MS Word

[Handley_Page]

While that is true...most people could care less what is happening behind the curtain, so to speak. Do I care what is in the damn file while it sits in memory or after it is saved to my disk drive...hell no. I only care that the publisher, publishing site wants it in .doc format and not .docx format or some other format for which I have no way of saving my work. Although the .docx format would be easier for them to manipulate as it's in XML format.

But, instead I have become proficient in it's functionality and while some still complain, yes I too have had complaints about Microsoft Word, it's functionality has improved over the years. Yes the UI has been lacking and has changes made that confound those who use the app, it still remains a useful tool of a writer.

If you pig is a prize pig and you decide to put lipstick on it, does that change the fact that it is a pig or even a prize pig?

I think that it is just this view that's got in the way of "Consumer-led" development.
If you cared about how much unnecessary crap is on your drive due to crazy and less-well crafted programming, I believe you might just do it.

And the newer versions of word do not carry the details from an early version to the later one very well. Backward-compatible ? Not very often!

 

[sr71plt]

And the newer versions of word do not carry the details from an early version to the later one very well. Backward-compatible ? Not very often!

I've heard that claimed, but I haven't experienced it. I have four versions of Word on my computer, including 2013. All of them save in 97-2003, which is what the U.S. publishers I work with are still using. And they all manage it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

While that is true...most people could care less what is happening behind the curtain, so to speak. Do I care what is in the damn file while it sits in memory or after it is saved to my disk drive...hell no.

Most people don't want to hear the details, but they care about the consequences. People grumble when their story takes a week to post on Lit - well, one of the reasons posting is slow is because the system has to cope with .doc submissions, and converting a .doc to HTML is nontrivial.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Most people don't want to hear the details, but they care about the consequences. People grumble when their story takes a week to post on Lit - well, one of the reasons posting is slow is because the system has to cope with .doc submissions, and converting a .doc to HTML is nontrivial.

What? Strange, Smashwords does it on the fly within seconds if the queue isn't too long. In fact Smashwords takes the 97 Word doc and converts it to seven different formats. Actually, they convert to Epub first, then convert that to the other formats, but they still do things in real time.

Now how long would it take for anyone to convert it manually? Personally, I don't see Laurel doing it manually. The word conversion to (whatever) has been around for ages. Hell you can down load a any number of conversion programs from Cnet for free. Then write a C program to except a list of word docs to convert and the output format and run the conversion program...easy peasy.

As for people grumbling...they aren't doing a very good job or Microsoft would have coded things better.

I too have Office 1997 through 2013 on my machine, the only problem is that the programs prior to 2007 won't read the .docx extension files. Although there is a plug in for that, I hear.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a salesman for Microsoft, but I am a realist. Microsoft is the big man on campus for the time being and we have to deal with them until something else can gain the support of business and the corporate IT departments.

In most big companies, I have worked for a few, the mantra is Microsoft is king. You aren't allowed to install anything other than Microsoft on your company provided machines.

So, until some other software company can gain that kind of loyal following, I'm afraid we are stuck with Microsoft products the way they are as there is no real competition on the horizon.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What? Strange, Smashwords does it on the fly within seconds if the queue isn't too long. In fact Smashwords takes the 97 Word doc and converts it to seven different formats. Actually, they convert to Epub first, then convert that to the other formats, but they still do things in real time.

Now how long would it take for anyone to convert it manually? Personally, I don't see Laurel doing it manually. The word conversion to (whatever) has been around for ages. Hell you can down load a any number of conversion programs from Cnet for free. Then write a C program to except a list of word docs to convert and the output format and run the conversion program...easy peasy.

The Lit submissions form specifically states that .docs and .rtfm take longer because they have to be processed manually. It's certainly possible to automate this stuff, but I imagine Smashwords has rather more time and budget than Lit for that. (And if MS decide it's time to change the format again just as you finish coding a solution...)

As for people grumbling...they aren't doing a very good job or Microsoft would have coded things better.

This is the nature of a near-monopoly. The customer doesn't have a lot of leverage.

So, until some other software company can gain that kind of loyal following, I'm afraid we are stuck with Microsoft products the way they are as there is no real competition on the horizon.

Indeed. Stross is saying the same thing... doesn't mean he has to like it, though!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The Lit submissions form specifically states that .docs and .rtfm take longer because they have to be processed manually. It's certainly possible to automate this stuff, but I imagine Smashwords has rather more time and budget than Lit for that. (And if MS decide it's time to change the format again just as you finish coding a solution...)



This is the nature of a near-monopoly. The customer doesn't have a lot of leverage.



Indeed. Stross is saying the same thing... doesn't mean he has to like it, though!

Nor do I, but I guess I don't have the audience that he does.

My philosophy...If you have no control over it, why sweat about it.

 

[GradeACdnBeef]

I'd love to say that the pain and suffering caused by Word is insignificant, but it really isn't. Take Smashwords. First they recommend that you use MSWord. Then they take you through about a 20 page process to help you get your document altered to the point that, when you submit your word document, their meat-grinder (their term not mine) will accept the submission. It even requests that you 'nuke' the document by placing it in a text editor to take out the formatting Word puts in and then place it back into the Word document and format it to their specifications.

If this is the case, why do they bother recommending the use of Word. Were they paid to recommend it?

 

[Handley_Page]

A very interesting point, I think

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I'd love to say that the pain and suffering caused by Word is insignificant, but it really isn't. Take Smashwords. First they recommend that you use MSWord. Then they take you through about a 20 page process to help you get your document altered to the point that, when you submit your word document, their meat-grinder (their term not mine) will accept the submission. It even requests that you 'nuke' the document by placing it in a text editor to take out the formatting Word puts in and then place it back into the Word document and format it to their specifications.

If this is the case, why do they bother recommending the use of Word. Were they paid to recommend it?

I found the 20 page instruction easy to follow, but then I was using the format to write my Lit. stories already. The same format for Lit. works for Smashwords. Block paragraphs, 2 hard returns between paragraphs, blah, blah, blah.

The only time I get meatgrinder errors, is when I try something new. Like lines and such. Then I get errors. Now that I have Calibre, I save my word docs as .rtf and convert to .epub to see if what I want will work. Then I submit the word doc to get the auto TOC they produce.

You all know the saying, "If they give you lemons, make lemonade."

 

[Zeb_Carter]

A very interesting point, I think

They're not, Word is a business standard herein the US. Every company, unless they are run by a hippy from out of the sixties, used Office. Those hippy companies use Apple. There are a few shops experimenting with Linux, but Unix was a standard for most corporate servers since the 80's.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Nor do I, but I guess I don't have the audience that he does.

My philosophy...If you have no control over it, why sweat about it.

It's a good philosophy for happiness, but you don't get to be a sci-fi novelist by accepting the status quo

They're not, Word is a business standard herein the US. Every company, unless they are run by a hippy from out of the sixties, used Office. Those hippy companies use Apple. There are a few shops experimenting with Linux, but Unix was a standard for most corporate servers since the 80's.

Erm... you're talking about three different things there. Apple is a computer brand, Linux/Unix are operating systems, Word is a word-processor.

By default, a modern Apple computer runs OS X, which is based on Unix. But you can install Linux on it if you prefer. (Or indeed Windows.)

And then you can install MS Office on any of those (though Linux takes a bit more doing). I regularly use Office on my Apple.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

It's a good philosophy for happiness, but you don't get to be a sci-fi novelist by accepting the status quo



Erm... you're talking about three different things there. Apple is a computer brand, Linux/Unix are operating systems, Word is a word-processor.

By default, a modern Apple computer runs OS X, which is based on Unix. But you can install Linux on it if you prefer. (Or indeed Windows.)

And then you can install MS Office on any of those (though Linux takes a bit more doing). I regularly use Office on my Apple.

Yes, you can. But you missed the point. Office is and has been the gold standard in Corporate America since that scrawny kid quit college to code the very first Disk Operating System and had a vision of what computers were to become and saw that Corporate America was who he had to tackle.

 

[GradeACdnBeef]

Yes, you can. But you missed the point. Office is and has been the gold standard in Corporate America since that scrawny kid quit college to code the very first Disk Operating System and had a vision of what computers were to become and saw that Corporate America was who he had to tackle.

All true. On the other hand, sometimes shit is a gold colour.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes, you can. But you missed the point. Office is and has been the gold standard in Corporate America since that scrawny kid quit college to code the very first Disk Operating System

That's not quite how it happened.

I'm not sure what the first DOS was but, for example, IBM's DOS/360 was announced in 1964 and released in 1966 when Bill Gates was only ten. (He wrote his first computer program at thirteen.)

He dropped out of Harvard in 1975 and founded Microsoft, but that wasn't to write an OS. They put out MS-DOS/PC-DOS in 1981, but even then, Gates didn't write it; it was basically a renamed version of QDOS which they'd bought from others.

As for "gold standard": the first version of MS Word came out in 1983. At that time WordStar was the market leader, until WordPerfect overtook it around 1985. MS Word for DOS never got above 20% of the market share; it wasn't until 1992 that Word for Windows overtook WordPerfect to become market leader.

(I never used WordStar, but some people seem to be very attached to it; I understand GRRM still uses some sort of WordStar port.)

 

[Zeb_Carter]

That's not quite how it happened.

I'm not sure what the first DOS was but, for example, IBM's DOS/360 was announced in 1964 and released in 1966 when Bill Gates was only ten. (He wrote his first computer program at thirteen.)

He dropped out of Harvard in 1975 and founded Microsoft, but that wasn't to write an OS. They put out MS-DOS/PC-DOS in 1981, but even then, Gates didn't write it; it was basically a renamed version of QDOS which they'd bought from others.

As for "gold standard": the first version of MS Word came out in 1983. At that time WordStar was the market leader, until WordPerfect overtook it around 1985. MS Word for DOS never got above 20% of the market share; it wasn't until 1992 that Word for Windows overtook WordPerfect to become market leader.

(I never used WordStar, but some people seem to be very attached to it; I understand GRRM still uses some sort of WordStar port.)

...for a personal computer. (Sorry, left that part out)

 

[JaxRhapsody]

I guess if you dont like ms word, there's always notepad.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I guess if you dont like ms word, there's always notepad.

Hell there's always paper and pencil.

 

[Handley_Page]

Hell there's always paper and pencil.

It's a bit tricky to get that into a computer, though

 

[patientlee]

Hell there's always paper and pencil.

That's how I do it. (Of course, I have to get it to the computer somehow, so Word 2010 it is.)

 

[Celedriel]

The thesaurus is pathetic and the grammar check is a joke. Don't use those features. Turn off spellecheck until your final proofreading.

Otherwise it's fine, as serviceable as any typewriter or text editor. I don't understand the brouhaha.

 

[Handley_Page]

The thesaurus is pathetic and the grammar check is a joke. Don't use those features. Turn off spellecheck until your final proofreading.

Otherwise it's fine, as serviceable as any typewriter or text editor. I don't understand the brouhaha.

Because there are those for whom the screen is the limit,
and
there are those for whom it's the execution of the job.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

It's a bit tricky to get that into a computer, though

That's how I do it. (Of course, I have to get it to the computer somehow, so Word 2010 it is.)

Never heard of a scanner?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The thesaurus is pathetic and the grammar check is a joke. Don't use those features. Turn off spellecheck until your final proofreading.

Otherwise it's fine, as serviceable as any typewriter or text editor. I don't understand the brouhaha.

I have found that spell check is just fine, although you have to double check with a dictionary when you use words that Word has never seen before.

As for the grammar checker, it's mainly aligned to business use, but if you turn the style checker it's fine.

I don't use the thesaurus, I already know what words I want to use. If I run in to some word I need another word for due to repetitiveness, I use Thesaurus.com. It's only a click away.

 

[patientlee]

Never heard of a scanner?

I type faster than my scanner works. Thank god for typing in 7th grade. (Manual typewriter and all.)

 

[FlyAwayFromHere]

I have to agree with word being not up to the job when it comes to anything other than business correspondence. I have got to the point where i only use the spellchecker, and ignore the grammar checker altogether. In some cases it is laughable... I would use notepad if it did not make my eyes funny after a few hours. I don't tend to use any of the other functions when writing online stories. If i want to write a manuscript i use it, but only because people expect you to.