagne1982]

Join me, Jami-san! Number 1 for an August 30 in 30 is up.

Jiggledy-Wiggledy
Sally the Bartender
Big titted, quick witted
drank hard on a bender

Intoxicatedly
In wardrobe disaster she
exposed a large breast
during slurred karaoke

 

[Tzara]

Interesting recent sample in "New Poems:"

http://www.literotica.com/p/double-dactyl

That's a very clever poem, but the meter isn't quite right, at least for me. "Scatologically" isn't double dactylic, which is really too bad, as it is the perfect word for the poem. Depending on how one pronounces the last two syllables (i.e., whether one pronouces -cally as one or two distinct syllables), the word as sounded has either five or six syllables. But I don't see any way you would pronounce it scat · o · log · i · cal · ly, which you would need to to make it doubly dactylic.

The preceding line I read as two amphibrachs (unstressed stressed unstressed), but that doesn't upset how the poem sounds as much.

You could substitute "anthropologically" " for "scatologically" assuming you pronounce the -cally as a single syllable, but it's a shame the original word doesn't quite work.

 

[greenmountaineer]

That's a very clever poem, but the meter isn't quite right, at least for me. "Scatologically" isn't double dactylic, which is really too bad, as it is the perfect word for the poem. Depending on how one pronounces the last two syllables (i.e., whether one pronouces -cally as one or two distinct syllables), the word as sounded has either five or six syllables. But I don't see any way you would pronounce it scat · o · log · i · cal · ly, which you would need to to make it doubly dactylic.

The preceding line I read as two amphibrachs (unstressed stressed unstressed), but that doesn't upset how the poem sounds as much.

You could substitute "anthropologically" " for "scatologically" assuming you pronounce the -cally as a single syllable, but it's a shame the original word doesn't quite work.

You're right. I missed the sonics, but the choice of "scat..." was very original and, I think, deserving of the rule to be broken.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

That's a very clever poem, but the meter isn't quite right, at least for me. "Scatologically" isn't double dactylic, which is really too bad, as it is the perfect word for the poem. Depending on how one pronounces the last two syllables (i.e., whether one pronouces -cally as one or two distinct syllables), the word as sounded has either five or six syllables. But I don't see any way you would pronounce it scat · o · log · i · cal · ly, which you would need to to make it doubly dactylic.

The preceding line I read as two amphibrachs (unstressed stressed unstressed), but that doesn't upset how the poem sounds as much.

You could substitute "anthropologically" " for "scatologically" assuming you pronounce the -cally as a single syllable, but it's a shame the original word doesn't quite work.

You're right. I missed the sonics, but the choice of "scat..." was very original and, I think, deserving of the rule to be broken.

I'm so glad it wasn't just me that didn't think it fitted!

 

[Tzara]

There are relatively few US presidents who have names that work in a double dactyl. Teddy Roosevelt is one:

Haunchily staunchily,
Theodore Roosevelt
charged with his cavalry
up San Juan Hill,

served as the president,
quasityrannically
dug through an isthmus and
made a canal.​

 

[UnderYourSpell]

There are relatively few US presidents who have names that work in a double dactyl. Teddy Roosevelt is one:

Haunchily staunchily,
Theodore Roosevelt
charged with his calalry
up San Juan Hill,

served as the president,
quasityrannically
dug through an isthmus and
made a canal.​

typo line 3?

 

[Tzara]

typo line 3?

No, not at all. Teddy was famous for his calalry--a kind of horseback cabal of students interested in the darker arts, who would go riding in search of Sites of Paranormal Activity and round up the spirits in a sort of corral, where the young men (the calalry was almost exclusively male) would taunt the spirits with Venerated Ivy League slurs until they slunk off to whatever afterworld awaited them or, at least, relocated to a Teddy-less haunting ground.




Of course it's a typo. Thanks.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

No, not at all. Teddy was famous for his calalry--a kind of horseback cabal of students interested in the darker arts, who would go riding in search of Sites of Paranormal Activity and round up the spirits in a sort of corral, where the young men (the calalry was almost exclusively male) would taunt the spirits with Venerated Ivy League slurs until they slunk off to whatever afterworld awaited them or, at least, relocated to a Teddy-less haunting ground.




Of course it's a typo. Thanks.

OMG and there was me believing you!! Bad boy!

 

[Tzara]

Here's a metrically interesting poem:

Star light, star bright,
First star I see tonight.
I wish I may, I wish I might
Have the wish I wish tonight.​

It's clearly metrical. What meter is it in?



Example taken from Dana Gioia's article, which answers the question.

 

[pensivepoet]

Um, not to nitpick
But teddy never went up san juan hill
He was on the hill next to it watching the action
Later, he tried to ride up it, but was told,
"get your dumbass back here! We've already taken that hill"
And it helped that the defenders were outnumbered 10-1
Oh! And the gatlin guns! Against single shot rifles
Funny how we turn massacres into heroics so mt rushmores can be carved.
Teddy was a decent soldier, just not on san juan hill.

 

[corndog_]

Here's a metrically interesting poem:

Star light, star bright,
First star I see tonight.
I wish I may, I wish I might
Have the wish I wish tonight.​

It's clearly metrical. What meter is it in?



Example taken from Dana Gioia's article, which answers the question.

The article was entertaining.
I was going to say elided iambic spondee.

 

[greenmountaineer]

Interesting article, Tzara. I plan to read it again. What struck me was this excerpt:

"Compared to most other languages, English is very strongly stressed. Speech stress in English conveys meaning. The more meaningful a word the stronger speech stress it receives. It was, therefore, almost inevitable that stress would provide the basis for most English meters—first in purely accentual form then in later accentual-syllabic developments."

What I think can lost here is the notion of variation or perhaps better put, contrast. Nursery rhymes are easy to memorize, but don't make good poetry for the most part or arguably at all. I don't think it's a matter of easy words, but also an easy sound as Gioia suggests if I read his article correctly.

I think this may be why poets are drawn to foreign languages, particularly the Romance languages. Spanish, for example, a language I used to speak quite a lot in an earlier career, is very soft as opposed to "stressed." Although there are hard consonants, eg, the "t" in "señorita," notice the three soft consonants in the same word.

There are a lot of Anglicized words in English borrowed from Romance languages, and I think they give that contrast I was referring to and a nice balance to a poem as a general rule.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

If I had to go by explanations I'd never right any forms, I 'hear' the rhythm in my head. If it doesn't sound right there it doesn't get written.

 

[Tzara]

The article was entertaining.
I was going to say elided iambic spondee.

That ignores the catalectic final foot.


Dumbass.