Natural Antibiotics

[Christopher2012]

Killing bacteria in a petri dish is dead easy. Just about anything will do that.

It's killing bacteria inside a human body, without harming the human, that's the tough part.

I have no idea who you are, but I love you. If you're male, totally homo. If you're female, well you're a first!

Wait a minute... That didn't sound right. I've never had homo sex. So regardless of whether you're male or female, it's still a first! Ha!

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have no idea who you are, but I love you. If you're male, totally homo. If you're female, well you're a first!

Wait a minute... That didn't sound right. I've never had homo sex. So regardless of whether you're male or female, it's still a first! Ha!

Woot! Another soul for my internet harem!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So I looked for pharmacist training and see that the required diploma is a Pharm.D. and usually take 8-9 years to get the diploma and licensed.

Pharmacologists earn a PhD.
If I understand what I read pharmacy is applied pharmacology; that is, the pharmacologist knows more of the drug science and less of the medical arts.

Reminds me of psychiatry and psychology. When I went thru school if you wanted a course in brain physiology you got it at the psychology school. You got the anatomy at the medical school.

 

[Christopher2012]

So I looked for pharmacist training and see that the required diploma is a Pharm.D. and usually take 8-9 years to get the diploma and licensed.

Pharmacologists earn a PhD.

Pharmacologists and pharmacy are two different things. Pharmacologists just focus on the drug itself, whereas PharmDs focus on 3 important concepts: medicinal chemistry, pharmacology, and therapeutics.

You don't see many "Pharmacologists" around. When you see the guy at the drug store or the professionals in the hospital, those men and women are pharmaCISTS.

Years ago, to be a pharmacist, all you needed was a BS in Pharmacy. Now, the PharmD is mandatory.

Pharmacy is further divided into "clinical" pharmacists and "retail/staff" pharmacists. Clinical pharmacists know their shit and they are the ones who specialize. Me, I'm a retail pharmacist, which just means I'm a workhorse for a large company who makes a lot of money to be treated like shit by customers, coworkers, and employers.

But hey, it pays the bills and I get to flash around this cool looking deploma and license. And it pays for the VIDEOGAMES that I oh-so-dearly love to play.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...soldiers-wounds-kill-superbug-infections.html

HONEY

 

[thesweetsweetness]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...soldiers-wounds-kill-superbug-infections.html

HONEY

Very neat! Honey is amazing stuff. I use it as a face and hair wash. I've used it to lighten my hair. I use beeswax in my lotion bars. And I eat bee pollen as a supplement. Thanks for sharing this article.

 

[njlauren]

There are naturopathic substances that work and have been proven to do so. For example, in Europe doctors treating low level depression often have their patients start with St. John's wort. Doctors will have patients take red rice yeast as a natural statin as opposed to lipitor and such. And yes, honey has antibiotic properties, as does vinegar, but the thing with that is where is it appropriate? You can use honey to help clean a wound or use to treat a sore throat, but I wouldn't use it to treat strep throat. Echinacea helps boost the immune system and can help fight off viral infections, but is not a cure all.

Can fire ant venom work as an antibiotic? It probably has such properties, but as Bramblethorn points out, that alone doesn't mean much. It could be in the human body the amount of venom you would need would be toxic, which is true of a lot of naturopathic remedies in their native form. There are trans girls who insist you can treat yourself with 'natural hormones', which are phytoestrogenic compounds (i.e they mimic estrogen), like saw palmetto, wild yam and black cohosh, but to work on a genetic male would take so much it could literally kill you.

It is true that folk medicine has produced real medicine, pharm companies have spent a lot of time and effort on ethnopharmacology, which basically means talking to native healers and shamans, seeing what they use and then trying to see if a)the stuff has any benefits and b) how to synthesize it into effective treatments. Taxol (used in cancer) and digitalis came from native healing knowledge, as I believe did the statin drugs (Chris would know that better).

I firmly believe naturopathic treatments can work, but I tend to like best what Andrew Weil does, he practices what he calls complimentary medicine, which takes the best from naturopathic and pharmaceutical company output to treat people. Naturopathic physicians years ago started having heart patients take folic acid and Coq10 supplements, standard medicine pooh poohed until a doctor figured out that an amino acid called homocystein damages artery walls and allows plaque to attach to it (cholesterol that is 'gunked up' by free radicals they collect, sorry for the non scientific word..), and folic acid helps protect against that scarring....

But you are also playing with fire if you think you are going to treat major infections with something like ant venom, it is playing russian roulette with 5 bullets in a revolver. Do I think Doctors always do a great job? No, because they have their own issues, they are caught up in orthodoxy and 'this is the way it is done', and they also quite frankly are subject to influences from the pharm industry, plus they also are afraid if they try going outside the norm, some idiot could sue them. If you are going to try and treat yourself, at the very least look at what people like Andrew Weil have to say, in some cases you could be playing with your life. Would be like eating bread mold if you have a strep throat.....

 

[Christopher2012]

Doctors will have patients take red rice yeast as a natural statin as opposed to lipitor and such.

as I believe did the statin drugs (Chris would know that better).

Red yeast rice has an actual statin in it - lovastatin.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

With the exception of floroquinolones, which is the only major antibiotic class I know that is purely synthetic, the rest of the groups are derived from bacteria - the penicillins, aminoglycosides and cephalosporins. And this is just off the top of my head.

How exactly did you think Alexander Fleming discovered penicillin? I'll tell you - by being a slob, that's what.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

Can fire ant venom work as an antibiotic? It probably has such properties, but as Bramblethorn points out, that alone doesn't mean much. It could be in the human body the amount of venom you would need would be toxic, which is true of a lot of naturopathic remedies in their native form. There are trans girls who insist you can treat yourself with 'natural hormones', which are phytoestrogenic compounds (i.e they mimic estrogen), like saw palmetto, wild yam and black cohosh, but to work on a genetic male would take so much it could literally kill you.


I firmly believe naturopathic treatments can work, but I tend to like best what Andrew Weil does, he practices what he calls complimentary medicine, which takes the best from naturopathic and pharmaceutical company output to treat people. Naturopathic physicians years ago started having heart patients take folic acid and Coq10 supplements, standard medicine pooh poohed until a doctor figured out that an amino acid called homocystein damages artery walls and allows plaque to attach to it (cholesterol that is 'gunked up' by free radicals they collect, sorry for the non scientific word..), and folic acid helps protect against that scarring....

Completely agree. Another thing that many people overlook is that naturopathic medicine tends to work on a preventive level instead of a therapeutic one. There may be merit in the ability of these nature-derived substances, but if they come in subtherapeutic doses, I can't see it working out for anyone.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

Sugar and table salt are antibiotic, too, as are vinegar and Lysol. Even ice has antibiotic properties.

Real progress is always attacked.

http://www.iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/bender-futurama-laughing-oh-wait-youre-serious-laugh-harder-13665020235.gif

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/bender-futurama-laughing-oh-wait-youre-serious-laugh-harder-13665020235.gif

The laughs on you dipstick cuz salt and sugar are used to preserve meat, and soup, and everything.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I am personally into natural antibiotics, folk medicine, and have been for years. My teenage son recently had severe 2nd degree burns on several areas of his body from an accident. After much research, I concluded Raw Honey, as JamesB stated (honey), is considered an excellent burn remedy, with natural antibiotic properties (it must be Raw to be effective.) I then brought my new found info to my local pharmacist, who also suggested it is recommended for natural wound and burn care.

On my journey to the local feed store for this jar of raw honey, the old clerk at the feed store, pointed me to the colloidal silver spray, as silver sulfate, often used/suggested for burn care, was not available OTC. While the colloidal silver was sold in a feed store, it was listed as Human Grade, and is sold for wound care. Two weeks after the scare with his injuries, he is almost 100% healed, no infections, several of the blisters stayed intact for quite a long time, and so far, there is minimal if any scarring. It was quite the chore to keep everything clean and covered; daily burn care routines were established, which aided in his healing.

In the end, applying honey to his injuries, seemed awkward, though it is a suggested method for burn and wound care. While this is my personal experience, and I am by far an expert, I know the silver worked for my situation, had I seen signs of infection, I would have more likely than not sought traditional medical help. Sepsis risk is high with open burn wounds, amidst other complications, such as MRSA, and it would not be worth risking his life sticking to natural healing.

The other thing is, natural aids come from Nature with enough genetic variety that bugs are foiled trying to resist the treatment properties. Drug companies make the same stuff in bazillions of identical copies, Nature makes something a wee bit different every time.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

The laughs on you dipstick cuz salt and sugar are used to preserve meat, and soup, and everything.

Do yourself a favor - Google antibiotics, Google disinfectants. And sure, we'll just rub some salt/sugar on an infected wound, and who needs penicillin for pneumonia? Sod that, we'll just give 'em an i.v. infusion of salt and fire ant venom, that should do the trick.

Done Googling? Refer back to the .gif I posted. Still stands.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

And with the genetic varieties, comes strength for resistance against the varying properties of natural rememdies. I personally enjoy your posts, gardening, et al...any chickens experiences? Not sexually speaking, but have some hens picking on a couple other hens, wanted some advice. Big bullies!

There are all kinds of reasons hens peck other hens.

Dominance/pecking order issues. Remove the offenders from the flock for a few days, to reset the pecking order process. If that doesnt work add the worst offenders to the freezer.

Illness or stress in one bird causes aggression from the others. Separate the ill bird from the others for a while.

Inadequate space causes hostile pecking.

Its just like at work or school, if the flock is stressed they go after the runts.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Do yourself a favor - Google antibiotics, Google disinfectants. And sure, we'll just rub some salt/sugar on an infected wound, and who needs penicillin for pneumonia? Sod that, we'll just give 'em an i.v. infusion of salt and fire ant venom, that should do the trick.

Done Googling? Refer back to the .gif I posted. Still stands.

Dear? You miss the salient points because youre too OCD.

I sometimes use saliva as a sex lubricant when other things aren't available. Soap also works (bur not Lava!)

Do yourself a favor and Google LADDER OF ABSTRACTION.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

Dear? You miss the salient points because youre too OCD.

I sometimes use saliva as a sex lubricant when other things aren't available. Soap also works (bur not Lava!)

Do yourself a favor and Google LADDER OF ABSTRACTION.

Excellent metaphor. Perfect parsing of rhetoric here, I'm completely bowled over.

It's like arguing with dining table. That's enough Internet for me today.

 

[Christopher2012]

Do yourself a favor - Google antibiotics, Google disinfectants. And sure, we'll just rub some salt/sugar on an infected wound, and who needs penicillin for pneumonia? Sod that, we'll just give 'em an i.v. infusion of salt and fire ant venom, that should do the trick.

Done Googling? Refer back to the .gif I posted. Still stands.

Well to be fair to JBJ, he was only referring to minor skin infections in his original post. Secondly, we do actually use salt in our daily lives as an antibiotic. Think about when you wake up in the middle of the night with a horrible sore throat. A good thing to do is to gargle warm/moderately hot salt water. It will numb the throat and it does serve the purpose of fighting infection.

Anyway, that's my 0.02.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

Well to be fair to JBJ, he was only referring to minor skin infections in his original post. Secondly, we do actually use salt in our daily lives as an antibiotic. Think about when you wake up in the middle of the night with a horrible sore throat. A good thing to do is to gargle warm/moderately hot salt water. It will numb the throat and it does serve the purpose of fighting infection.

Anyway, that's my 0.02.

Even as a topical ointment, mixing the two up just won't do. It's not even a matter of semantics - disinfectants and antibiotics serve completely different purposes. You wouldn't put Lysol on a wound.

You're right about salt helping sore throats - however, it's because the the hypertonic salt solution draws fluid away from the congested mucosa of the pharynx, decreasing the edema and making it less painful. The physical flushing mechanism of the water is also credited with reducing recovery time. A common fallacy is that the salt water kills the bacteria in the throat - that is sadly false.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Even as a topical ointment, mixing the two up just won't do. It's not even a matter of semantics - disinfectants and antibiotics serve completely different purposes. You wouldn't put Lysol on a wound.

You're right about salt helping sore throats - however, it's because the the hypertonic salt solution draws fluid away from the congested mucosa of the pharynx, decreasing the edema and making it less painful. The physical flushing mechanism of the water is also credited with reducing recovery time. A common fallacy is that the salt water kills the bacteria in the throat - that is sadly false.

It kills bacteria by bursting the cell wall.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/mole00/mole00093.htm

THE KID WILL EXPLAIN IT TO YOU.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

It kills bacteria by bursting the cell wall.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/mole00/mole00093.htm

THE KID WILL EXPLAIN IT TO YOU.

Via osmosis? Definitely. In the time it takes you to gargle? No.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Via osmosis? Definitely. In the time it takes you to gargle? No.

Go away young sissy, youre an idiot.

 

[drunkenphilosophy]

Go away young sissy, youre an idiot.

Ah, the best comeback when all logic is exhausted - to insult. Going away now, I've wasted my daily quota on morons.

Till then, be a lamb and read up on all the topics we've discussed today. Osmosis is a good start! Fifteen year olds seem to understand it better than you do.

Adieu!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ah, the best comeback when all logic is exhausted - to insult. Going away now, I've wasted my daily quota on morons.

Till then, be a lamb and read up on all the topics we've discussed today. Osmosis is a good start! Fifteen year olds seem to understand it better than you do.

Adieu!

Yo mama was in diapers when I started reading up on the subject.

Youre another poser with a LIT Bull Shit Diploma.

 

[Christopher2012]

Even as a topical ointment, mixing the two up just won't do. It's not even a matter of semantics - disinfectants and antibiotics serve completely different purposes. You wouldn't put Lysol on a wound.

You're right about salt helping sore throats - however, it's because the the hypertonic salt solution draws fluid away from the congested mucosa of the pharynx, decreasing the edema and making it less painful. The physical flushing mechanism of the water is also credited with reducing recovery time. A common fallacy is that the salt water kills the bacteria in the throat - that is sadly false.

Well, this is true. You will never fight strep throat with salt water. Also, the sore throat is usually the cause of the common cold, which is a virus.

Whether or not salt has antibiotic properties is really not an argument that I want to fight right now simply because I do not feel like looking up the resources to prove my point. And besides, I never said that it's an option for therapy. I just merely pointed out that it may help.

Remember, we're on the same team in this debate. Pretty much everything JBJ says is "hogwash," to speak his language. So, as a licensed pharmacist in the state of Georgia, I will continue to state my opinion that salt has slight antibiotic properties. And likewise, as a whatever kind of licensed profession you are, you can continue to state your professional opinion that it does not.