Cold War being revived?

[jacktar48]

Obama announces sanctions against Russia for actions in Ukraine.

Putin counters with plan to reopen Cuban "spy base."

Here we go again...anything to keep the military-industrial-congressional complex going. They play, we pay.

Moscow (AFP) - Russia has provisionally agreed to reopen a major Cold War listening post on Cuba that was used to spy on the United States, a Russian daily reported Wednesday after President Vladimir Putin visited the island last week.

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Kommersant reported that Russia and Cuba had agreed "in principle" to reopen the Lourdes base, mothballed since 2001, citing several sources within Russian authorities.

"The agreements were finalised while President Vladimir Putin visited Havana last Friday," the respected daily wrote.

Russia had closed the Lourdes spy base south of Havana on Putin's orders to save money and due to a rapprochement with the United States after the September 11 attacks.

But Moscow has since shown a new interest in Latin America and its Cold War ally Cuba and relations with the West have deteriorated amid the Ukraine crisis.

The base was set up in 1964 after the Cuban missile crisis to spy on the United States. Just 250 kilometres (155 miles) from the US coast, it was the Soviet Union's largest covert military outpost abroad with up to 3,000 staff.


"All I can say is -- finally!" one Russian source told Kommersant of the reported reopening.

The defence ministry and military high command declined to comment on the report to Kommersant.

Ahead of Putin's visit to Cuba last week as part of a Latin American tour, Russia agreed to write off 90 percent of Cuba's debt dating back to the Soviet era, totalling around $32 billion.

Russia paid Cuba rent of $200 million per year to use the base in the last few years it was open.

A former head of Russia's foreign intelligence service, Vyacheslav Trubnikov, told the newspaper the base would strengthen Russia's international position.

"Lourdes gave the Soviet Union eyes in the whole of the western hemisphere," he said. "For Russia, which is fighting for its lawful rights and place in the international community, it would be no less valuable than for the USSR."

Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov was not immediately available for comment on Wednesday.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Remember that week we were buddies with "The Soviet Union"? Yeah, neither do I.

 

[Liar]

Well, we need something to offset global warming...

 

[Dream59]

Yeah like Russia can afford to carry Castro like in the bad old days. They can barely afford a coastal navy.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The sad part is if you started telling me this was a deal between Putin and Obama to raise taxes so we can both get our economies up and going I'd probably buy it.

Unless it came from Breitbart.

 

[Dream59]

The sad part is if you started telling me this was a deal between Putin and Obama to raise taxes so we can both get our economies up and going I'd probably buy it.

Unless it came from Breitbart.

LOL I can't argue the point.

 

[nowisthetime]

Putin wants to relive the glory days of Russia's past.

 

[Dream59]

Putin wants to relive the glory days of Russia's past.

He has to have a lot more funds than he has now to accomplish that.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Putin wants to relive the glory days of Russia's past.

Well most countries like the glory days.

He has to have a lot more funds than he has now to accomplish that.

Nothing quite like the fear of Obama and NATO taking over the world and forcing you to eat hamburgers to justify raising taxes to pay things.

And nothing quite like us maybe needing to eat borscht to get the US together.

 

[jacktar48]

The sad part is if you started telling me this was a deal between Putin and Obama to raise taxes so we can both get our economies up and going I'd probably buy it.

Unless it came from Breitbart.

I doubt that there's an outright agreement -- more like a tacit agreement to disagree.

Remember how wonderfully profitable the Cold War was? And almost nobody got killed. I suspect both sides would like to get back to that.

The implicit threat will make it easy to spend gobs of money trying to stay ahead of the evil Russians who long to come here and force Communism on us.

Now we just need a few psychopath's like Gene McCarthy to help whip up public fears.

It was absolute BS the first time, but that didn't stop it from working, so why not try again?

 

[doctor_insanus]

The sad part is if you started telling me this was a deal between Putin and Obama to raise taxes so we can both get our economies up and going I'd probably buy it.

Unless it came from Breitbart.

Obama knows he can't raise taxes. We cut taxes even when we were invading Afghanistan and Iraq. Every bullet and bomb in the foreseeable future will be paid for by budget cuts to social programs and infrastructure.

The GOP will never help the economy rebound as long as there's a Democrat in the White House.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Obama knows he can't raise taxes. We cut taxes even when we were invading Afghanistan and Iraq. Every bullet and bomb in the foreseeable future will be paid for by budget cuts to social programs and infrastructure.

The GOP will never help the economy rebound as long as there's a Democrat in the White House.

He can if Russia starts work on some kind of new super ultra weapon or at least can make a good bluff for it. There's only so many social programs and infrastructure you can cut.

The last time the US and USSR came to this agreement the fight was a cover up. They were actually trying to build up weapons to fight Hitler's Alien Allies.

 

[renard_ruse]

Perhaps Russia will now actually do something to protect the people of the Donbas from the fascist/CIA orchestrated onslaught. If the so-called "west" is going to be a bunch of moronic pudwacks anyway, no sense to hold back. Lets get some air support over Donbas and protect these people.

 

[renard_ruse]

The GOP will never help the economy rebound as long as there's a Democrat in the White House.

A weak, minority party is responsible for the economic problems, not the party running the government.

Who do you mouthpiece tools think you're convincing?

 

[jacktar48]

He can if Russia starts work on some kind of new super ultra weapon or at least can make a good bluff for it. There's only so many social programs and infrastructure you can cut.

The last time the US and USSR came to this agreement the fight was a cover up. They were actually trying to build up weapons to fight Hitler's Alien Allies.

I'm sure someone in Washington can help the Russians invent some imaginary threat that we will have to spend billions preparing to defend against.

Back when we were supposedly so worried about them nuking us, it came out that their electronic technology was about 40 years behind ours. They were still using magnetic amplifiers in the automation on their submarines.

Someone in the Pentagon quickly pointed out that this was just an example of how diabolically clever the Russians were, and that we should do the same. (Regressing 40 years in technology.) Don't know if the Navy actually did that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Anything to spend more money.

 

[renard_ruse]

Regarding the first question, there is obviously no real ideological difference between the "west" and Russia/Eurasian Union countries, at least not one that is at a visible public level. There are a few minor differences, with a few slight differences on some minor social issues, but on economic issues the differences are minute.

During the real Cold War, at least on the surface, the differences were dramatic and all encompassing, between a system that was [sort of] free market capitalist and one that was a state owned and directed communist system. One system was [sort of] based on personal freedom and limited government while the other one was a totalitarian state in which the government claimed control over every aspect of life. One system was [sort of] a politically free democracy with free speech while the other was a one party state in which opposition was illegal. One system subtly pushed democracy and capitalism aound the world while the other openly stated its goal was a worldwide Communist revolution and encouraged violent overthrow of all non-Communist governments throughout the world.

Today, NONE of those differences apply. Anyone who tries to claim Russia is "Communist" or "still the USRR" is a liar or an idiot. There surface differences between the "west" and Russia/Eurasian Union are so minute to be almost silly, certainly no logical reason to have a war (cold or hot) over.

That means, the reasons for the "West" provoking these hostilities with Russia (and yes its the "west" which has been deliberately provoking Russia since the 1990s) is either one of abject stupidity or there is some hidden reason the ruling elites in the west don't like Russia and want to bring it under their control. I will leave that for another discussion.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its human nature to take the shortcut, and strife pays huge dividends on small investments.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

There is an axis building up between Russia-Iran-China and India to counter US influence.

From Victor Davis Hanson (NRO) this morning:

Germany in 2008 enthusiastically hosted candidate Barack Obama for his so-called Victory Column speech. Now, Germans suddenly sound as if they are near-enemies of the U.S. Chancellor Angela Merkel reportedly was furious that her cell phone was tapped by American intelligence agents. She just kicked the top CIA official out of Germany, further enraged that the U.S. had recruited at least one German official to provide intelligence on the German government. Polls show that Germans find Vladimir Putin’s Russian tyranny to be almost as popular as Barack Obama’s America.

Japan is becoming similarly frustrated with the U.S. It is rearming like crazy to confront an aggressive China. Both Asian powers apparently assume that Obama won’t guarantee the security of the Japanese as America has in the past.

The Middle East is dissolving. Taking U.S. peacekeepers out of Iraq proved a disaster. The radical jihadists of ISIS are overrunning Syria and Iraq, as they extend their destruction even to the mute stones of religious sanctuaries.

War looms between Israel and the Palestinians as they exchange rockets and bombs. Older Americans had an idea of what Afghanistan will look like by 2016 after Obama announced a pullout of all U.S. troops. They remember Saigon of 1975 all too well.

Crimea has become a Russian satellite. The fate of the Ukraine hangs in the balance. In between his conquests, Russia’s Putin openly ridicules the impotence of the U.S. He is often called to the Middle East on the perception that he can address problems that America runs away from.

From his sanctuary perch in Russia, National Security Agency turncoat Edward Snowden is once again releasing top-secret data that shreds the credibility of the Obama administration.

Foreign leaders don’t trust the U.S. They are baffled as to whether America is guilty of incompetence in hiring such a roguish dropout snoop in the first place, or guilty of cynically spying on America’s best friends — or both.

 

[jacktar48]

Its human nature to take the shortcut, and strife pays huge dividends on investments.

True. The Cold War was extremely profitable for certain people.

The private excuse was that all the wasteful defense spending was good for the economy.

But whose economy are we talking about here? Not mine. Nor most people who get taxed to pay the bill.

If the government has to piss money away in order to keep people working, there are far better ways to do it. They often claim that the defense budget is "not all that significant" and cutting it will not help the deficit.

They lie.

The United States spends far more than any other country on defense and security. Since 2001, the base defense budget has soared from $287 billion to $530 billion — and that's before accounting for the primary costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

With this money we could fix the highways and bridges for a start. This would create plenty of jobs across the spectrum, from unskilled labor to engineers and architects.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What about the jobs lost?



They tend to have more permanence and a lot of them are union.

 

[jacktar48]

There is an axis building up between Russia-Iran-China and India to counter US influence.

From Victor Davis Hanson (NRO) this morning:

US interference, exploitation and back-stabbing around the world has caused large numbers of people to hate us. Most people, it seems.

I've done a lot of traveling since 1970. About 20 years ago most people in my business quit admitting they were Americans when we got to foreign ports -- it would get you cheated, or worse. We started telling people we were Canadian.

No one hates Canadians...I wonder why?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

True. The Cold War was extremely profitable for certain people.

The private excuse was that all the wasteful defense spending was good for the economy.

But whose economy are we talking about here? Not mine. Nor most people who get taxed to pay the bill.

If the government has to piss money away in order to keep people working, there are far better ways to do it. They often claim that the defense budget is "not all that significant" and cutting it will not help the deficit.

They lie.

The United States spends far more than any other country on defense and security. Since 2001, the base defense budget has soared from $287 billion to $530 billion — and that's before accounting for the primary costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

With this money we could fix the highways and bridges for a start. This would create plenty of jobs across the spectrum, from unskilled labor to engineers and architects.

Government exists to create jobs for idiot children, keep soldiers loyal, reward friends, and silence enemies. Anything else is dum fucking luck.

 

[jacktar48]

What about the jobs lost?



They tend to have more permanence and a lot of them are union.

Unfortunately the change in plans would result in turmoil for people who actually work in defense-related industries. It sucks, but that's no excuse for just pissing money away on useless crap when it could be used for something productive.

The people involved would just have to move into something else. Some of the money saved could be used for retraining.

I think it could be done. But not over night.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

US interference, exploitation and back-stabbing around the world has caused large numbers of people to hate us. Most people, it seems.

I've done a lot of traveling since 1970. About 20 years ago most people in my business quit admitting they were Americans when we got to foreign ports -- it would get you cheated, or worse. We started telling people we were Canadian.

No one hates Canadians...I wonder why?

Oh, envy breeds hate.



I'm sure that out there are nations that are a tad bit grateful for our efforts to keep them free. Take Europe, for example, they don't always show it, but they know. However, you did not really address my point about gutting the military to create jobs.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Unfortunately the change in plans would result in turmoil for people who actually work in defense-related industries. It sucks, but that's no excuse for just pissing money away on useless crap when it could be used for something productive.

The people involved would just have to move into something else. Some of the money saved could be used for retraining.

I think it could be done. But not over night.

If we do that, then we trade engineering and manufacturing jobs for shovel and dirt jobs which will go to the lowest laborer bidders...



... those people who "hate" us, tend to like our technology when it comes to their weaponry...