GOP On Suicide Watch

[Byron In Exile]

So, should we? A national ID card that you have to show whenever a cop asks to see it?

I already have a State ID card that I have to show whenever a cop asks to see it.

If you're trying to be scary, you're failing miserably.

 

[Byron In Exile]

As someone that has been stopped for "Driving while brown", it's totally unwarranted and an unnecessary use of law enforcement time.

What's unwarranted? The identification card?

 

[Byron In Exile]

I'm sure you're smart enough to know what I was talking about.

I'm smart enough to know you don't know what you're talking about.

Yup, cards with magnetic stripes that are trivial to forge.

What does that have to do with "papers"? You sound confused.

Of course, you're ignoring the major hit Social Security will take when you expel all the working illegal aliens.

Bullshit.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I already have a State ID card that I have to show whenever a cop asks to see it.

That wouldn't do; it is not keyed to a national database of who is a citizen and who is not.

Of course, if there were such a database, your file in it might conceivably contain every single thing government at any level knows about you -- scanned copies of your birth certificate, school records, arrest records, tax returns, voting registration, draft registration, American passport if applicable, foreign passport if applicable, naturalization papers or green card if applicable, lawsuits in which you have been plaintiff or defendant, the records of any interaction with government you ever have had -- all in one convenient click-accessible package. In the Information Age, it would not be at all difficult for an empowered agency to assemble some such thing.

I'm not saying I'm for that or agin' it, I'm just saying it is a possible and logical next step from any national ID system.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I already have a State ID card that I have to show whenever a cop asks to see it.

How many times per day or week or month are you asked by a cop to show it when you go outside your home?

 

[RobDownSouth]

How many times per day or week or month are you asked by a cop to show it when you go outside your home?

Damned near every time he visits the neighborhood playground in his trenchcoat.

 

[Byron In Exile]

How many times per day or week or month are you asked by a cop to show it when you go outside your home?

Every time I visit the neighborhood playground in my trenchcoat.

Otherwise, it's mainly cashiers and bank tellers that ask to see it.

Why do you ask?

 

[Byron In Exile]

That wouldn't do; it is not keyed to a national database of who is a citizen and who is not.

You have to produce your birth certificate to get an ID card or Driver License.

Of course, if there were such a database, your file in it might conceivably contain every single thing government at any level knows about you -- scanned copies of your birth certificate, school records, arrest records, tax returns, voting registration, draft registration, American passport if applicable, foreign passport if applicable, naturalization papers or green card if applicable, lawsuits in which you have been plaintiff or defendant, the records of any interaction with government you ever have had -- all in one convenient click-accessible package. In the Information Age, it would not be at all difficult for an empowered agency to assemble some such thing.

If you think this doesn't already exist, you're fooling yourself.

I'm not saying I'm for that or agin' it, I'm just saying it is a possible and logical next step from any national ID system.

Again, you're not being scary — that ship sailed long ago.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Every time I visit the neighborhood playground in my trenchcoat.

Otherwise, it's mainly cashiers and bank tellers that ask to see it.

Why do you ask?

Welp, it makes a biiiiiiig diff when it's a cop making you show it on a regular basis because you look illegally suspect versus you showing it on the odd occasion from needing to get into a nightclub or cashing a check or buying smokes n' booze at the drugstore because you might be an 18-year-old with a good makeup job, you thunk?

But if you never had to worry or even be made to feel the need to worry about the former situation much at all in your life, then it's not really a big deal, I s'pose.

 

[Noor]

I feel left out, no one ever asks me for mine when I wear my trench coat at the local school playground

 

[Byron In Exile]

Welp, it makes a biiiiiiig diff when it's a cop making you show it on a regular basis because you look illegally suspect versus you showing it on the odd occasion from needing to get into a nightclub or cashing a check or buying smokes n' booze at the drugstore because you might be an 18-year-old with a good makeup job, you thunk?

But if you never had to worry or even be made to feel the need to worry about the former situation much at all in your life, then it's not really a big deal, I s'pose.

It's happened to me before.

Cops asks for ID. I show him my ID. Cop checks database for outstanding warrants. No warrants, gives me back my ID card. The end.

You act as though that's some horrible ordeal on the order of being tackled, cuffed, and arrested. It's just not.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I feel left out, no one ever asks me for mine when I wear my trench coat at the local school playground

They can see you're not carrying ID
http://img0.etsystatic.com/016/2/6191330/il_340x270.430117246_s8mm.jpg

 

[IrezumiKiss]

It's happened to me before.

Cops asks for ID. I show him my ID. Cop checks database for outstanding warrants. No warrants, gives me back my ID card. The end.

You act as though that's some horrible ordeal on the order of being tackled, cuffed, and arrested. It's just not.

Yes, it's happened to you once, twice, maybe thrice in your adult life. If you were doing something to arouse suspicion, perhaps maybe?

I was wondering if the cops stopped and yanked you for your ID on a regular, systemic basis. Like, out of the casual blue. As if you were being stop and frisked and profiled. Does that happen with you?

 

[bronzeage]

It's happened to me before.

Cops asks for ID. I show him my ID. Cop checks database for outstanding warrants. No warrants, gives me back my ID card. The end.

You act as though that's some horrible ordeal on the order of being tackled, cuffed, and arrested. It's just not.

This is what we call the Caucasian experience.

Most of the time it works like that.

 

[KingOrfeo]

From Salon:

Thursday, Jan 30, 2014 07:45 AM EST

GOP’s devious immigration trick: Why Democrats have a looming dilemma

What would Democrats do if Republicans said yes to permanent legal status -- but no citizenship -- for immigrants?

Brian Beutler

After talking it over with John Boehner last night, Joe Biden says he’s pretty confident that House Republicans will be able to pass a consensus immigration reform bill.

According to Nancy Pelosi, she believes Republicans will adopt a reasonable position on immigration reform that most if not all Democrats will ultimately support.

In his State of the Union address, President Obama was much less critical of House Republicans for stalling immigration reform — “Republicans and Democrats in the Senate have acted, I know that members of both parties in the House want to do the same” — than for allowing emergency unemployment benefits to lapse — “this Congress needs to restore the unemployment insurance you just let expire for 1.6 million people” — or for attacking healthcare reform — “let’s not have another 40-something votes to repeal a law that’s already helping millions of Americans like Amanda. The first 40 were plenty.”

Suddenly immigration reform doesn’t look nearly as comatose as many observers, including myself, believed it was just a few weeks ago. So the question of the hour is, What will the price of resuscitating it be? And I’m not sure Democrats have thought through whether they’re ready to accept the price Republicans might settle on.

At the Washington Post, Greg Sargent has been unspooling the verbal contortions pro-reform Republicans must resort to when they discuss their reform principles and particularly the issue of 11 million undocumented immigrants.

It all turns on the term conservatives hate: “special pathway to citizenship.”

There is a way Republicans could embrace legalization that Dems could ultimately accept. Dems could insist that if Republicans don’t want a special pathway to citizenship for the 11 million, then the normal channels to citizenship for everyone must be unclogged. That means removing various currently existing barriers to green cards (which start the path to citizenship) for those who would be sponsored by employers or family members. Reformers believe you can get to citizenship for many of the 11 million this way.

Presumably Democrats would never agree to an immigration reform bill that immigrants themselves believe would make their lives more difficult — so the worst possible outcome here is probably that nothing happens at all. No bill.

But right now, the best possible outcome hinges on this bizarre metaphysics of guaranteed citizenship.

Nebulous wording and wiggle room is where a lot of politics happen, and its totally possible that this all comes down to framing a picayune technical dispute over how and when the 11 million end up becoming citizens as the difference between amnesty and not amnesty.

But it’s also possible that Republicans will make legalization precluding citizenship, or making citizenship effectively unattainable, their final offer. And I’m not sure Democrats and advocates have adequately grappled with the bind that would place them in. Obviously it would be a major negotiating failure for reformers to entertain an idea like this publicly. And it would be a genuinely unjust outcome in the sense that the 11 million would be treated secondarily to the rest of their fellow taxpayers under the law. And it would be a sub-optimal political outcome for the Democrats’ demographic politics.

For all these reasons, reformers have typically refused to go there.

Until very recently. When CBS News asked Biden about this issue on Wednesday morning, he cracked open the door. “We still think by far and away the preferable route to go is citizenship,” he said. “We don’t want two-tier people in America, those who are legal but not citizens and citizens.”

Which perhaps explains why AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka slammed it shut Wednesday afternoon, warning that unions would walk away if party leaders sanctioned a deal along those lines.

“Without citizenship, it’s a nonstarter because you can’t fix a broken immigration system and create a vast class of millions of people living in the community and working in our workplaces without citizenship. You can’t do that. They have no rights,” Trumka said.

That is the principled concern here. But in human terms, would actual immigrants (and their citizen children) prefer no bill at all to a bill that at least lets them work and live freely in the U.S. in perpetuity? Particularly if they could turn right around and begin organizing for a fight over the singular issue of guaranteed citizenship in 2016 and beyond?

I don’t think you can poll questions like that accurately. If you can, I haven’t seen it. But I have seen and known plenty of people living in fear of deportation, and many of them would welcome relief from that fear. Which means the question for Democrats would be whether the principle of equal treatment, and the cynical fruits of guaranteed citizenship, trump the actual wishes of the people they’re tying to help.

 

[eyer]

Geezus...

...it's like no one's ever heard of the REAL ID Act.

 

[about_average]

I'm smart enough to know you don't know what you're talking about.

Yet you aren't smart enough to understand the point of my post, which is quite evident from your subsequent responses to people.

I can see your reading comprehension is on the level of miles. I'll make it, hopefully, simple enough for you, though i thought my original post on the matter was pretty clear. But I understand how people spout asinine "solutions" with no thought to the actual details or consequences.

Vette said the military and police could could remove all illegal aliens from the US.

The only way to even come close to identifying someone as a US citizen or not, so they know whether to remove them from the country or not, would be to stop them and check their card (happy now?).

So that means, first, you have to have a national ID card, what was referred to in Nazi Germany as "papers", a word I chose to use intentionally because of the resemblance of the system to enforce checking everyone.

But a national ID card does no good on it's own to remove people, they have to be checked. So that means checkpoints along all travel routes. So that brings us to the second part.

Every time you go out you'd be stopped and checked, and checked multiple times along your route, to make sure you're a US citizen because there's no way the military and police will know if you've been checked before.
This would be the situation for the foreseeable future since there's no way to know an alien hasn't sneaked in. The border can't be 100% sealed without a wall around the entire US, and probably not even then.

Now tell us how that's not a big deal and you wouldn't mind?

By the way, we still use papers for identification. If you're a US citizen and enter the country (except from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda) it's called a passport.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Of course, if there were such a database, your file in it might conceivably contain every single thing government at any level knows about you -- scanned copies of your birth certificate, school records, arrest records, tax returns, voting registration, draft registration, American passport if applicable, foreign passport if applicable, naturalization papers or green card if applicable, lawsuits in which you have been plaintiff or defendant, the records of any interaction with government you ever have had -- all in one convenient click-accessible package. In the Information Age, it would not be at all difficult for an empowered agency to assemble some such thing.

I'm not saying I'm for that or agin' it, I'm just saying it is a possible and logical next step from any national ID system.

"if" LMFAO.....US gov has more information on you than you do.

Now tell us how that's not a big deal and you wouldn't mind?

They are all part of the Reich Wing....as long as it's not white Christians being persecuted, not the tiniest squirt of rat shit would be given by a single one of them.

 

[about_average]

They are all part of the Reich Wing....as long as it's not white Christians being persecuted, not the tiniest squirt of rat shit would be given by a single one of them.

Yeah, but vette said, or at least implied, all illegal aliens, since he didn't us any adjectives other than "illegal".
I'm confident there are white Christians here who are illegal aliens.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yeah, but vette said, or at least implied, all illegal aliens, since he didn't us any adjectives other than "illegal".
I'm confident there are white Christians here who are illegal aliens.

WOAH WOAH WOAH....those are civilized people we need to take care of, not like those godless savages from south of the border.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

If you think this doesn't already exist, you're fooling yourself.

If it already exists, why do we even need to register to vote? Your file data would show your eligibility or noneligibility to vote.

 

[KingOrfeo]

If they're illegal, who cares what color they are?

You do, and so does Sheriff Arpaio, and so do the Minutemen, and so do the Tea Partiers.

 

[unregistered]

 

[RjThoughts]

You're a lying son of a bitch. I've never said anything that supports that bullshit, and neither have they.

BULLSHIT!!

To them, if you're dark skinned, you HAVE to be an illegal. Fuck, I've been stopped in VA because I was "driving while brownish"

My niece's husband was born in East Texas, belongs to a family that's been there since the 1850s, and he was stopped in Phoenix last year.

It's all about the skin color to them.