the depths we have sunk

[smokepole]

I am writing this as a professional. Nearing my 5 decade mark on this earth with slightly less ten that in my field.

I was around when black and white photography marked an understanding of your craft. The photographer who could manage and manipulate their tools and subjects to maximize the vision that the artist saw before them. Ansel Adams was one of the greatest of the lot. Although refraining from the human portraiture common of the times, he was able to capture the play of light. After all, isn't photography basically a record of light as reflected off a subject at a given time.

I digress.
In searching for subject material, I am bombarded by the forced aging of the young. The craft of light has become one of deviant accomplishments. (not that I'm not kinky - far from it) The art of the shadow has lost a place in our lives. We are prodded to accept women who use their bodies like sketch pads for the artistically deficient or a place to apply the stickers of their youth. I remember my younger sister's sticker collection (at least she didn't decide to advertise them on her body.) The day of body ink being an "art" is lost as well. Today you can see everything from gang graffiti to the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" scrawled across the female flesh. If that is what they wish, God bless them in their task, but most people I know do not find it attractive.

Where are we going? Is our youth lost in a world of corporate signage and cronyism? Will our art be subject to the stipulations of Barry's new views on the First Amendment? (see Friday's Executive Order and the "science czar's" directive to quash any and all voice in the contrary) Where does one find quality B&W or sepia nudes? Does anyone work in pencil anymore (I know they do - I do, but I'm throwing it out there)?

Just wonder if I've been alone too long... (obviously!)

MM

 

[THROBBS]

You must have been alone too long...you are starting to ramble.

I do not think "the art" or "the eye" is lost. Talented folk are all over, their work is oftened obscured by the mass of visual extrusions (good and bad) to which we are bombarded.

There are talented tattoo artists, and many many many more hacks.

Take a look at Toylk's photography (here on LIT), I think you will see his "eye".
or IMRapsody's photos.

Check out IrezumiKiss's thread of drawings (some are of tattoo'd women, so you might not care for those), his draughtsmanship is immaculate, and he is a "kid" (relatively speaking ).

or wet_special's thread of drawings.

Unfortunately, kinkikittyn took her posts down, she could really draw, though she is "old" like us. (but still hot)

 

[smokepole]

Impressed

No blowin smoke, but I swear I've seen your sig out there in the "real world". Your stuff is the real mccoy. I don't have the body of work you do, but I've taken the time (that would be the past 90 minutes) to take a snapshot of a couple sketchbook pages I have going

A little gets lost in the graphite and the incandescent lighting...
Well here they are

 

[THROBBS]

Thanks for sharing.

Yes, proper lighting and photography helps.
or a scanner... even the hundred dollar ones work pretty well.

 

[LadyVer]

I don't usually venture onto this forum because I am artistically void of talent in the visual arts. Just wanted to say that although tatts have become mainstream, sometimes I feel I am held hostage to viewing tatts on both women and men that for the most part I have no interest in seeing. The skin has been taken captive by art. The owner has disappeared under the ink.

 

[pfflyerhot]

What about charcoal? I want charcoal sketches, dammit!
The artistic eye is highly subjective... in many, and various, ways and means...
Wait. Where in the hell am I, now? ...

 

[THROBBS]

I don't usually venture onto this forum because I am artistically void of talent in the visual arts. Just wanted to say that although tatts have become mainstream, sometimes I feel I am held hostage to viewing tatts on both women and men that for the most part I have no interest in seeing. The skin has been taken captive by art. The owner has disappeared under the ink.

It is an interesting phenomenon. Yet another method of "self" expression, like the way we dress, but 90% ( making that up) of the time it is someone else's art, like the clothing, which, though selected by the wearer, it rarely created by that person. I have mixed feelings about tattoos. When well done, I can appreciate them, but I find the human body so fascinating, that I often find surface decoration a distraction. I suppose for some, that is the point.

What about charcoal? I want charcoal sketches, dammit!
The artistic eye is highly subjective... in many, and various, ways and means...
Wait. Where in the hell am I, now? ...

2B charcoal or not 2B charcoal... it's all graphite. Let's not be too dense.

funny... the denser the graphite, the more pale the mark.

 

[tolyk]

You must have been alone too long...you are starting to ramble.

I do not think "the art" or "the eye" is lost. Talented folk are all over, their work is oftened obscured by the mass of visual extrusions (good and bad) to which we are bombarded.

There are talented tattoo artists, and many many many more hacks.

Take a look at Toylk's photography (here on LIT), I think you will see his "eye".
or IMRapsody's photos.

Check out IrezumiKiss's thread of drawings (some are of tattoo'd women, so you might not care for those), his draughtsmanship is immaculate, and he is a "kid" (relatively speaking ).

or wet_special's thread of drawings.

Unfortunately, kinkikittyn took her posts down, she could really draw, though she is "old" like us. (but still hot)

Thanks for the shout out Throbbs

 

[smokepole]

sorry

I'm not ignoring responding, I'm just in a bad way right now.

Tried last night and passed out on my keyboard.
Tolyk, you are one I wanted to PM, only because your pics remind me of home. You'll never know how much I miss home.
PF, they're coming, you'll have to get me an address.
LadyV, you don't know how much I agree. It's a total turn-off for me.

Sorry if this all seems rushed, I only have a few minutes.

 

[FlyAwayFromHere]

hope you feel better soon. I myself am going to attempt B&W nudes that look good... but i have no subject with which to shoot with. maybe one day i will get there.

Good luck with your difficulties.

 

[smokepole]

too far

hope you feel better soon. I myself am going to attempt B&W nudes that look good... but i have no subject with which to shoot with. maybe one day i will get there.

Good luck with your difficulties.

Damn you're across the pond! I woulda let you shoot me, I know I could use a shot.
Friday, what's on my mind

THROBB: that charcoal 2B or not is DAMN fine writing! Kudos! (whatever the fuck that really means I don't know).

 

[THROBBS]

...

THROBB: that charcoal 2B or not is DAMN fine writing! Kudos! (whatever the fuck that really means I don't know).

I think it's a candy bar.

I'll take candy bars.

 

[desertslave]

I disagree with the OP on several points. Mind you, I've passed my 5th decade by a few years, so I've had the opportunity to see just as much.

I know, for a happy fact, that simple B&W photography is alive and well. My son just fell in love with my camera (from college) in his own college photo course. He is learning to see on a whole new level, and I'm enjoying the hell out of looking over his shoulder. His dozen or so classmates are equally in love, so there is definitely hope for the future. Good photo stores are harder to find, but they ARE out there.

I think the newest waves of inks have set the tattooists' art free. So much of the new work is incredibly vivid and more detailed. I think the general failing is that of the purchaser, not the artists. They're limited by what's requested of them.

Sketching is also alive and well, as is the research and reverence for works of the past. I'm barely a journeyman, myself, but I'm helping to teach the next wave of "scribes" in our medieval group. We work with things like ground pigments, egg tempera, and gilding. Seriously old-school. The interest is still there, in groups all over the world.

Respectfully, I believe you need to get out and see what's happening.

 

[smokepole]

My son just fell in love with my camera (from college) in his own college photo course. He is learning to see on a whole new level, and I'm enjoying the hell out of looking over his shoulder

Can you say what school? I can't even find film for my camera. (I think there may be a roll still loaded). It is good to know there are people out there training in the classical sense (learning by doing things the old ways to see how advancements got made).

I know with architorture, they seem to push the cyber, I know first hand it was impossible to find a draftsman that knew the business end of a hammer let alone what a metal stud looked like. They kept the students out of the field and submerged in the programming like everyone would go to work for "Autodesk" instead of a practice. The schools used the mandated "internship" as a reason to cut corners in "methods and materials". They looked to the practitioners to give the interns the education. That was the bull of it all. You hire a kid to come in for the summer to produce, not learn on your dime.

There may be good stuff, and there always will be as long as we have a free market, but I don't have the opportunity YOU have with kids, so I'd say great, count yourself lucky. I have been swayed from a good portion of my original argument by the members on this site, but still maintain that as a society, we are slaves to this box the way the seventies we were slaves to the TV.

I agree it is great to see the enlightenment of the youth as they realize____. (whatever it is you are trying to get across). When chasing light, it can be pretty special.

 

[smokepole]

as a BTW

The examples that have been mentioned in the course of this thread are really great, but I think we are getting away from the overall direction I meant for it. I'm talking in generality of society, not individual examples. We will always be able to point out one or two here or there. That is a given There are 300million people in this country and fortunately they haven't cloned us identical (not that they aren't trying). I speak as a society more than individuals.

I know a few professional photographers who lost their practices to the advent of digital. Their bread and butter went "by the way" for industrial and product pics.

My point I guess is I don't have a lot of hope for us as professional artists.

The tattoo comment is purely my affectation - I don't like them. I know you'll tell me I'm wrong. I'm not. It's just my opinion. I couldn't have any for identification reasons. I'm not crazy about them on my partners. It doesn't work for me. EOS

 

[oggbashan]

I have a collection of Russian cameras from the 1960s and 70s, mainly Zenith SLRs.

Most of them do not use any electrical facilities except some of the later ones which have a basic through the lens metering facility. If the batteries are flat or missing, you can still use the camera with a light meter, or by eye.

These basic cameras are much in demand by local schools that teach photography courses. They have no automatic features. The aperture, the speed and the focus have to be set by hand. The lenses M42 Pentax Screw, are easily changed and other accessories such as extension tubes are easily and cheaply available.

Because they are so basic and take 35mm film, the students have to think before firing the shutter. In an age when most of them will have been using digital cameras from taking their first pictures, the discipline of doing everything themselves helps them to understand photography. They also have to develop and print/enlarge using a dark room and chemicals.

So far I have given nearly 50 cameras to schools in my area, together with dozens of lenses. I could keep acquiring and giving Zenith cameras, but the supply of lenses is drying up. An M42 lens can be used with a cheap, easily found adaptor, on modern Digital SLRs. If you can buy a 300mm M42 lens for ten pounds, fit an eight pound adaptor to it, and mimic the shots that a two hundred and fifty pound digital lens can do, why pay £250?

Black and white film photography is alive and well locally. I'm pleased that I have managed to help to keep it going.

 

[smokepole]

Excellent!

Good work! Proud to meet you.

The old Pentax (I think it was the 1000 model) was what I learned on. I miss that old shutterhouse.

Again, not my point, but very happy to hear that some are learning to appreciate light.

 

[THROBBS]

I'm not sure that we (society in general) has really "sunk" any further (as far as visual arts go. That *is* what you mean, right?)

I think there is a change of perception tho'.

More and more people have access to create visual media, by various methods, AND distribute it. In Ansel Adams' day, cameras and film and chemicals were more rare/expensive...and has Ogg noted, "...(one had) to think before firing the shutter"

Now, we have digital cameras available to everyone...with tricks, gimmicks apps and automation. But, I contend that the digital cameras are now superior to the film ones (though I enjoy the nostalgia of the old). It is the masses of folk BEHIND the lenses that tend to (currently) be less thoughtful, or knowledgeable. I think that will change, and is changing, as people grow beyond the novelty and begin to recognize a better framed image, an image which indeed does capture the light. We will always have chaff in with the wheat.

I believe that with the tools we have now, put into the hands of thoughtful, trained and interested artists...even better works will be made. I have seen much slick crap made with digital tools, but in the hands of those with an "eye" and a "hand" for it...Great STufF!

 

[smokepole]

I'm not sure that we (society in general) has really "sunk" any further (as far as visual arts go. That *is* what you mean, right?)

More and more people have access to create visual media, by various methods, AND distribute it. In Ansel Adams' day, cameras and film and chemicals were more rare/expensive...and has Ogg noted, "...(one had) to think before firing the shutter"

Now, we have digital cameras available to everyone...with tricks, gimmicks apps and automation. But, I contend that the digital cameras are now superior to the film ones (though I enjoy the nostalgia of the old). It is the masses of folk BEHIND the lenses that tend to (currently) be less thoughtful, or knowledgeable. I think that will change, and is changing, as people grow beyond the novelty and begin to recognize a better framed image, an image which indeed does capture the light. We will always have chaff in with the wheat.

I believe that with the tools we have now, put into the hands of thoughtful, trained and interested artists...even better works will be made. I have seen much slick crap made with digital tools, but in the hands of those with an "eye" and a "hand" for it...Great STufF!

I really like your responses. I have to thank you for providing the thoughtful expression that my posts lack.
You hit the nail on the head. The point of access and cost was one I hadn't honestly considered. I know it was the reason the friends i mentioned had lost their studios - cost and availability. Why hire and schedule someone when the receptionist can put the gear under and MR16 (light fixture) and shoot a few shots with her phone. An hour later, you have your brochure ala "Paint" or "Corel (I don't even know what they use these days).

This closes out my attention to this post. Thanks all for have responded. It has been educational. I appreciate all the direction to others on this site. This site is very large and the resources available here can be overwhelming if you actually try to follow one of those threads that has gone on for more than 4 pages.

Again, Thanks

 

[oggbashan]

Since the first Kodak - "You take the picture: We do the rest" - there has always been a difference between those who were practising photography as an Art form, and those who wanted snapshots as a record of their family, their holidays and significant events.

The Kodak users recognised this. They would still visit their local professional photographer for formal studio portraits to complement the holiday snaps.

Despite modern digital picture technology being so easily and cheaply available, there are two professional photography studios in my town; all the local schools have professional photographers visiting to take school portraits of a class and each child; and the local photographic society has a waiting list.

The society has a section of dedicated black and white purists and even a small sub-set who won't touch a digital camera, but some of their best b&w work is now taken on digital SLRs and manipulated with Photoshop, instead of a plate camera and enlarger. The techniques are different. The artistic eye is the same.

 

[THROBBS]

....

The techniques are different. The artistic eye is the same.

What Ogg said.

 

[desertslave]

Can you say what school? I can't even find film for my camera. (I think there may be a roll still loaded). It is good to know there are people out there training in the classical sense (learning by doing things the old ways to see how advancements got made).

He's in the Maricopa County Community College system. One of the few things I'm very proud of as an Arizonan is the varied and pretty damned good CC system.

For tracking down odd film, have you checked Central Camera in Chicago? My daughter took me there when we were installing her at college in August. It's a 'died and gone to heaven' kind of store that really deserves to be seen in person, but they have a very useful website, as well. They even had film for my aunt's beloved Zeiss Ikonta!