Sex and BDSM...without the intercourse

[dazed_11]

Alrighty, here goes nothing. *takes a deep breath*

I've tried to vaguely ask for help on this subject before, but it didn't go so well because- well, I was too vague. As embarrassing as it is, however, this is me, I would like some discussion on the topic, and heck I don't know any of you so why do I care? I was hoping there would be something on this in the BDSM library, but no such thing. Oh well.

First, a little background to set the scene I'm a young female sub...or at least that's my personality, but I have had little chance to explore this, and I'll tell you why.

I can't have sex. Yep, that's right. It's the most painful thing I have ever experienced, and not in that good way. Now before you post commenting ALL the things I have heard from multiple doctors, such as "do you use enough lube" or "did you try another position" or "are you letting your painful sexual past as a child get in the way, perhaps it's all in your head," DON'T. I will probably cry if anyone says that crap to me again. It's a medical condition, and I have finally been to enough drs and physical therapists to know I am not alone. In fact, there are physical therapy places that specialize in helping with this! Broadly it is called dyspareunia, but this covers a wide arrange of problems...muscle issues, nerve issues, IC causing it...believe me, I've been diagnosed in every way possible, most of them wrong. I still am not positive what is causing this... Drs aren't exactly educated in this, I'm finding.

I am currently taking steps to find a fix, but I'm sure some of you (not all, as I've learned in rl, but perhaps the subs or other women?) will understand the frustration, the emotional hardships this has caused me. Worthlessness, anger, frustration, feeling alone, and the hate of sex in general (because it is the source of my life being ruined, my depressed state tells me) are things I go through every day.

I'm not posting this to find someone to tell me that "it's okay, everything will be fine, life will work out". I know this sucks, and I know the odds of finding a partner that can handle my problem is slim...I've accepted that, you know? I do not plan on putting a guy through that frustration again unless I get better. The guilt that consumes you when you don't know if your partner is truly happy...when you cannot give what every other woman in the world can...sigh.

But what I am posting for is a simple discussion. While mine is a problem that has affected me my whole life, this isn't always the case with dysp. Sometimes women experience it after having children or a surgery. So have you ever experienced this, or known someone who did? Statistics say that everyone knows at least THREE people with this issue....you just dont know it because they aren't open about it. I've met 4 in just a few years, and none of them are seeking treatment because they're married and dont really care, they are fed up after 1 dr told them they couldn't be fixed.

I refuse to accept that as an answer, but until then I would like to hear from others who might have heard of this. Or perhaps have some advice on how to deal with it, or...well, anything. One thing that has helped in the past is that I'm so into BDSM...and having this problem has made me even more into it. That's why I'm posting it here, because I figure this community knows how sex is more than just the intercourse, it's mental and can be a wonderful exchange of command and other activities. It gives me more options, if i were to actually be with a guy again. I guess....I guess I know I'm scarred from this mentally. But I am tired of feeling like a freak hiding from everyone. I'm hoping seeing discussion on this topic will help me hear some ideas, maybe stories of others, and not feel quite so alone. I feel like I'm looking through a window at everyone able to have "real" sex, and so angry... it feels like everyone here has a perfect sex life, but that cannot be the case. And if it is...well heck, then you should be the ones with ideas on what I can physically do to satisfy myself or a partner! Also if anyone can think of any stories on lit that I would love, instead of leaving it feeling like a totally worthless woman that could never do "that" by the end of the story, I'd appreciate it

So...discussion...ready, go!

(ps sorry this was so long, I hope I didn't put you to sleep! Surprisingly this is the short version of my story...it has been a long, hard road)

(pss I trust no one will be mean about this. Please think before you speak. I've had even friends say things that were very painful, and they didn't intend to. As casual as my post was up there, this is a difficult topic that has led to dark, difficult nights and more tears than I care to admit. Be polite

 

[CapnCuddly]

A vibrant and fulfilling BDSM relationship need not be sexual at all. And, like you said, those on this site realize that sex is so much more than coitus. A couple can have wild kinky BDSM sex in a thousand different ways without penetrating the vagina. Think of this condition as not a limiting factor, but as an excuse to be even more creative and kinky.

 

[dazed_11]

Well...I guess in a way it doesn't need to be, but it sort of does :/

What if I told you at age 20 you could never have sex. Sorry about your luck, but you can't. No idea why. (yes I waited until 20, I was picky lol)

You would feel very unsatisfied, right? Toys get boring, and not many men are okay with not ever having sex. EVER. It gets boring, unfulfilling. Picture that in a marriage...it makes getting close near impossible. Oh, and being told that obviously children are probably not in your future with the way things are going. Just a little bit to make things worse.

Not to argue, but I guess I just feel like there really aren't a thousand ways while not getting further into BDSM than I am okay with (I'm not touching blood play, choking, etc), and if there are then I'd love to hear them, because one of my issues is I don't know how to properly make the guy happy. Blowjobs and handjobs get boring after a couple years for both parties.

I'm sorry, maybe it is an excuse to be more creative, but it's more difficult than people make it sound. That's one thing about my friends, they say "well you can do other things". Gee, thanks, but you just don't know until it's taken away from you...being THAT creative, I'm finding, is difficult and discouraging. But hey, that's why I'm here, to get advice on that

 

[CapnCuddly]

Simple and obvious question. Can you take it up the butt ok?

 

[dazed_11]

Simple and obvious question. Can you take it up the butt ok?

I'm not sure yet...he wasn't very comfortable with it at first, so I've never tried. But I'm currently working on it so I think so. The feeling isn't quite as satisfying as I believe sex would be, but I can't say for sure till I've tried with someone, huh? But that is a good alternative, you're right.

 

[CutieMouse]

My first labor was pretty traumatizing for me; for a year or so after, sex felt like rape. I'd have flashbacks, anxiety attacks, etc. Fortunately (or unfortunately), my brain is wired to NOT refuse sex... so I dealt with it the unhealthy way - I just pushed through and put up with the emotions and pain until I got comfortable with sex again.

I obviously did get comfortable again, because I went on to have 4 more children. I eventually divorced him, and realized that some of the issues may have also been due to sexual incompatibility.

I think there was a poster in the How To forum who had a thread a while back about difficulty with sex; I found a link for you.

Having said that, I've said for years that there's a hell of a lot more to sex than sticking a cock in a cunt.

Anal might be an option (I'd strongly suggest reading Anal Pleasure & Health, for the relaxation exercises alone. A lot of the discomfort with anal can be due to tension and mental/ emotional blocks.)

Exploring alternative sex/ kinks might be an option, too. Maybe do a BDSM checklist and see if anything sparks an interest?

 

[dazed_11]

My first labor was pretty traumatizing for me; for a year or so after, sex felt like rape. I'd have flashbacks, anxiety attacks, etc. Fortunately (or unfortunately), my brain is wired to NOT refuse sex... so I dealt with it the unhealthy way - I just pushed through and put up with the emotions and pain until I got comfortable with sex again.

I obviously did get comfortable again, because I went on to have 4 more children. I eventually divorced him, and realized that some of the issues may have also been due to sexual incompatibility.

I think there was a poster in the How To forum who had a thread a while back about difficulty with sex; I found a link for you.

Having said that, I've said for years that there's a hell of a lot more to sex than sticking a cock in a cunt.

Anal might be an option (I'd strongly suggest reading Anal Pleasure & Health, for the relaxation exercises alone. A lot of the discomfort with anal can be due to tension and mental/ emotional blocks.)

Exploring alternative sex/ kinks might be an option, too. Maybe do a BDSM checklist and see if anything sparks an interest?

WOW, THANK YOU for this link! I totally get what you're saying about not saying no to sex, I didn't either and I think it made things harder mentally. I just felt so bad...

I get what the poster is saying in the first post of that link you gave me- not wanting it at all, and hating that. Dr told me it's because even if you "work though it", chemicals are being let off in your brain that associate pain with the activity...aka, in this case sex. It's a physical thing even if you mentally know maturating isn't going to cause the pain.

Anyway a checklist sounds interesting. That's the thing, I get it if I don't get through this because of the emotional/mental side of things, it's rough and will take lots of work, but I don't want to ruin a relationship just because I don't know "what to do" with a man ya know? That'd be a shame

 

[CutieMouse]

WOW, THANK YOU for this link! I totally get what you're saying about not saying no to sex, I didn't either and I think it made things harder mentally. I just felt so bad...

I get what the poster is saying in the first post of that link you gave me- not wanting it at all, and hating that. Dr told me it's because even if you "work though it", chemicals are being let off in your brain that associate pain with the activity...aka, in this case sex. It's a physical thing even if you mentally know maturating isn't going to cause the pain.

Anyway a checklist sounds interesting. That's the thing, I get it if I don't get through this because of the emotional/mental side of things, it's rough and will take lots of work, but I don't want to ruin a relationship just because I don't know "what to do" with a man ya know? That'd be a shame

There's always the possibility that your brain may figure out how to sexualize discomfort. For some people masochism can become an associative thing - take X discomfort, intersperse it with Y pleasure; the brain might tie the two together in a big ol' bow, turning discomfort into yummy yummy things. [raises hand]

 

[dazed_11]

There's always the possibility that your brain may figure out how to sexualize discomfort. For some people masochism can become an associative thing - take X discomfort, intersperse it with Y pleasure; the brain might tie the two together in a big ol' bow, turning discomfort into yummy yummy things. [raises hand]

haha I sure hope so. It all makes me WISH I were into pain more than I am, but as of right now I cringe when a hand goes between my legs because I know what's coming.

I WILL say, however, that last week a toy about the size of a finger and very soft was immensely pleasurable- I was like "I finally get why women like sex, it makes sense!" haha because I just had never felt that. It is a good sign my treatment is working, I certainly hope it keeps getting better. As I said, time will tell, but I'm not going to spend my life waiting for that.

Another problem is I was pointed into the direction of a certain dr who has some painful tests awaiting me, but the first visit wasn't pleasant and I'm terrified to go in there alone again...it's an irrational fear, but this is such a delicate situation I'm not going to push myself mentally, you know? It's my first male doctor. I'd rather wait...my mind is tired of drs, I'm taking a break. Maybe one day I'll be ready to go back to him and take his 6 meds and go through his tests...it's crap that I'd be embarrassed to have a girl with me ya know, but I hate going alone. Anyway, we'll see what happens I just need to chill, stop freaking out and rushing to fix myself.

 

[Endless_Night]

Vaginal intercourse doesn't define "real" sex. And, people like different things. I've known guys that weren't into blow jobs, and others who would happily get by on blow jobs alone! Anal, oral, and anything else that strikes your fancy - there are lots of options.

I realize this probably feels like the end of the world, but most people have some "issue" with sex. There's always a solution. Most of the time its our own head space that creates the majority of the problem. At least in relation to emotional distress.

I've always had strong non-consent and D/s fantasies that I was sure, in some perverted way, came from childhood abuse. Thinking I was emotionally damaged, I did my best to suppress them. After I stumbled onto BDSM I realized, not only was I not a freak, but that, as kinks go, I'm pretty darn vanilla!

Try not to put so much pressure, guilt and judgement on yourself. Just saying.

I've had two friend who suffered similar issues after their first childbearing experience. Both recovered. One took about a year, the second almost three. While I know little about the subject, but it seems possible your situation may change.

 

[dazed_11]

Vaginal intercourse doesn't define "real" sex. And, people like different things. I've known guys that weren't into blow jobs, and others who would happily get by on blow jobs alone! Anal, oral, and anything else that strikes your fancy - there are lots of options.

I realize this probably feels like the end of the world, but most people have some "issue" with sex. There's always a solution. Most of the time its our own head space that creates the majority of the problem. At least in relation to emotional distress.

I've always had strong non-consent and D/s fantasies that I was sure, in some perverted way, came from childhood abuse. Thinking I was emotionally damaged, I did my best to suppress them. After I stumbled onto BDSM I realized, not only was I not a freak, but that, as kinks go, I'm pretty darn vanilla!

Try not to put so much pressure, guilt and judgement on yourself. Just saying.
.

It does feel like the end of the world quite frequently, but I know you're right and I like how you worded all that Its hard, from media and well, basically growing up in public school and college, to imagine anybody could look past this. It certainly feels like a "deal breaker". But anyway, I'll try thanks

 

[CutieMouse]

haha I sure hope so. It all makes me WISH I were into pain more than I am, but as of right now I cringe when a hand goes between my legs because I know what's coming.

So your brain tells you that a hand between your legs is going to cause pain, which I bet makes you hold your breath and brace yourself (tense up), which only makes the pain worse.

Similar stuff happens in labor, which is why effective (drug free) labor techniques involving specific breathing exercises and relaxation techniques tend to work better than the typical TV sitcom Lamaze breathing stuff. (hehehe, whoooooo, hehehe, whoooooo)

It's also why I suggested that if anal is on the table, you read Anal Pleasure & Health. It's got an awesome section on relaxation and body awareness that might help.

If you KNOW touching you between your legs is going to create pain of the bad sort, it's the wrong place to explore pain. There's already a negative feedback loop there. If you want to learn how to explore discomfort/ sensation, just to see if you can start associating it with pleasure, try it somewhere new.

I WILL say, however, that last week a toy about the size of a finger and very soft was immensely pleasurable- I was like "I finally get why women like sex, it makes sense!" haha because I just had never felt that. It is a good sign my treatment is working, I certainly hope it keeps getting better. As I said, time will tell, but I'm not going to spend my life waiting for that.

That's fabulous!

Another problem is I was pointed into the direction of a certain dr who has some painful tests awaiting me, but the first visit wasn't pleasant and I'm terrified to go in there alone again...it's an irrational fear, but this is such a delicate situation I'm not going to push myself mentally, you know? It's my first male doctor. I'd rather wait...my mind is tired of drs, I'm taking a break. Maybe one day I'll be ready to go back to him and take his 6 meds and go through his tests...it's crap that I'd be embarrassed to have a girl with me ya know, but I hate going alone. Anyway, we'll see what happens I just need to chill, stop freaking out and rushing to fix myself.

Makes ya wish doctors had a little more personality, eh? I tend to trust midwives and nurse practitioners more than doctors, mostly because their bedside manners leave me less irritated.

 

[KoPilot]

Personally, I hate intercourse. It's uncomfortable, boring, and only feels good to me for about the first 15 seconds.

But I'm on the trans* spectrum, genderless/epicene/neutrois or something like that, and I get a little bit of bottom dysphoria here and there. Tbh I'm looking into the feasibility in having my vaginal canal closed after having my hysterectomy, because I'm so disinterested in having one.

I've talked it over pretty extensively with my husband, who's supportive of me. But that's not to say that he hasn't had some ugly knee-jerk reactions, which we've overcome by remembering that PIV is literally just one thing out of an endless combination of other things that aren't "worse" or "less than" it. BDSM isn't a currency that's backed by the penis-in-vagina standard. Such a notion is fucking ridiculous. Blowjobs and handjobs get boring? And vaginal intercourse doesn't? Use vibrators. Have him fuck you between the thighs or the tits. Try anal. The goal doesn't even have to be getting off either, you know?

Right now a typical romp in the bed for my hubs and I looks like this: I get him off, and he hits me until I'm off in la-la land. That's the bare bones of our sex life, and we're very happy with it.

Anyways, yes I'm on a crusade to get people to stop equating kink with vaginal intercourse. You'll do fine if you use a bit of your imagination and find a guy that's not a complete douche. :V

 

[Netzach]

Are you in a rel? I am gathering that you're het, also.

Because there are men whose relationships to intercourse are limited out there, men who also have to get creative or elect to get creative and for whom PIV sex isn't all there is. Maybe compatibility would bypass some of the pressures.

I've also dealt with sex (not just PIV) being at the mercy of general health stuff, it does get incredibly frustrating.

 

[dazed_11]

Are you in a rel? I am gathering that you're het, also.

Because there are men whose relationships to intercourse are limited out there, men who also have to get creative or elect to get creat whom PIV sex isn't all there is. Maybe compatibility would bypass some of the pressures.

I've also dealt with sex (not just PIV) being at the mercy of general health stuff, it does get incredibly frustrating.

Yes het, and no this sort of ruined things...we didnt know how to handle it, and i felt bad he was stuck with me. Or thats how i felt, I pushed him away. I've learned a lot and am way more relaxed about it all than i used to be. I beat myself up way more in the past. Helps that im on depression meds to not have those really bad nights where i overreact. Now i just want to learn how to proceed so i sont become the crazy lonely cat lady i mean if i do then fine, but i dont think that sounds very fun at my age haha I want to please someone, and get pleasure myself of course... but it would take a very unique person i believe to find pleasure in what i can offer. Im not being down on myself, im just saying its obviously a unique situation... once im ready to get out there again, finding that kind of person may prove to be difficult, to find someone to aa you said be compatible with. But hey we will see. Its so good to hear im not alone in this kind of experience tho... thats what i needed.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

... Its hard, from media and well, basically growing up in public school and college, to imagine anybody could look past this. It certainly feels like a "deal breaker" ...

Given the wider world of the wonderful web available to us now in finding partners and playmates, why don't you just post what you are looking for? As mentioned, you are not all that "out there" when held up in comparison with the rest of humanity.
And as you noted yourself, nobody knows you, so just ask for what you want!! Somewhere there's a guy wishing he could find a girl who DOESN'T want him to stick his cock in her pussy. I'm totally sure of it It will just take some casting about to find him. Whatever you do, don't hide in a corner for a decade and then think... Oh snap, what the heck was I stressing about?... We only get one life (that we remember ) so don't be afraid to try for what you want out of it

 

[BettyPoop]

Your guy isn't comfortable?!

There's a whole world out there. This guy isn't for you. With everything you have had to deal with that little baby is uncomfortable? There will be a lot of ups and downs in a relationship, and life doesn't get simpler. Maybe one person won't do it all? Don't try to put square pegs in round holes. You have work to do.

 

[MeekMe]

I'll put this out there, I have no idea what's actually going on and I can't offer any real advice or tips. I did happen to skim through and read the last few posts also. If anal turns out to be on the table, there are people who really, really like it. This came up awhile ago, it was really interesting because I had never known anyone like this. Check out this discussion

Again, nothing helpful, just saying the world is full of folks into different things.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay, now i feel bad that I've been offline all day.
You are hearing from a lot of people that Peen in Puss is NOT the only way to have sex, and i want to reiterate that.

PIV is NOT the definition of "having sex."

You can have sex without any penetration at all, like letting him thrust into your thighs which you hold clamped together-- it's a wonderful way to get clitoral stimulation, too, and offers a very strong sense of intimacy.

You can give him a blow job, he can lick your pussy. Explore all that playground around your labia, and the skin between your clit and your opening. You'll find locuses that give you very distinctly different sensations.

Butts are good-- I know how hard it is to get past the ick factor, but damn, butts are really good. There are nerve endings in your butt that your vagina never had a clue about...

 

[dazed_11]

There's a whole world out there. This guy isn't for you. With everything you have had to deal with that little baby is uncomfortable? There will be a lot of ups and downs in a relationship, and life doesn't get simpler. Maybe one person won't do it all? Don't try to put square pegs in round holes. You have work to do.

He wasn't comfortable with it for a number of reasons. 1, he was afraid to hurt me even more than he had. It came to the point where he would never even ask for anything because he felt guilty, was afraid to see that look on my face again. I need to give him more credit than I have been, it was more me that couldn't handle the situation than him, but it was difficult for us both. Anyway...

2, he's pretty vanilla. Anal isn't exactly something any of our friends talk about.

I'll put this out there, I have no idea what's actually going on and I can't offer any real advice or tips. I did happen to skim through and read the last few posts also. If anal turns out to be on the table, there are people who really, really like it. This came up awhile ago, it was really interesting because I had never known anyone like this. Check out this discussion

Again, nothing helpful, just saying the world is full of folks into different things.

hey, thanks! That's pretty interesting. This really has helped me see what others are into.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Yes het, and no this sort of ruined things...we didnt know how to handle it, and i felt bad he was stuck with me. Or thats how i felt, I pushed him away. I've learned a lot and am way more relaxed about it all than i used to be. I beat myself up way more in the past. Helps that im on depression meds to not have those really bad nights where i overreact. Now i just want to learn how to proceed so i sont become the crazy lonely cat lady i mean if i do then fine, but i dont think that sounds very fun at my age haha I want to please someone, and get pleasure myself of course... but it would take a very unique person i believe to find pleasure in what i can offer. Im not being down on myself, im just saying its obviously a unique situation... once im ready to get out there again, finding that kind of person may prove to be difficult, to find someone to aa you said be compatible with. But hey we will see. Its so good to hear im not alone in this kind of experience tho... thats what i needed.

I think it's very easy to push people away as you say, when you feel like you are unable to offer them everything you want to offer.
I know it's really difficult but try to let them decide what they want to be stuck with and not.

You are not alone.
I had problems with my first labor and it took us 6 months before we managed to have PIV sex like we used to and over a year I think until it really felt as good as it used to, for both of us. I've heard things like that from several other people and read several threads on the HT:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=26569964#post26569964
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=795652

Like Netzach said, other health problems can put you in a situation were sex or parts of your sexlife gets put on hold.
Even if I understand that it is extra frustrating to have to deal with this in the beginning of a relationship, I think this kind of issue does come up one way or another during a lifetime.
Thinking of that may make it easier to not want to push people away to save them the difficulty now.

 

[BettyPoop]

He wasn't comfortable with it for a number of reasons. 1, he was afraid to hurt me even more than he had. It came to the point where he would never even ask for anything because he felt guilty, was afraid to see that look on my face again. I need to give him more credit than I have been, it was more me that couldn't handle the situation than him, but it was difficult for us both. Anyway...

2, he's pretty vanilla. Anal isn't exactly something any of our friends talk about.



hey, thanks! That's pretty interesting. This really has helped me see what others are into.

You're worried that your friends don't talk about anal? Read that out loud to yourself. I've wasted my time here.

 

[Endless_Night]

You're worried that your friends don't talk about anal? Read that out loud to yourself. I've wasted my time here.

Jeez! She's 24. Her pool of experience is limited. Of course what her friends think and talk about matters. And that is okay.

 

[Aphro]

You're worried that your friends don't talk about anal? Read that out loud to yourself. I've wasted my time here.

Hmmm, a wee bit harsh, don't you think? You didn't even read all of her post.


OP, I'm sorry you are dealing with this. How incredibly frustrating.

May I ask, is this your first sexual relationship, or, have you experienced this with other partners as well? Can you have an orgasm, either by yourself, or with your partner, from clitoral stimulation?

I'm of the mind that, for now, put the penetrative sex (of all types, vaginal and anal) on an indefinite hold. If he's truly not comfortable with anal, no good can be had by offering your ass as "the next best hole" and hoping for a satisfactory experience.

Find ways for your partner to please you, and vice versa, with penetration totally off the table. That way, you won't go into a sexual encounter with that nagging fear at the back of your mind about intercourse and pain. I suspect a happy sexual life could definitely be had with just oral/oral.

The birth of my second son brought me a very generous episiotomy that tore right down into the "meat" of my inner buttocks. More stitches than Frankenstein, and a long, horrible recovery process. Even after I was "healed" it still hurt for more than a year and a half. It took a long time to get back any desire for sex! Scar tissue is not elastic in the way natural tissue is, so any pressure made me feel like I was tearing all over again. Of course, the difference for me was I had experienced pain free intercourse before. I knew it was possible, so we just had to take it slowly but surely.

Since you said you were able to insert a small toy, what about his finger? Can he get that inside you without pain? I know you said that a hand between your legs makes you cringe, but is that because a finger would hurt, or because that hand is the precursor of him wanting to have intercourse?

What if he were to just tease the opening with his finger while going down on you, but not actually inserting? I see you are 24...is your BF the same age? I know young guys can be a bit of a bull in the china shop when it comes to sex, I just hope he can learn to be very patient with you as you work through this. Sending you lots of positive vibes!

 

[dazed_11]

You're worried that your friends don't talk about? Read that out loud to yourself. I've wasted my time here.

What the heck, why are you being so abrasive and harsh? I just mean its very foreign subject in our world, we didn't know if it was really safe, would satisfy.... Im not here to talk about my relationship or my past, nobody here knows enough to make an educated comment. I made this thread to get ideas for the future and to feel more comfortable with possible options such as anal...not to be criticized for the culture we grew up in. We were 19 and 20, i dont think its weird for us to be hesitant, ive read a lot of people say they were slow to actually try the first time. I see nothing wrong with what i said.


Again, just here for ideas, others experiences, and helpful conversation all you've done is mock how we handled this situation. sorry we didnt automatically know to jump into anal without anyone suggesting it. :/