Novelist's Empathy

[stickygirl]

I don't know if this question has been asked before, so forgive me if I'm out of step, but why do women in novels occasionally feel "a rush of tenderness toward [ their man ], seeing his failings and weakness in place of his overbearing nature; seeing the frightened little boy…"
I don't remember having read about a man expressing the same about a woman and that struck me as being odd. If my observation is broadly correct, what does that say about perceptions / preconceptions people have about such empathy between the sexes? Do men ever see 'the small girl' or are we to suppose that only novelists imagine it is women who are inclined to look for that?
I'm currently reading The Hours by Michael Cunningham and he seems to be full of dark forebodings, overbearing men and weepy women ready to top themselves at any moment. Fucking depressing actually - glad I haven't seen the film.

 

[DesEsseintes]

An interesting point: I wonder if it might be related to the old cliche about women wanting to 'look after' their men. Still, given that there must be at least as many men who have this paternalistic (sic) desire towards their partners, it is odd that it is not mentioned so often, or at least in the same way. It is at one with the different ways used to describe celebrity relationships, too: written about rather amusingly here in re George Clooney/Jennifer Aniston.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its not PC to see people as they are. We aspire to the superlative but are really feral. So its rude to recognize and act on the reality. Consequently no empathy is expressed.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

take a look at some martina cole.

 

[MrFoxwood]

Maybe I'm missing something but if a guy sees a woman he's about to sleep with as a fragile little girl it all gets creepy and borderline illegal very very quickly. Not saying there isn't room to explore the tender side of masculinity, it's just a thin line compared to the (stupid) expectation that all females are ultimately maternal.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Maybe I'm missing something but if a guy sees a woman he's about to sleep with as a fragile little girl it all gets creepy and borderline illegal very very quickly. Not saying there isn't room to explore the tender side of masculinity, it's just a thin line compared to the (stupid) expectation that all females are ultimately maternal.

Your view is rather new in the history of the world. Until 1926 orphaned girls had 3 outcomes: they lived with relatives, got married, or were placed at bordellos. Until 1970 teen girls were fair game. That is, society has always treated young people as small adults until lately. All females are ultimately maternal and wanna make babies. They don't all want to be parents but they all like being pregnant.

 

[DesEsseintes]

All females are ultimately maternal and wanna make babies. They don't all want to be parents but they all like being pregnant.

I'm sure this is too obvious, but have you heard of people called 'lesbians'?

 

[Weird Harold]

...Do men ever see 'the small girl' or are we to suppose that only novelists imagine it is women who are inclined to look for that?

Novelists (any author, really) tend to subscribe to stereotypes, and part of that is to distinguish soft femininity from male ego. I don't necessarily see that as realistic and some authors do subscribe to other stereotypes: That all men are natural protectors of women, -- Men who see "the small scared girl who needs protection inside the hard feminist exterior" -- for example.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm sure this is too obvious, but have you heard of people called 'lesbians'?

Translation: HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF 3 HEADED BABIES? HUH?

Sure. A museum in Holland has bottles filled with them.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Novelists (any author, really) tend to subscribe to stereotypes, and part of that is to distinguish soft femininity from male ego. I don't necessarily see that as realistic and some authors do subscribe to other stereotypes: That all men are natural protectors of women, -- Men who see "the small scared girl who needs protection inside the hard feminist exterior" -- for example.

Writers who stray from stereotypes are only read in college lit classes.

 

[stickygirl]

Oooer so apart from lesbians and three headed babies in literature, there is a consensus that authors stick to stereotypes. I guess that isn't too surprising for mainstream stuff.
I do find it easier to see the boy behind the man than the girl behind the woman, in RL.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I'm sure this is too obvious, but have you heard of people called 'lesbians'?

It's JBJ, you're wasting your pixels.

 

[DesEsseintes]

It's JBJ, you're wasting your pixels.

Dash it all! And I was running low, too.

 

[StrangeLife]

A man being more prone to action rather than emoting is not a stereotype. That's how most of us roll. When a man is acting in the way most women consider "sensitive" or even "romantic" it's a learned behavior. The so-called "soft man" does not exist naturally... he was wiped out by evolution many years ago.

"Maybe those sabre tooth tigers aren't so bad? Maybe they're just misunderstood? Come here... kitty, kitty, kitty.... what? WHAT?! AAAAAAAAAH!"



To a man nothing says "I love you" like fitting a new engine in your girlfriends car and getting a blowjob is preferable to a bouquet of flowers any day. I'm sorry to shatter your illusions but when a man says he understands you, he's saying what he believes works. So by writing in stereotype, you're actually being more realistic.

 

[DesEsseintes]

It is, of course, possible that people, with their large brains, have begun to notice that we are no longer living on the African savannah and adjusted their behaviour accordingly.

Or is that crazy talk?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It is, of course, possible that people, with their large brains, have begun to notice that we are no longer living on the African savannah and adjusted their behaviour accordingly.

Or is that crazy talk?

Youre optimistic but there's no evidence we've changed.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It's JBJ, you're wasting your pixels.

The poster is offering exception for the rule, shitwit.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Oooer so apart from lesbians and three headed babies in literature, there is a consensus that authors stick to stereotypes. I guess that isn't too surprising for mainstream stuff.
I do find it easier to see the boy behind the man than the girl behind the woman, in RL.

James Joyce impresses the hell outta chalky perfessers but no one really enjoys his crap.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

A man being more prone to action rather than emoting is not a stereotype. That's how most of us roll. When a man is acting in the way most women consider "sensitive" or even "romantic" it's a learned behavior. The so-called "soft man" does not exist naturally... he was wiped out by evolution many years ago.

"Maybe those sabre tooth tigers aren't so bad? Maybe they're just misunderstood? Come here... kitty, kitty, kitty.... what? WHAT?! AAAAAAAAAH!"



To a man nothing says "I love you" like fitting a new engine in your girlfriends car and getting a blowjob is preferable to a bouquet of flowers any day. I'm sorry to shatter your illusions but when a man says he understands you, he's saying what he believes works. So by writing in stereotype, you're actually being more realistic.

Women, however, who were mostly left tending to the condominium and watching soaps while the strong no-nonsense men slaughtered sabertooths and generally beat their chests as they conquered the world, were able to develop a superior emotional response because they simply had nothing better to do. Scientists have actually discovered that Lucy, the ancient specimen of great fame, actually survived primarily on bon-bons and Sister Wives re-reruns. They haven't found a male equivalent, but they suspect such a man would have likely sustained himself on a diet of pure awesomeness, WD-40, high in cholesterol, and low in empathy.

You can't argue with science, people.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Women, however, who were mostly left tending to the condominium and watching soaps while the strong no-nonsense men slaughtered sabertooths and generally beat their chests as they conquered the world, were able to develop a superior emotional response because they simply had nothing better to do. Scientists have actually discovered that Lucy, the ancient specimen of great fame, actually survived primarily on bon-bons and Sister Wives re-reruns. They haven't found a male equivalent, but they suspect such a man would have likely sustained himself on a diet of pure awesomeness, WD-40, high in cholesterol, and low in empathy.

You can't argue with science, people.

IRL alpha males protected their clans from human and animal predators. The males spent about half their time patrolling for enemies/predators, and half hunting. The beta males stayed home writing poems and songs celebrating the alphas. Betas have always been artsy-fartsy faggots.

 

[DesEsseintes]

That reminds me of my own long-gone and much-missed father, who thought that men only needed two things in life - WD-40 for their machines, and TCP for their bodies. With those two fluids one could conquer the world.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Lemme just say here, that I absolutely hate what evo-psyche has done to the world.

Take a simple hypothesis such as...

'Women are generally more sensitive to higher-pitched noises, we hypothesize that this is to hear a baby's cry'

That statement is okay. In fact, that statement is groovy, and makes an iota or two of sense.

But then, people run with it, and say.

'WIMMENZ STOP YARKING GO TO KITCHEN TAKE CARE OF BABEEZ DURR'

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That reminds me of my own long-gone and much-missed father, who thought that men only needed two things in life - WD-40 for their machines, and TCP for their bodies. With those two fluids one could conquer the world.

Duct tape, you forgot duct tape. You need the tape to tie the world up once you capture it.

I wrap my head with it before I read CRUELLA's posts. Saves lots time searching for pieces after my head explodes.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

IRL alpha males protected their clans from human and animal predators. The males spent about half their time patrolling for enemies/predators, and half hunting. The beta males stayed home writing poems and songs celebrating the alphas. Betas have always been artsy-fartsy faggots.

It's true; like wolves, we humans need our clearly defined roles. Like wolves, we respond only to strength, to a society based upon savagery and domination, where males, powerful hunters and great snap-jawed kings, rule over less worthy specimens, who, cowed by the very existence of such divine Fenris-like gods, live only to serve, to limp along, mouths agape, waiting for scraps. And the females, the strongest shall distinguish themselves from the pack, they, by virtue of their beauty and breeding prowess shall be granted places as subservient queens to the great wolf-god-kings--high above the others, lording over weaker bitches, but still beneath the rippling ferocity of her mate.

Yes, we truly are like wolves, beasts of lust and power, the lot of us.

Wait...so you're telling me they were totally wrong about the whole alpha wolf thing? It's really more just like a family, where everyone pitches in and the ones who seem in charge are actually the parents just acting like...parents? Wait, wait, the guy debunking this myth is actually the SAME guy that came up with it? Shit. Well, aren't a lot of our theories about alpha behavior kind of based on wolves and dogs and shit? Yeah, I mean, if we were way off on that stuff, God, what else could we be way off on? Hold on, I'm still an alpha, right? I mean, look at me, I'm badass. Do you know what my rank is in Call of Duty? I have like every achievement. I mean, how alpha is that?

I feel kind of weird, like, vulnerable, almost as if I'm not any different from any other man, that I'm not innately superior by some grand design. Oh, I don't like this. I don't like this at all. Kind of feels icky. What if I have to be judged on my personality or my accomplishments or something instead of my own natural intuition about my predestined place in human society? Oh God, oh God, here comes my asthma. Breathe. Breathe....

Never mind. I one-bombed someone and left a snarky comment. *exhales* No, I'm definitely an alpha. Whew! I was worried for a second. Thought maybe I was going to have to learn to speak to people with respect. But that shit's for pussies. I'm good now.

So, what were we talking about, fag?

 

[sr71plt]

The interesting thing about stereotypes is how often they are based in a truism.