The NSA and WOW

[VaticanAssassin]

Yep...your tax dollars at work.


American and British intelligence operations have been spying on gamers across the world, media outlets reported, saying that the world's most powerful espionage agencies sent undercover agents into virtual universes to monitor activity in online fantasy games such as "World of Warcraft."

Stories carried Monday by The New York Times, the Guardian, and ProPublica said U.S. and U.K. spies have spent years trawling online games for terrorists or informants. The stories, based on documents leaked by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, offer an unusual take on America's world-spanning surveillance campaign, suggesting that even the fantasy worlds popular with children, teens, and escapists of all ages aren't beyond the attention of the NSA and its British counterpart, GCHQ.

Virtual universes like "World of Warcraft" can be massively popular, drawing in millions of players who log months' worth of real-world time competing with other players for online glory, virtual treasure, and magical loot. At its height, "World of Warcraft" boasted some 12 million paying subscribers, more than the population of Greece. Other virtual worlds, like Linden Labs' "Second Life" or the various games hosted by Microsoft's Xbox _ home to the popular science fiction-themed shoot-em-up "Halo" _ host millions more.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Aside from I don't want them spying this much in the first place I don't see why they shouldn't be on those games. They fit all of the criteria for being a great place for terrorists to gather. It's online for communications, it's annonymous it has an actual economy that can be used effectively to pass money around and nobody bats an eye if you start talking in really complicated jargon. If Al Qaeda doesn't have a wing there they are slacking.

 

[chillywilly2]

Just because you're not paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not watching you

 

[Liar]

So if I read that right... as opposed to "wiretap" the in-game communications, they actually just played the game in order to infiltrate jihadist guilds and stuff?

"Sir, I need another two weeks of raiding to get my full Legendary set. Only then will they trust me enough to open up and reveal their plans to attack Ironforg--- I mean the embassy."

 

[Ishmael]

So if I read that right... as opposed to "wiretap" the in-game communications, they actually just played the game in order to infiltrate jihadist guilds and stuff?

"Sir, I need another two weeks of raiding to get my full Legendary set. Only then will they trust me enough to open up and reveal their plans to attack Ironforg--- I mean the embassy."

LMAO Excellent!!!!!!!

Ishmael

 

[rosco rathbone]

"Your tax dollars at work", eh?

If you were my head of digital surveillance and you weren't all over a gigantic online virtual world with millions of computer-savvy users all over the globe in constant communication across state borders, I'd fire your ass.

 

[neci]

^^^
no shit.

 

[MNGuy]

I wonder if any come to Lit.

 

[Sean Renaud]

"Your tax dollars at work", eh?

If you were my head of digital surveillance and you weren't all over a gigantic online virtual world with millions of computer-savvy users all over the globe in constant communication across state borders, I'd fire your ass.

With a damn near flawless money laundering system built in? Why would terrorists wander in there?

 

[neci]

they come all over lit.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I wonder if your GS level is tied to your game level.

 

[Ishmael]

"Your tax dollars at work", eh?

If you were my head of digital surveillance and you weren't all over a gigantic online virtual world with millions of computer-savvy users all over the globe in constant communication across state borders, I'd fire your ass.

Got any idea exactly how that's done? Or even 'not exactly', just kinda, sorta?

With a damn near flawless money laundering system built in? Why would terrorists wander in there?

Flawless 'money laundering' scheme???? How does that work?

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

Flawless 'money laundering' scheme???? How does that work?

Ishmael

Sorry, Money Laundering is the incorrect term since it wouldn't clean money effectively.

With an effective way to move assets around largely sans detection.

 

[Skiddles2014]

I heard that Al Quaeda has been saving it's xbox points and are up to no good.

 

[Ishmael]

Sorry, Money Laundering is the incorrect term since it wouldn't clean money effectively.

With an effective way to move assets around largely sans detection.

Actually that's not true. I understand the notion of buying gold, etc. with 'in game' transfers. But the fact is that there is real money moving offshore by either CC or PayPal, and we know that ALL of those transfers are tracked by NSA and others. Now, the dollar value of those transfers may be below detection thresholds, below the radar so to speak. The Chinese have turned that into an industry for making money, very capitalistic in nature. And there is nothing to stop some mid-east bad actors from doing the same, but to make any real money they'd have to have a point of contact outside the game (ie. *SusanExpress*) and that's where they get tripped up. So yeah, it can be done but it would be penny ante and there are better ways of moving big bucks under the radar. And quite frankly to make under the radar xfers for the sole purpose of moving money doesn't require the games at all.

If you want to move big bucks all that is required is to set up a pre-paid CC account with a big balance and then have some agent beyond reproach to deliver the card to the intended recipient.

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

Not just gold purchasing but characters are valuble "assets" though clearly you understand the concept. It seems especially for small players that would be an effective tool to use, in addition to what's already been said.

I'm not supportig this but I don't support most of this spying or getting groped at the airport or the rest of this shit.

 

[Ishmael]

Not just gold purchasing but characters are valuble "assets" though clearly you understand the concept. It seems especially for small players that would be an effective tool to use, in addition to what's already been said.

I'm not supportig this but I don't support most of this spying or getting groped at the airport or the rest of this shit.

All you, and Rosco, say CAN be done. I question the value of the resource to any jihadist group. Especially such online games like WOW.

The Xbox/PS#/Nintendo, etc. would be much more likely candidates for 'guild' type meetings.

The problem in either case is that of a 'Ronin' player getting an invite to the guild to begin with. How do you advertise that you are a terrorist wannabe without attracting unwanted attention? And as a guild how do you recruit 'the faithful' to your cause without attracting attention? As a matter of fact the article alluded to the problem with different agents and agencies trying to entrap each other. Funnier than shit when you think about it. Further there is no way you can verify the identity of the other party with any certainty. A situation that would cause a real terrorist to become apoplectic with paranoia. It would be effective in netting the terminally stupid, but the terminally stupid would be tripping themselves up in other ways too.

The real serious players have tried and true methods that don't subject themselves to the uncertainty of the internet, games or otherwise.

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

We'll skip gaming 101, you clearly don't actually understand that aspect but your grasp is sufficient that clarifying the majority of what seem like misconceptions would be a waste of time.

I agree that you'd have a difficult bordering on impossible task of getting invited to a terrorist guild. I suspect however if you knew enough there's got to be tells but World of Warcraft isn't a game I personally play much. The difficulty with ID though here is no more difficult than with any other internet communication. Impossible to be 100% sure but if you can't see the person you've got that problem.

 

[Ishmael]

We'll skip gaming 101, you clearly don't actually understand that aspect but your grasp is sufficient that clarifying the majority of what seem like misconceptions would be a waste of time.

I agree that you'd have a difficult bordering on impossible task of getting invited to a terrorist guild. I suspect however if you knew enough there's got to be tells but World of Warcraft isn't a game I personally play much. The difficulty with ID though here is no more difficult than with any other internet communication. Impossible to be 100% sure but if you can't see the person you've got that problem.

Good Lord, what a pompous individual you are. You have no idea what I do or have done yet you blat off as if you know everything.

First of all I don't have to know the details of any given game as long as I know the underlying architecture and code structure. WoW and other games of that genre all have open source client code. Easy to decompile and just as easy for a NSA to inject code into the client side to do damn near anything they want to do. The Console systems would be more difficult to inject code into, but not impossible.

Given that all that is required is to know specific IP's or even more valuable would be to extract the MAC.

All of the voice communication servers (Vent, Skype, etc.) are well known and easily compromised. As are all of the game servers. The technical methods of identification and compromise are much more efficient than having some hoards of GS whatevers sitting around playing games on the taxpayers dime.

The serious players are using far more sophisticated methods than games. And it seems that even when red flags are run up about domestic bit players like the Boston Brothers, our cherished FBI ignores the signals.

But if the government wants to pay people to play, maybe I should find out where to send in my application.

Ishmael

 

[dg]

What all of you are completely ignoring is the extreme effectiveness of this surveillance. Since the NSA began monitoring WoW how many Orcs have committed an act of terror? The answer is 0. How many Elves have bombed America? NONE! How many Draenai have beheaded a soldier? ZIP!

Way to go NSA. Keep us safe from the denizens of WoW.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Good Lord, what a pompous individual you are. You have no idea what I do or have done yet you blat off as if you know everything.

First of all I don't have to know the details of any given game as long as I know the underlying architecture and code structure. WoW and other games of that genre all have open source client code. Easy to decompile and just as easy for a NSA to inject code into the client side to do damn near anything they want to do. The Console systems would be more difficult to inject code into, but not impossible.

Given that all that is required is to know specific IP's or even more valuable would be to extract the MAC.

All of the voice communication servers (Vent, Skype, etc.) are well known and easily compromised. As are all of the game servers. The technical methods of identification and compromise are much more efficient than having some hoards of GS whatevers sitting around playing games on the taxpayers dime.

The serious players are using far more sophisticated methods than games. And it seems that even when red flags are run up about domestic bit players like the Boston Brothers, our cherished FBI ignores the signals.

But if the government wants to pay people to play, maybe I should find out where to send in my application.

Ishmael

He hides it better, but underneath he is just another Dan /Jen/fisted sister....

 

[Sean Renaud]

Good Lord, what a pompous individual you are. You have no idea what I do or have done yet you blat off as if you know everything.

First of all I don't have to know the details of any given game as long as I know the underlying architecture and code structure. WoW and other games of that genre all have open source client code. Easy to decompile and just as easy for a NSA to inject code into the client side to do damn near anything they want to do. The Console systems would be more difficult to inject code into, but not impossible.

Given that all that is required is to know specific IP's or even more valuable would be to extract the MAC.

All of the voice communication servers (Vent, Skype, etc.) are well known and easily compromised. As are all of the game servers. The technical methods of identification and compromise are much more efficient than having some hoards of GS whatevers sitting around playing games on the taxpayers dime.

The serious players are using far more sophisticated methods than games. And it seems that even when red flags are run up about domestic bit players like the Boston Brothers, our cherished FBI ignores the signals.

But if the government wants to pay people to play, maybe I should find out where to send in my application.

Ishmael

I know you're not a gamer just by listening to the ignorance you typed. But it was all acceptable ignorance which was why I didn't bother correcting you.

Drivel, drivel, drivel and I didn't disagree with most of what you said. You're just so quick to pick a fight because you're butt hurt that you just jumped out here. Perhaps you should go have a drink and a smoke.

You don't know what the Big Players are or aren't doing. Being easily compromised doesn't matter if nobody is looking for you there.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Wow... He doubles down on stupid.

First the stupid fuck tries to turn a non partisan thread in to politics then he thinks he knows more about WoW than you.

Remarked display of stupid.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

What all of you are completely ignoring is the extreme effectiveness of this surveillance. Since the NSA began monitoring WoW how many Orcs have committed an act of terror? The answer is 0. How many Elves have bombed America? NONE! How many Draenai have beheaded a soldier? ZIP!

Way to go NSA. Keep us safe from the denizens of WoW.

This is the type of response this thread warranted. Bravo.

 

[Skiddles2014]

Wow... He doubles down on stupid.

First the stupid fuck tries to turn a non partisan thread in to politics then he thinks he knows more about WoW than you.

Remarked display of stupid.

Well, he is old and drunk most of the time.