What Do You Recommend?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

'How to write' books are awful.

So what fiction/non-fiction do you recommend to newbies, to learn from?

 

[SamScribble]

I agree that ‘How to’ books are (generally) awful. But, boy, do they sell! I guess that there are always people looking for the no-work short cut to success.

I think an exception to the rule is William Zinsser’s ‘On Writing Well’.

Other than that … I’ll have to give it some thought and get back to you, JBJ.

Saul Bellow, EL Doctorow, and Philip Roth have all been useful. And JP Donleavy’s The Ginger Man had an influence way back when. I also find myself re-reading Graham Swift, Kurt Vonnegut Jr, and Robert Drewe on a regular basis. Elmore Leonard is probably not going to writing any more stories but, in my book, he is still one of the best examples of how to write it tight. And I still find that Tom Wolfe makes me smile.

More to follow.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Elmore Leonard was a successful author 20 years before he read George V. Higgins first book, Leonard said the newbie, Higgins, taught him how to write. Higgins was the best noir writer I know of, yet he's not considered a noir writer. Both are master writers.

Chester Himes Harlem Period books are all masterworks. I cant imagine Oprah or Toni Morrison or Obama reading them, tho.

David Goodis is a cross tween Himes and Raymond Chandler. Almost sublime writing.

John LeCarre's George Smiley novels are sublime writing.

Pete Dexter's book God's Pocket is a masterwork.

Raymond Chandler wrote sublime stuff.

 

[lovecraft68]

I recommend writing, writing, writing....

You cannot learn to write from a book. You can learn grammar and some editing tips, but not writing.

Writing is a gift, talent, skill take your pick, but not everyone can do it.

Not everyone can paint, sing, play a certain sport, or a musical instrument and no how to book will teach you those things.

I have a friend who went out and bought a book on how to play darts. For the rules its fine.

But if you do not have the natural aim or hand eye coordination you are not hitting a bulls eye roughly the size of a dime from just shy of eight feet away with a dart, the book will not give you that.

You can write, or you cannot. use the "how to money" on something more useful. Like a pizza.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I recommend writing, writing, writing....

You cannot learn to write from a book. You can learn grammar and some editing tips, but not writing.

Writing is a gift, talent, skill take your pick, but not everyone can do it.

Not everyone can paint, sing, play a certain sport, or a musical instrument and no how to book will teach you those things.

I have a friend who went out and bought a book on how to play darts. For the rules its fine.

But if you do not have the natural aim or hand eye coordination you are not hitting a bulls eye roughly the size of a dime from just shy of eight feet away with a dart, the book will not give you that.

You can write, or you cannot. use the "how to money" on something more useful. Like a pizza.

Pish posh, Wonder Boy!

I had your attitude when I was 18 and OCD with drawing. At the art supply store a lady suggested a how to book, and I replied I DONT NEED THAT! And she said, IT'LL SAVE YOU 20 YEARS OF FUCKUPS. IT WONT MAKE YOU LEONARDO DA VINCE, BUT IT WILL SPARE YOU THE BASICS.

 

[lovecraft68]

Pish posh, Wonder Boy!

I had your attitude when I was 18 and OCD with drawing. At the art supply store a lady suggested a how to book, and I replied I DONT NEED THAT! And she said, IT'LL SAVE YOU 20 YEARS OF FUCKUPS. IT WONT MAKE YOU LEONARDO DA VINCE, BUT IT WILL SPARE YOU THE BASICS.

If you the basic talent maybe it can help. But it is not going to teach and give the talent and that is what people expect from these books

"Wow, Stephen King is going to teach me how to write!"

Thing with a how to in any field is it will teach you the way the author does it. They create clones not talent

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

If you the basic talent maybe it can help. But it is not going to teach and give the talent and that is what people expect from these books

"Wow, Stephen King is going to teach me how to write!"

Thing with a how to in any field is it will teach you the way the author does it. They create clones not talent

Skills yes, talent no.

But not all writers are capable of PILOT grade masterworks.

 

[lovecraft68]

Skills yes, talent no.

But not all writers are capable of PILOT grade masterworks.

Neither is he

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Neither is he

PILOT is the writing God, and keeps track of every comma-splice and dangling participle.

 

[DwellerDark]

PILOT is the writing God, and keeps track of every comma-splice and dangling participle.

I'm intrigued to read something by this PILOT guy, but I can't figure out a good way to search literotica by author. This place is a labyrinth.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm intrigued to read something by this PILOT guy, but I can't figure out a good way to search literotica by author. This place is a labyrinth.

It used to be really easy.

You would go to the home page click on stories then author index which was every lit author in alphabetical order.

Now you go to author index and get this

http://www.literotica.com/a/

off to the right there i a search box where you can type the authors name and then click on their name again to see their page.

a pain in the ass and you have to know who you are looking for. Another "upgrade" that is more of a down grade.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm intrigued to read something by this PILOT guy, but I can't figure out a good way to search literotica by author. This place is a labyrinth.

PILOT writes well. Gay male does nuthin for me but he writes other stuff that's 5 star quality. But what else would the writing god publish!

 

[oggbashan]

I would recommend reading some classic short stories by authors such as Steinbeck, Kipling, Somerset Maugham and Hemingway.

And essays - Lamb's Elia and Eliana, and Francis Bacon.

For advice about writing? Quiller-Couch: The Art of Reading; The Art of Writing and his lectures.

None of them are How-Tos in the basic sense but all of those should make you think.

For basic information on How To write for Literotica, trawling the How-To category can give a considerable amount of assistance, even if you read one and say to yourself "Rubbish!".

 

[patientlee]

True. You can't learn talent, but you can learn technique. I think anything you read can teach you something if you pay attention. Even a poorly written book can teach you what not to do.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

True. You can't learn talent, but you can learn technique. I think anything you read can teach you something if you pay attention. Even a poorly written book can teach you what not to do.

Very true.

 

[RoyceConnors]

Of all the books I read, nothing helped me more in my own writing, than going through the resources here on this site. I didn't want to write in someone else's style, so it gave me a chance to develop my own.

The basics are all here and more help than one could imagine with authors, editors and feedback. I'm doing okay with what I've learned and putting out fairly readable material, at least my readers think so.

 

[jomar]

For my money I'd add Patrick O'Brien and Robert B. Parker.

 

[oggbashan]

The NaNoWriMo site also has a large number of resources for those starting to write.

Completing a NaNoWriMo challenge in November is one way to build a professional approach to writing something every day.

See this thread for the latest NaNoWriMo:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=941741

 

[Tsotha]

I'm intrigued to read something by this PILOT guy, but I can't figure out a good way to search literotica by author. This place is a labyrinth.

You can use this:

search.literotica.com

Just click on the "authors" tab and type in the username you want.

Hope it helps to find what you're looking for.

 

[SamScribble]

John LeCarre's George Smiley novels are sublime writing.

I'll second that.

 

[sunandshadow]

How To Write books are not all awful. What I'd recommend depends on the definition of "newbie" though. If we're talking about, say, a student under age 16, they really don't need to be reading anything except fiction, and they should read whatever fiction they like best. If they're in the 16-20 age range then Story by Robert McKee is a good survey of recent ideas in writing theory, and TVtropes wiki is also a good way to start learning the terms that the rest of the writing community uses to discuss writing. If they want to be a serious scholar I guess I'd recommend Levi Strauss' Mythologiques as an introduction to structural analysis of stories, and I'd have to do some research to figure out what would make a good introduction to narratology. Oh, and also for a scholar it would be important to read some kind of introduction to transformational generative grammar.

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

Reading doesn't help much. Reading with a critical eye, helps a lot. You have to be reading with the intent to understand WHY it works.

LeCarre, and Elmore Leonard, are two I suggest as well. I used to read a lot of sci/fi and fantasy. Ursula K Leguin, Harlan Ellison, Gene Wolfe, Sheri S. Tepper are remarkable writers. Great short story writers like Theodore Sturgeon and more recently Connie Willis.

I do like a few books on writing. Very few in their entirety, but pieces of several.

Self-Editing for Fiction Writers is something that 99% of the writers on here good learn from. I like Stephen Kings "On Writing." Paula Laroque's "The Book on Writing" has some wonderful nuggets, but contains too much about business writing, and not enough fiction.

 

[SecondCircle]

The passion has to be there, then the talent sorta has to follow as well.

Read. Read a lot. Read what you like, read authors you like, then go a little further and read genres that aren't your favorite but still appeal to you. Watch. Watch your favorite shows, movies, etc. Watch how the story spins, what is revealed when, and what's not. Watch how the characters interact, watch how the dialogue is handled, learn from their flaws and their human nature.

Then sit down and write. Doesn't matter what, just write something you enjoy. Write some more. Little snippets. Long verses of story. Write to entertain.

Along the way, learn from everything. From both the good in what you've read, seen, and written, as well as the terrible, the boring, and shabby. You'll see it all.

Those are the most basic things anyone can do, all else is secondary.

 

[RichardBacula]

Read everything, really.
Read stuff you like, analyze what you like about it, and try to replicate the kind of stuff you like without being too much of an imitation.
Read stuff you don't like, analyze what you don't like about it, and avoid doing that kind of stuff in your own writing.

Also, I'd suggest books on grammar.
Strunk & White's Elements of Style, Martha Kollin's Rhetorical Grammar, and so forth.

King's On Writing is good in a strategic sort of way instead of tactical.

 

[robertreams]

F Scott Fitzgerald is the writers' writer. he could put together elegant perfectly punctuated sentences of any length.

For action - Allistair Mclean

For characters and mood - Ray Bradbury

For humor and description - Mark Twain

And of course, (not really reading) Roget's Theaauraus and Strunk and White.