Why are you submissive?

[All_4_Love]

If I may say, while SirW is one of my favorite people on this board, I am not sure he has so much experience with online dating

He sure has a lot of overall life experience and you can rely on that and his common sense, but for that particular issue I believe there are some ladies who have actually been in LDR (there was even a thread about it, something like LDR support thread around here?) and may be better suited to answer your questions.

Thank you, lady. I will look for it.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

If I may say, while SirW is one of my favorite people on this board, I am not sure he has so much experience with online dating

He sure has a lot of overall life experience and you can rely on that and his common sense, but for that particular issue I believe there are some ladies who have actually been in LDR (there was even a thread about it, something like LDR support thread around here?) and may be better suited to answer your questions.

You're absolutely right, SK - I've done relatively little online dating, though I've had a few online relationships, some of which turned out pretty well, and some of which ended up being closely related to apocalyptic disasters (e.g., the online masochist who couldn't stand pain unless she was the one causing it. Her first - and last - r/l spanking from me ended after three barehanded swats, and I wasn't sure she wasn't going to call the cops! But she adored beating her own ass with a ping pong paddle, to the point of welts and bruises!).

LDRs are pretty thoroughly covered in the LDR section of the Library (bottom of the linked post), and those discussions present a *number* of different view points.

BTW, YK and I first met online through a mutual acquaintance from Lit...

 

[Endless_Night]

Sir Winston,

I have a few questions about online interactions in the D/s world. I'm struggling at the moment with how to articulate them. If I am able to settle my mind at some point and put pen to paper, if you will, may I send you a PM?

If you do have questions about online interactions please post them. I'd be interested in seeing the replies.

The stuff in the LDR section is mostly about maintaining online D/s relationships. I'd be interested in having input on a good way to start them. Posting an add and getting slammed by cock pics holds little appeal.

 

[michael1966]

naturally submissive and raised that way

 

[All_4_Love]

LDRs are pretty thoroughly covered in the LDR section of the Library (bottom of the linked post), and those discussions present a *number* of different view points.

Thank you for the link, Sir Winston. I will do some reading up. If I’m not able to further consolidate my thoughts any better, I will send you a PM. Thank you again so very much.

If you do have questions about online interactions please post them. I'd be interested in seeing the replies.

The stuff in the LDR section is mostly about maintaining online D/s relationships. I'd be interested in having input on a good way to start them. Posting an add and getting slammed by cock pics holds little appeal.

Endless Night... I love that name.

I really would not be able to post what I am struggling with, as I am having a hard time articulating it. Aside from that, it feels quite personal. It goes deep into the psyche of the submissive mind.

When I saw that Sir Winston had posted on this thread, I took it as a sign for me to reach out. When you’re dealing with something that deep, as in how our minds work, who better to trust than the man with the experience that creates the wisdom?

Don’t you find it fascinating, by the way, that dominant men seem to always be one step ahead for the most part? That they understand the submissive female psyche? It’s pretty amazing. Actually, it’s more than amazing.

And, that's clearly another thread jack

lol... so funny

 

[CutieMouse]

Don’t you find it fascinating, by the way, that dominant men seem to always be one step ahead for the most part? That they understand the submissive female psyche? It’s pretty amazing. Actually, it’s more than amazing.

And, that's clearly another thread jack

lol... so funny

I would strongly suggest re-examining that view. Dominant people (in general) might be a bit more adept at picking up on things in general ( or at least appearing to), than your average guy, but always coming across as a step ahead? Blind. Luck. (Sometimes aided by wishful thinking on a submissive's part.)

Dominants aren't smarter than submissives. Or more astute. Or more aware. They don't "get" the female psyche any more than any other man (presuming you're talking about male dominants) does. They can't read minds, and sometimes they know far less than the submissive person they're involved with.

Sorry to be such a downer, it's just that I still remember a lot of very hard learned lessons from believing something similar, many years ago...

 

[All_4_Love]

Sorry to be such a downer, it's just that I still remember a lot of very hard learned lessons from believing something similar, many years ago...

That's not being a downer; that's being realistic and having experience. Thank you, Cutie Mouse. I've always been pretty damned naive.

 

[Joey_jenson123]

Why do we like asparagus versus broccoli, why do we like to travel versus stay home, why do we look at one person and feel something instantly and at another who is professed to be beautiful yet we feel nothing. I love reading the answers but the truth is we are incredibly complex. It took a lot of encounters, both positive and negative to make us who we are today.

The fun part is peeling off the layers and discovering more and more about your partner.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

....

The fun part is peeling off the layers and discovering more and more about yourself.

Sorry - my brain wanted to see inside the onion.

 

[StrayKat]

Don’t you find it fascinating, by the way, that dominant men seem to always be one step ahead for the most part? That they understand the submissive female psyche? It’s pretty amazing. Actually, it’s more than amazing.

Not me.
I find them mostly annoying, stupid, stiff and generally clueless about my psyche.

Except some exceptional ones most of which are on this very board

 

[All_4_Love]

Not me.
I find them mostly annoying, stupid, stiff and generally clueless

Hot button topics...such as when I carelessly threw out my feelings on women's rights.

You speak of men that aren't always complimentary.

I was married to a man for years that put his hands on me more than once, in ways that I never asked for, even while I was with child.

Even on my worst days, I have forgiven him, and I would never speak of him this way.

Just food for thought...

 

[CutieMouse]

[small hijack]

I think one of the harder things about dealing with dominant types, is that some can often come across as charming, persuasive, hyper-aware, etc. And it's very easy to assign those qualities to "dominant traits", thus giving dominant types an "edge" over non-dominant types. (I'd bet those are the dominant types All_4_Love has known.)

Then there is the other dominant type. The insistent, pushy, arrogant type, commonly referred to [here, at least] as HNGs (Horny Net Geeks) - much ridiculed and maligned. (I'd bet those are the dominant types StrayKat has known.)

In the end, people are people, and kink, BDSM, etc has nothing to do with personality, character or ethics. Personality, character and ethics stand alone, regardless of one's interest in power dynamics. (Thank god.) The trick (IMO) is to become astute enough at judging the personality, character and ethics of the person in front of you (to make wise decisions), without letting over-eagerness or excessive caution get in the way. [/small hijack]

As for the original question (why?)... no clue. I enjoy what I enjoy; I am who I am. I probably spent far more time than necessary trying to figure it out [initially], but one day realized that knowing "why" didn't change anything about the who or what, so I stopped asking myself "why".

 

[All_4_Love]

As for the original question (why?)... no clue. I enjoy what I enjoy; I am who I am. I probably spent far more time than necessary trying to figure it out [initially], but one day realized that knowing "why" didn't change anything about the who or what, so I stopped asking myself "why".

Indeed...

 

[StrayKat]

Hot button topics...such as when I carelessly threw out my feelings on women's rights.

You speak of men that aren't always complimentary.

I was married to a man for years that put his hands on me more than once, in ways that I never asked for, even while I was with child.

Even on my worst days, I have forgiven him, and I would never speak of him this way.

Just food for thought...

Well you are better person than I am then. If somebody made even an attempt to hurt my child I would never, ever forgive them. And I would say exactly what and who they are. Why spare the feelings of someone who doesnt deserve it?

I am sorry, but I do find most men who claim to be dominant pretty limited and stiff and totally unable to understand anything about me personally. All they do is project and think if they somehow manage to put me under their control everything will be fine. It wouldnt. And they dont have what it takes to control me anyway.

Mind you, you were talking about all dominant males like they are some kind of superhuman beings. In my eyes they are not. Some are great people (people, not supermen), most of them not so much.

Edited to add:
Very much true, CM, thanks for popping in

 

[All_4_Love]

Well you are better person than I am then. If somebody made even an attempt to hurt my child I would never, ever forgive them. And I would say exactly what and who they are. Why spare the feelings of someone who doesnt deserve it?

I am sorry, but I do find most men who claim to be dominant pretty limited and stiff and totally unable to understand anything about me personally. All they do is project and think if they somehow manage to put me under their control everything will be fine. It wouldnt. And they dont have what it takes to control me anyway.

Mind you, you were talking about all dominant males like they are some kind of superhuman beings. In my eyes they are not. Some are great people, most of them not so much.

I respect you, Kat. I hear what you're saying. Although, I'm not supportive of the "people don't deserve forgiveness route", I understand.

A slight correction, if I may...

I am naive, yes.
I am inexperienced, no doubt.
I am still young, only 39.

I wasn't talking about dominant men as if they are superhuman. Perhaps, I do have an exorbitant amount of admiration for most of them. Of course, I would. He holds the key to my heart, my being, my wholeness, if you will.

Cutie Mouse gave me a reality check. I needed that. I'm sure there are some pretty painful lessons ahead for me in the future.

You and I are just on opposite ends of the spectrum, Kat. I'm not here trying to make you feel like less. It breaks my heart to see you, "angry". I know that's a big accusation to make. It just seems like you're angry. I wish, for your sake, that you believed in forgiveness.

Giving you a *big hug*...

Please don't slap me

 

[StrayKat]

Not angry my dear, just blunt and straightforward.
Its the way I am.

You havent seen me angry yet and you probably dont want to

 

[All_4_Love]

You havent seen me angry yet and you probably dont want to

lol, I very much agree with this statement.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

Not angry my dear, just blunt and straightforward.
Its the way I am.

You havent seen me angry yet and you probably dont want to

I don't know... I always like to see examples that can help me add to my repertoire

 

[Endless_Night]

I don't know... I always like to see examples that can help me add to my repertoire

Agreed!

It might be kinda fun.

 

[Endless_Night]

On a more serious note, All_4_Love, I agree with StrayKat that part of the issue here is that you come across as though all dominant men are wonderful, god-like, omnipotent, beneficent creatures. There are plenty of dominant types that are misogynistic, bullying, selfish abusers. As both types populate the world of submissive women its a little creepy to see you deifying the species.

You mention naiveté in a way that makes it sound like a good thing. It’s not. Holding a positive outlook on life is great (and something of a gift), but closing your eyes to unpleasant realities, not so much. CM’s original point was to open your eyes and be safe. Even more important when you have a child.

Aside from safety issues, blind worship at the feet of an all inclusive “Dominant Men” also plays into worrisome submissive stereotypes. The vanilla world views “submissives" as women who are willing to put up with any abuse in the name of their submission. Not great PR for the lifestyle. Just saying.

I hope you find what you’re looking for.

 

[All_4_Love]

On a more serious note, All_4_Love, I agree with StrayKat that part of the issue here is that you come across as though all dominant men are wonderful, god-like, omnipotent, beneficent creatures. There are plenty of dominant types that are misogynistic, bullying, selfish abusers. As both types populate the world of submissive women its a little creepy to see you deifying the species.

You mention naiveté in a way that makes it sound like a good thing. It’s not. Holding a positive outlook on life is great (and something of a gift), but closing your eyes to unpleasant realities, not so much. CM’s original point was to open your eyes and be safe. Even more important when you have a child.

Aside from safety issues, blind worship at the feet of an all inclusive “Dominant Men” also plays into worrisome submissive stereotypes. The vanilla world views “submissives" as women who are willing to put up with any abuse in the name of their submission. Not great PR for the lifestyle. Just saying.

I hope you find what you’re looking for.

Thank you, Endless Night. I take heed to every single word you have posted here. A sincere thank you for your looking out for my wellbeing.

I understand that all dominant men are not wonderful. My case in point, I was married to one for years. I mistook him for trust. I mistook him for a confident leader. It was a heartbreaking experience. It opened my eyes. I’m learning every day, reflecting every day.

I know that naivety isn’t always a good thing. It has led me astray many times. I see the safety risks. I have already made mistakes at the beginning of my journey that scared the crap out of me and made me feel really dumb.

In my own defense, I hope that I’m not overconfident in not believing myself to be a victim of blind worship; however, I’ll consider your point of view further.

This thread stirred up a lot of emotions for me. I was speaking from my heart, but I do still have a mind, and I pray that when I encounter situations where it needs to be engaged, that I will do so.

 

[Netzach]

I don't think it's a gender issue - that women are naturally more submissive than men. But I do think some people - of both genders - are more comfortable in submissive relationships.

Thank you, this. I'd say *most people.*

The fact is, and I've said it before, that submissive PEOPLE are the vast majority in the world. Any casual observation of humans will scream this out.

But women are into the online overshare WAY more than men are. So all you see is one side of it.

 

[Netzach]

The only thing I don't get is where the hell everyone got this powerful memo that it's so great to be equal?

I mean I heard it on TV and shit, but one glance at my mother's behavior basically told me that my function was to do anything and everything and suffer all and have no dignity as much as possible when it came to men.

So this idea that it's the "be equal" messaging that's so terribly oppressive, I call bullshit.

What makes female submission fringe and edgy is not that the world is a feminist paradise, it's that it's still acknowledging female sexual agency at ALL. If you just *are* a sex object you're cool - the minute your start enjoying it, there's something wrong with you.

And yes there's more than "just sex" but there's always sex when people drop the pretenses.

 

[Netzach]

Over the years I have experienced that whenever I try to assert myself, I get really mean or I break down into embarrassing tears. I've struggled for years thinking that I should be able to learn how to be more graciously or elegantly assertive, but it wasn't until I began practicing submission as a way-of-life, embracing the idea that it wasn't "unhealthy" to be submissive, that I really started to learn how to operate graciously in the world.

A lot of conversations are happening about this issue outside of a sexual context lately - like the book "quiet" - a lot of questioning of the valuation of leadership and assertiveness to the detriment of other kinds of response. I think there are places to go outside of "Stereotypical alpha" and "slave" and I think that this essay confused as many people as it de-confused over the years.

Yeah, women are aware that mainstream Feminist with a big F pressures have dictated a lot, but I think it's important to be aware that that's not the only place you got the little voice in your head saying "what's wrong with me, why am I being such a doormat and why am I so wrong?" You got something *everybody* got, male female and other, alongside that version. And I defy any Dominant person with the sack to be honest about it to say that he or she hasn't struggled with those same moments, those same questions, those same ill-at-ease feelings when they have had to defer. And we ALL have to defer at some point, the end.

As an introvert and B-Type dominant person, and general "leave me the hell out of the power struggle" person, I find the whole question of alphas and omegas and betas fundamentally insane.

 

[smallgirl]

I am a sub because I have a hunger for obedience. I need to be lower than my Sir, and for him to assert his superiority over me. I need to be able to submit to him, and for him to use and abuse my body for his pleasure. I really enjoy a man who can push me past my limits, and free my mind from the thresholds I think I can't get past. I need my Sir to take me to other worlds.. to bring my mind to a place I can't even imagine. I love it when my Sir denies my freedom, and ignores my begging. I need to give myself completely to my Sir, body mind and soul. I NEED to feel useful and loved

I wouldn't have been able to answer that until lately.
For me? I found someone I truly understand and I think he understands me. I want to please him. When he says good girl I take pride in that he's happy with me. When I see him and the stress he's under is showing, I want to make sure I've taken some of that off of him when he leaves. I want him happy and enjoying life.
Making him feel good is my number one concern. Period.