New Dom needs advice

[warmcupoftea]

Hi,

Two beautiful women have recently come into my life. They are both submissive. One is an expert, one is a novice. I've never had sex with either, but I will soon.

I've had many sexual encounters, and submission seems to come naturally for most women I've been with. But I've never defined roles with a woman before. I've never been a "Dom," it just happens.

They are both very sweet girls, and I want to build lasting relationships with them.

Can anyone give me a link to some crash courses on how to be a good Dom, one that my sub can fall in love with?

Here are some questions I have.

How soon do I tell them how to address me? Should I build a bf/gf relationship with them first? How long should that last? Should I have "normal" sex with them first? How do I avoid scaring them away? How do I avoid boring them by being concerned with scaring them away?

I'm sure I don't know what questions to ask exactly, so please, if you have any advice, I would love to hear it. Thank you.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Hi,

Two beautiful women have recently come into my life. They are both submissive. One is an expert, one is a novice. I've never had sex with either, but I will soon.

I've had many sexual encounters, and submission seems to come naturally for most women I've been with. But I've never defined roles with a woman before. I've never been a "Dom," it just happens.

They are both very sweet girls, and I want to build lasting relationships with them.

Can anyone give me a link to some crash courses on how to be a good Dom, one that my sub can fall in love with?

Here are some questions I have.

How soon do I tell them how to address me? Should I build a bf/gf relationship with them first? How long should that last? Should I have "normal" sex with them first? How do I avoid scaring them away? How do I avoid boring them by being concerned with scaring them away?

I'm sure I don't know what questions to ask exactly, so please, if you have any advice, I would love to hear it. Thank you.

Why do you need/want to do things differently and define roles this time?
Why not let it evolve like you have done before?

 

[Bert_Fegg]

You say one of these women is experienced - why not ask her?

 

[CutieMouse]

Hi,

I'm sure I don't know what questions to ask exactly, so please, if you have any advice, I would love to hear it. Thank you.

What makes you think some magical label makes this process any different than your previous relationships with women for whom "submission comes naturally"?

Do they know about each other?
What is the relationship goal? Poly V? Triad?
What do you think so so different between a bf/gf relationship, and a D/s relationship?
^ Why?
What does the "experienced" submissive expect this to look like?
What does the "inexperienced" submissive expect this to look like?
What do you expect this to look like?
Are all of you on the same page re" philosophy/ style of D/s? (You might be amazed at how many ideas of "the right way to do things" there are?)

How soon do I tell them how to address me?

Address you how? I've always called my [D] lovers by endearments - Dear, Sweetheart, Love, etc. When did that happen? As soon as it felt right.

Should I build a bf/gf relationship with them first?

Why does a bf/gf relationship have to be different from a D/s relationship? What do you think is so different about a bf/gf than D/s?

How long should that last?

What? Treating your partners like partners? Do you think that just because you have someone call you "Sir" or "Master" that all the normal relationship rules fly out the window?

Should I have "normal" sex with them first?

Define "normal sex"? What do the women want?

How do I avoid scaring them away?

Ask them? Then do the normal stuff you do to avoid scaring away someone who isn't kinky?

How do I avoid boring them by being concerned with scaring them away?

Ask them? Then do the normal stuff you do to avoid scaring away someone who isn't kinky?

 

[midwestyankee]

In other news, dog bites man.

 

[Stella_Omega]

"submission" is a very common word, and it's very much misused. In sex, women are receptive, because of the way their bodies are shaped. But that's not "submission," even though our society really, really expects it to be.

Read the link in my signature. It might give you another angle on things.

 

[_Stroke_]

"submission" is a very common word, and it's very much misused. In sex, women are receptive, because of the way their bodies are shaped. But that's not "submission," even though our society really, really expects it to be.

Read the link in my signature. It might give you another angle on things.

Attention: Thread hijack alert~~

Stella, I fucking love your posts.

~~The usual program will now resume.

 

[warmcupoftea]

Why do you need/want to do things differently and define roles this time?
Why not let it evolve like you have done before?

That's a tough, likely impossible question to answer. It's like asking why something is funny. We simply have a desire to explore this field together. Seeing some shrinks might give us a narrative, but it would likely be a false one.

 

[warmcupoftea]

You say one of these women is experienced - why not ask her?

Good advice, however she is teaching me things already. I'd like to get other viewpoints.

 

[warmcupoftea]

What makes you think some magical label makes this process any different than your previous relationships with women for whom "submission comes naturally"?

On a core psychological level, labels are what this is all about. The ego, as defined by some, is nothing more than a label that defines who we are. A useful abstraction that succinctly describes how we perceive ourselves, or how we think that others perceive us.

Do they know about each other?

Yes, but they haven't met.

What is the relationship goal? Poly V? Triad?

No set goal in this regard, yet.

What do you think so so different between a bf/gf relationship, and a D/s relationship? I don't think there is a huge difference.

There are trends and memes in your community that may be of value, or at least interesting. A bf/gf relationship conveys less information than a D/s relationship. A D/s relationship conveys that there is not only an intimate relationship, but also describes the dynamics of the relationship. If the two terms contain different levels of information, then they are not synonymous.

What does the "experienced" submissive expect this to look like?

She expects to teach me.

What does the "inexperienced" submissive expect this to look like?

She expects me to teach her.

What do you expect this to look like?

My expectations are weak, as I try to avoid expecting, as a general rule. That's impossible, however. My fantasy is to love and be loved by both girls, and for both of them to feel safe letting me see their inner essences. But a fantasy is different from an expectation. What I expect is that we'll have a great time for a couple of months, until we lose interest one by one.

Are all of you on the same page re" philosophy/ style of D/s? (You might be amazed at how many ideas of "the right way to do things" there are?)

Not explicitly, and I personally do not know enough about your lifestyle to be on a page. I do know that I have little interest in abusing them.

Address you how? I've always called my [D] lovers by endearments - Dear, Sweetheart, Love, etc. When did that happen? As soon as it felt right.

Good point. What I mean is that I don't want them to call me master unless they truly feel that way, but I think they may feel like it's the thing to do. I'm not asking for what's right and wrong here, but wondering about your opinions.

What? Treating your partners like partners? Do you think that just because you have someone call you "Sir" or "Master" that all the normal relationship rules fly out the window?

No, but it does introduce a different dynamic. If not, nobody would do it.

Define "normal sex"? What do the women want?

I find what women say they want and what they really want to differ. One may want something when fantasizing alone in bed, but when it becomes real, they retreat. I believe if I do what they want before they're ready for it to become real, they're likely to retreat.

So what I'm asking is, what signs should I look for to know that they are truly ready for what they want?

 

[warmcupoftea]

"submission" is a very common word, and it's very much misused. In sex, women are receptive, because of the way their bodies are shaped. But that's not "submission," even though our society really, really expects it to be.

Read the link in my signature. It might give you another angle on things.

I agree that the physical geometry of a woman promotes passivity, but not necessarily submission. I will read your link, thanks.

 

[Endless_Night]

It's hard to give definitive answers because there are lots of ways to "Dom". Finding out what your subs are hoping for is good advice. As is figuring out how you would like the dynamic to look. Not being clear on expectations is probably a good way to get into trouble.

There are several helpful books that deal with topping/domination. I can't remember if they're in Stella's sig or not, but they're definitely in the library.

Hmmm. People (and not only women) are not always comfortable talking freely about their sexual interests and desires. If you think this is a problem in your case, try alternative communication methods. Have them pick a story they like and read it.

Good luck!

 

[CutieMouse]

What makes you think some magical label makes this process any different than your previous relationships with women for whom "submission comes naturally"?

On a core psychological level, labels are what this is all about. The ego, as defined by some, is nothing more than a label that defines who we are. A useful abstraction that succinctly describes how we perceive ourselves, or how we think that others perceive us.

And see, I don't view labels to be useful beyond a vague starting point for further discussion. I once had a man tell me I wasn't submissive because I wasn't interested in his toy bag; I didn't understand how he could assess my ability to submit, when he hadn't even asked if I knew how to make a decent cup of coffee.

Neither of us were right or wrong, but the label "submissive" didn't really mean anything, because we were operating from different perspectives.

Do they know about each other?

Yes, but they haven't met.

Good.

What is the relationship goal? Poly V? Triad?

No set goal in this regard, yet.

Just something to think about. If one partner wants a "V" and another partner wants a triad, it can create challenges...

What do you think so so different between a bf/gf relationship, and a D/s relationship? I don't think there is a huge difference.

There are trends and memes in your community that may be of value, or at least interesting. A bf/gf relationship conveys less information than a D/s relationship. A D/s relationship conveys that there is not only an intimate relationship, but also describes the dynamics of the relationship. If the two terms contain different levels of information, then they are not synonymous.

To 99% of the world, my relationships look the same as any.OMG KINKY! A little more "traditional" than some, but nothing that would scream And I'd argue that a *healthy* bf/gf relationship often involves just as much communication and information as one based on D/s.

But then again, I'm the sort of person who looks at D/s relationships the same as marriage, motherhood, professional identity, etc. If married, I never stop being a wife; if a parent, I never stop being a mother; if a doctor/ lawyer/ accountant, I never stop being a doctor/ lawyer/ accountant.

My relationships are always based on power dynamics. That doesn't preclude them from also being bf/gf.

What does the "experienced" submissive expect this to look like?

She expects to teach me.

And do you both have the same idea of what that teaching will entail?

In the last decade, I've met people who's idea of "teaching about BDSM" involves slave positions and Gorean influences. I've met people who's idea of "teaching about BDSM" revolves around service. I've met people who's idea of "teaching about BDSM" focused on public events. I've met people who's philosophy of "teaching about BDSM" were all about rope (and little else).

What does the "inexperienced" submissive expect this to look like?

She expects me to teach her.

Similarly, what is she expecting to learn?

(Again - an opportunity to ensure everyone is on the same page.)

What do you expect this to look like?

My expectations are weak, as I try to avoid expecting, as a general rule. That's impossible, however. My fantasy is to love and be loved by both girls, and for both of them to feel safe letting me see their inner essences. But a fantasy is different from an expectation. What I expect is that we'll have a great time for a couple of months, until we lose interest one by one.

"Inner essence"... I have no idea what that means. But that doesn't matter, because I'm going to presume you (and they) know what it means.

I am curious though, why only expect a few months?

Are all of you on the same page re" philosophy/ style of D/s? (You might be amazed at how many ideas of "the right way to do things" there are?)

Not explicitly, and I personally do not know enough about your lifestyle to be on a page. I do know that I have little interest in abusing them.

I see this as an opportunity to discuss it. What is each woman's "idea" of D/s? Is it all about being kneeling and naked, ready to orgasm until they pass out? Domestic service? Orgasm control? All of the above?

I'm not saying you have to know everything, but a general idea of what they're expecting (so you know if it's something you're on board for) might be helpful.

Address you how? I've always called my [D] lovers by endearments - Dear, Sweetheart, Love, etc. When did that happen? As soon as it felt right.

Good point. What I mean is that I don't want them to call me master unless they truly feel that way, but I think they may feel like it's the thing to do. I'm not asking for what's right and wrong here, but wondering about your opinions.

If you're the one in control, you get to decide how they address you. Which means if you aren't interested in them calling you Master until they feel compelled to do so - explain that. If you don't like honorifics and prefer to be called something else, explain that.

What? Treating your partners like partners? Do you think that just because you have someone call you "Sir" or "Master" that all the normal relationship rules fly out the window?

No, but it does introduce a different dynamic. If not, nobody would do it.

In my world, it's not all that different.

I only engage in power dynamics within a relationship. I'm also picky about my relationships. However, once I'm in a relationship it's not that big of a deal -

I do what I'm told.
I accept his leadership.
If I have an issue with something, we discuss it.

Of course, there's also plenty of interesting sex, but I don't believe that's exclusive to D/s.

Define "normal sex"? What do the women want?

I find what women say they want and what they really want to differ. One may want something when fantasizing alone in bed, but when it becomes real, they retreat. I believe if I do what they want before they're ready for it to become real, they're likely to retreat.

I strongly, strongly suggest not engaging in D/s with people who can't own their own shit. And [to me] that means being adult enough to communicate their interests, desires, curiosities and fantasies, and honestly discuss it. What's on the "holy crap how soon can we do THAT" list? What's on the "fantasy only" list? What's on the "maybe" list?

If you haven't come across it yet, do a Google search for BDSM Checklists. They can be a good starting point to discuss the above.

So what I'm asking is, what signs should I look for to know that they are truly ready for what they want?

I have no idea. My lovers have always expected me to carry that weight, do the work to figure it out, and bring it to them when I'm ready. That doesn't guarantee that triggers won't occur, or that things might not be as great in reality as fantasy, or that XYZ activity will even work. But playing adult games means being an adult... it has jack to do with who is the dominant and who is the submissive.

 

[CutieMouse]

There are several helpful books that deal with topping/domination. I can't remember if they're in Stella's sig or not, but they're definitely in the library.

The New Topping Book
The Loving Dominant
SM 101


Oh, and something I forgot to address... the OP mentioned not having any interest in abusing his partners.

One of the reasons open, honest, blunt communication is so important, along with knowing how everyone involved "defines" BDSM, is to help avoid abuse. There are things some people might think is "abusive", that I see as incredibly intimate and loving.

 

[warmcupoftea]

Re: Labels

I agree about labels used in conversation. What I mean is labels with regard to the ego. I believe that affirmations and self talk are powerful. If one identifies as something, there is an inertia involved. If one calls himself a piece of shit in the mirror every day, then I don't think he will be a very confident person. If one identifies as submissive, then cognitive dissonance is less likely when being asked to perform a task.

This inertia is exemplified here by yourself: "If married, I never stop being a wife; if a parent, I never stop being a mother; if a doctor/ lawyer/ accountant, I never stop being a doctor/ lawyer/ accountant."

And do you both have the same idea of what that teaching will entail?

I'm sure that we do not. One thing I'm wondering is other's opinion on what to do if/when she says no. I have my own ideas, obviously, but am curious about other points of view.

I am curious though, why only expect a few months?

Because as time goes on in a relationship, we start to see each other's true selves that we hide instinctively. Often it's not the same person we originally were drawn to.

I strongly, strongly suggest not engaging in D/s with people who can't own their own shit. And [to me] that means being adult enough to communicate their interests, desires, curiosities and fantasies, and honestly discuss it. What's on the "holy crap how soon can we do THAT" list? What's on the "fantasy only" list? What's on the "maybe" list?

Do you like to have a talk up front about every act, or do you like to be surprised? Doesn't talking about it prior take off some of the sheen?

One of the reasons open, honest, blunt communication is so important, along with knowing how everyone involved "defines" BDSM, is to help avoid abuse. There are things some people might think is "abusive", that I see as incredibly intimate and loving.

I'm very curious about what these acts are. Would you mind sharing?

I appreciate your taking the time to talk with me. I will look into the books you've mentioned.

 

[CutieMouse]

And do you both have the same idea of what that teaching will entail?

I'm sure that we do not. One thing I'm wondering is other's opinion on what to do if/when she says no. I have my own ideas, obviously, but am curious about other points of view.

I would hope a basic understanding of communication would be established, before getting into a "no" situation.

I don't do drama, and I don't do anything that will cause long term harm. Which means guess what? Sometimes I say no. The interesting thing about when I say no, is that I only say it when I mean it. That means [for me] a little emotional or physical discomfort, or a situation I'm not exactly 100% on board for? Odds are good that I'll work through it instead of saying no, or I might say "not now" (to be revisited later).

I am curious though, why only expect a few months?

Because as time goes on in a relationship, we start to see each other's true selves that we hide instinctively. Often it's not the same person we originally were drawn to.

That's interesting... Honestly, I can't say I'd personally bother investing my submission in someone who only expected it to last a few months. Casual play partners, or a Top/bottom thing? Eh... maybe. Submit? No thanks.

I strongly, strongly suggest not engaging in D/s with people who can't own their own shit. And [to me] that means being adult enough to communicate their interests, desires, curiosities and fantasies, and honestly discuss it. What's on the "holy crap how soon can we do THAT" list? What's on the "fantasy only" list? What's on the "maybe" list?

Do you like to have a talk up front about every act, or do you like to be surprised? Doesn't talking about it prior take off some of the sheen?

I take time to get to know lovers, before they become lovers. I also don't do 0-100 in relationships; trust takes time. I think most recently, I got to know someone over several dinner dates. We talked about weird stuff we'd done with past partners, things that annoyed us, personal boundaries, stuff we'd always been curious about... I felt comfortable enough for X, but I prefer for Y and Z to develop organically.

Some things, yes, it's probably best to get explicit consent; some things, it may not be so necessary.

One of the reasons open, honest, blunt communication is so important, along with knowing how everyone involved "defines" BDSM, is to help avoid abuse. There are things some people might think is "abusive", that I see as incredibly intimate and loving.

I'm very curious about what these acts are. Would you mind sharing?

I don't discuss specifics of my proclivities with strangers, or with the public at large.

I appreciate your taking the time to talk with me. I will look into the books you've mentioned.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I've had many sexual encounters, and submission seems to come naturally for most women I've been with. But I've never defined roles with a woman before. I've never been a "Dom," it just happens.

They are both very sweet girls, and I want to build lasting relationships with them.

Can anyone give me a link to some crash courses on how to be a good Dom, one that my sub can fall in love with?

Here are some questions I have.

How soon do I tell them how to address me? Should I build a bf/gf relationship with them first? How long should that last? Should I have "normal" sex with them first? How do I avoid scaring them away? How do I avoid boring them by being concerned with scaring them away?

I'm sure I don't know what questions to ask exactly, so please, if you have any advice, I would love to hear it. Thank you.

That's a tough, likely impossible question to answer. It's like asking why something is funny. We simply have a desire to explore this field together. Seeing some shrinks might give us a narrative, but it would likely be a false one.

Oh, I didn't mean anything profound like that.
I was going with the bolded part of your first post in the thread.

What is it you want to differently this time?
Is it that you want more protocol and structure, more kinky sex or wanting a more lasting relationship?

The big job, when going into a relationship, is finding out what you want from it and what you are willing to offer in it. It's easier to lead when you know where you want to go and how you want to get there, so that might mean more things to ask yourself than you have in other relationships perhaps.

There is no readymade script that needs to be followed, for when to tell her to call you something specific and how to react when things don't work the way you want.
That is unless you really want a script to follow. Then you might want to look for different ways to do high protocol and choose something that you think will work for you or set out to create a protocol with your partners.