Shame! Confusion! Masturbation!

[ameliajax]

Ok, that's actually the title, sort of, of my latest blog post, but when I was writing it, I started to wonder.

You know how when you are young, and you have something to hide that you think is awful or shameful, you think you are the only person in the world that this could be happening to?

That's how I felt when I had these submissive urges, and I didn't know what they were, or understand what I was feeling. I had always had bondage/reluctance fantasies, ever since I was a little little girl, but it wasn't until I started having sex that I really felt I had something to hide. And even though I lost my virginity to the boy who eventually grew up and became my Master, at the time I was afraid of how I felt, and didn't even tell him. And I definitely did not tell him how much time I spent masturbating.

I thought I was probably the only 18-year-old girl on the planet who was such a freak.

I'm not going to regale the group with yet another thread that asks "when did you realize you were into BDSM" etc. But here are some thoughts.

1. When you did start to realize these feelings, were you ashamed of them? When and why did you start to accept them? For me it wasn't until the last few years, and I'm an old lady.

2. Here's something only semi-related, that I've ALWAYS wondered. Why is it so accepted that boys/men masturbate, but not women? Why don't women joke with their friends about it like guys do? Why does it have to be some big secret? And yes, I know there are definitely exceptions to the rule, some ladies have awesome girlfriends that they can talk to ... but the norm? I have some pretty awesome friends and I have no idea if any of them masturbate, use toys, etc, because we NEVER talk about it.

Why?

 

[sunflowersubmits]

1) Oh my gosh I felt like the biggest freak ever! From the time I was in middle school until my second year of college I thought I was so disgusting that anytime I would masturbate while thinking anything kinky I would find a way to punish myself for it. I decided to accept it when I realized just how unhappy I was. I stopped judging myself and realized I was amazing just the way I was. It probably helped that I was having sex with a very open man.

2) Something psychological and deep that I don't fully understand. I am sure it has something to do with prejudice against women and not wanting women to be empowered by their own sexuality.

 

[LittleSparks]

1) I've known since I was around 6 years old that I'm a Masochist. It terrified me, and at times the people around me. I never knew what to call it until late in middle school when I ran into a Sadist who I became good friends with (though we were careful to respect our friendship and not play with each other, being that we were both very inexperienced). However, we were able to talk about it freely with each other. Other than with that one friend I never spoke to anyone else about it until a couple of years back, when I started having sex with my boyfriend. At that time I also tuned into my submissive side. I think I am still struggling way more with being submissive than with Masochism, simply because I'm such a ball buster in pretty much everything else I do.

2) My friends, a group of about 4 ladies and 3 guys, try hard to be the exception to this rule. To the point that if we hang out around other people they have to loosen up very quickly or leave. If we offend some bystanders while we're at it, we take their reactions in stride and actually rather enjoy how freaked out or annoyed some people get. It's very funny and fulfilling when out at a restaurant or bar, and everyone feels totally comfortable discussing sudden urges to masturbate at work or the newest dildo craze. We feel like normalizing this kind of dialogue can really give people some food for thought, as long as we're taking care to respect the preferences and experiences of others. I think that lame "be the change" motto really applies in this case.

 

[Stella_Omega]

At that time I also tuned into my submissive side. I think I am still struggling way more with being submissive than with Masochism, simply because I'm such a ball buster in pretty much everything else I do.

Maybe you don't need to be submissive. or when you do decide to be submissive, you don't have to internalise it.

Just a thought.

I knew that I needed to keep my desires to myself. But that was just one thing out of many that made me different, and that made it easy enough to hide because I was used to not mentioning any of it... Sometimes I think it was easier in the 60s/70s because there was such a clear demarcation between the Establishment and the hippies.

 

[VWSinger]

I'm certain that most men would be absolutely delighted to hear women discuss their masturbatory technique and experiences (live demonstrations would be even better), so no, I don't think the eeevill Patriarchy is to blame for this one.

 

[LittleSparks]

I'm certain that most men would be absolutely delighted to hear women discuss their masturbatory technique and experiences (live demonstrations would be even better), so no, I don't think the eeevill Patriarchy is to blame for this one.

That's a pretty simple-minded way of thinking about it, really. The whole "men want a lady on the street and a freak in the bed" thing is alive and well. A woman openly discussing sexual experiences, preferences, or what have you is more likely to be looked down upon as oversexed, promiscuous, troubled, shameless etc. "Not someone you want to marry."

This has been my personal experience, the experience of the women I am close to, and, dare I say it, the experience of many women in general. The irony being that "freak in the bed" is completely unattainable when most women feel uncomfortable in their own bodies, with their own sexuality. I've been lucky to find myself surrounded by women who seem to be breaking out of this ridiculousness, and the fact the there is much less of this crap in the BDSM community is a point of pride.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree with LittleSparks. it's much easier to discuss this online and anonymously. I spent decades keeping it all to myself. And men might want to hear about it-- but if it turns out that her masturbation is something they can't take over and do for her, they often end up feeling rejected and angry.

To men; Please stop thinking that "the patriarchy" means "you personally." It's so much bigger than any one person, it's like a minnow thinking it is the river. Patriarchy screws men up just as badly as it does women.

 

[sunflowersubmits]

To men; Please stop thinking that "the patriarchy" means "you personally." It's so much bigger than any one person, it's like a minnow thinking it is the river. Patriarchy screws men up just as badly as it does women.

I have talked with many men who have been screwed over by this thinking. They think they have to be strong/dominant and they never have their needs met. Heaven forbid someone think that they are a sissy. It is very sad really.

 

[Tomahawk26]

Patriarchy screws men up just as badly as it does women.

Yeeess! I honestly think, despite all the crap we face as women and how culturally ingrained and supported misogyny is, being a man isn't that much better--"true" masculinity is just as narrowly and arbitrarily defined and "true" femininity...


As for the question posed by the OP, I was watching Secretary yesterday, just out of curiosity; I've become very interested in how mainstream-ish culture handles BDSM. And that was one part of it that I totally couldn't relate to--Grey's self-loathing based on his desires. I have NEVER even questioned why I like being submissive, nor have I ever felt fucked up for liking what I like, and no one has ever made me feel so. I started having gang bang and prostitution fantasies at something like 14 or 15. I never explored these fantasies with anyone other than my husband though--we've been together since I was 21.

As for talking about sex/masturbation openly, I do know of a lot of my friends' proclivities. Most of them are on my derby team though, so I think that's probably not a good sample from which to determine how open the average person is. I'm not a big fan of masturbation myself, so I don't feel very inspired to talk about it, and can't offer an opinion on whether/why women do/don't feel comfortable talking openly about it.

 

[FurryFury]

I only accepted my kink in my 40's though I knew something was different and in my own mind, wrong, since I was in 5th grade and possibly sooner.

I've been masturbating since that time and possibly sooner. A friend gave me some ideas on how to start so you see some girls do talk about it.

I'm a huge fan of masturbation because I believe it can help you more carefully pick sex partners if you want but don't need them for satisfaction.

I don't think I felt guilty about masturbation only that I was doing it to base fantasies like rape rather than ideas about love. I was discrete though and that is how it should be, IMO.

 

[KoPilot]

1. When I was in middle-school, shortly after puberty. It didn't occur to me to be "ashamed' of it, though. It was more like "this isn't really something I'd talk about with anybody"... like a lot of things that aren't sex-related.

2. I was way late to the masturbation game, but it got old after a year or two. Taking birth control didn't "help" in that department either. (I say "help" because I actually like having a greatly diminished libido.) I haven't masturbated in 2 years now aside from a couple times to see if it'd gotten any better, and while I am pretty vocal about this online and have zero shame whatsoever (it is definitely possible to have this become an internal struggle, having grown up in a generation of seemingly greater sex-positivity), I did go the entirety of my teenage years feeling like I was likely the only person that didn't masturbate-- despite watching, reading, and drawing porn pretty religiously.

I'm probably not a good sample at all because none of the friends I had growing up talked about masturbation, fantasies, or their sex lives (none of us had any), except for one gal in high school, and she was a pretty strident feminist that cared a lot about good sex ed and health and all that. All things considered, this was probably an ideal situation for me to be in at the time.

3. Re: "patriarchy hurts men too"; it does, no denying that at all. However, it should be remembered that while there are countless ways men and women can fail at gender performance, and that the consequences are awful, the benefits from performing manhood successfully completely outshine the benefits for doing the same for womanhood. Women still have glass ceilings and men still have glass escalators. (And trans* folk can't even enter into this discussion because many of them are just trying to keep from ending up homeless or dead in ditches.)

 

[marieR19]

1. When I first started realizing these things, I was young enough that it terrified me. Hell yeah it ashamed me. I was a freak! Because I was young enough that it wasn't a sexual thing; I just knew I liked being ordered around and hit. Especially when I actually had a friend with an abusive foster parent.... yeah, I felt pretty damn confused about why I would want something like that. However, in 9th grade my best friend (and technically 1st girlfriend) introduced me to the concept of bdsm, and once I learned that there were actual *words* for what I felt, that I wasn't the only one in the world feeling that way... I haven't felt ashamed since.

2. Can't answer this personally as I don't masturbate often at all and certainly don't talk about it. However, imo it's just one of those stupid stereotypes. Men like sex. Men want sex, men think about sex often. So of course they'll talk about sexual things. Women are ladies, all nice and proper and polite, so of course they wouldn't talk about something like that. Fairly outdated stereotypes, sure, but imo that's basically what it comes down to.

 

[Netzach]

2. Here's something only semi-related, that I've ALWAYS wondered. Why is it so accepted that boys/men masturbate, but not women? Why don't women joke with their friends about it like guys do? Why does it have to be some big secret? And yes, I know there are definitely exceptions to the rule, some ladies have awesome girlfriends that they can talk to ... but the norm? I have some pretty awesome friends and I have no idea if any of them masturbate, use toys, etc, because we NEVER talk about it.

Why?

Sexism? Introversion? Don't know?

I have awesome friends. We're all post "Our Bodies Ourselves" and neither completely in your face nor really ashamed of liking sex. I think I've had joking moments at least and conversations at most with like 9/10 of my friends, and I tend to play it pretty close to the chest unless the other person isn't.

I've been masturbating, well let's put it this way, a LONG LONG time. It's still entertaining today as it was long ago, gets me off reliably better than anything else and still rocks. I really haven't had a ton of sexual "shame" more frustration because the rest of the world treats my desires as more or less a cartoon and a punchline. To be a dominant woman is to have to figure out what's been stripped from you every time you get off, it's kind of exhausting. Hence a lot of masturbation!

 

[njlauren]

I'm certain that most men would be absolutely delighted to hear women discuss their masturbatory technique and experiences (live demonstrations would be even better), so no, I don't think the eeevill Patriarchy is to blame for this one.

I suggest you listen to the rantings of the religious drooolers, the RC, all the rest, when someone even mentions masturbation. A candidate for surgeon general was turned down because she suggested that masturbation be taught in sex ed as a safe alternate to teen sex.....

More importantly, when they rant about sexuality, it usually seems to focus on women's sexuality, women getting pregnant (never talk about the boys who did it),and so forth. Women have been taught it is dirty to talk about sex, it is frowned upon, because women's sex is considered dirty , consciously or unconsciously. Even the most conservative will give a nod, nod, wink wink to a teen boy who is masturbating, getting caught looking at playboy, or for that matter having sex (among which the religious conservatives see sex as women seducing men, they haven't gotten over the adam and eve horseshit)

Patriarchy is basically the old double standard, that women who have sex are sluts, men are studs, that 'boys wlll be boys' while a girl who has sex is a jezebel, roundheels, whatever. Read some of the stories on lit about women who have sex outside the marriage, consensual or not, and you see rage, venom, at the authors, and in the comments, calling the women whores, sluts, trash, etc....but when the story features a husband who cheats, or if a wife cheats with a married guy, about him, it is never like that, either they are mysteriously silent or they may say "well, he was wrong",but you dont see him vilified, skewered, called garbage, etc......

It isn't that all men are like that, but the problem is, a lot of men aren't even aware it is out there, because it is so pervasive, part of the background, they don't question it or even see it exists, if they hear the slut/stud dichotomy, it doesn't register, which is a problem. They themselves might not see it that way, but they don't see how pervsive that is.

 

[sweepthefloor]

2.) I can only type my own idea why this topic is not spoken about openly—for me sexual masturbatory release is kind of like eating food, taking a shower, or eliminating waste. I wouldn’t ring my friend up and say: I ate a piece of bread with salted butter, took a shower, and had a bowel movement today.

A while back I was at this party with all work friends. Everyone was talking about the power that was out for a while due to the storm. This nurse we work with starts talking about running out of batteries for her vibrator on the dark and stormy night.

My face turned bright red. She called me out and said: Please don't act like you don't know what I'm saying girl, like you don't do things like that.

I don't insert anything into my body. I almost told her that I fuck myself with a pillow and don't need any batteries for that, but I just smiled and looked dumb. I felt ashamed for blushing, not for what she was talking about. Confusion!

 

[LittleSparks]

Hmm having a vibrator doesn't necessarily indicate that there's insertion of anything going on, but it's sad that she called you out like that. There are varying degrees of "masturbaters" as my friend like to say.

 

[sweepthefloor]

Hmm having a vibrator doesn't necessarily indicate that there's insertion of anything going on, but it's sad that she called you out like that. There are varying degrees of "masturbaters" as my friend like to say.

Oh yeah, I didn't consider that vibrators are probably not for inserting. I don't think she was intending to be mean. It was kind of funny, and sometimes my face just gets red with or without shame. It's unexplainable.

I had a recent conversation with a work friend about my face. We were discussing if I was shy or not, because sometimes when there is flirting going on at the desk I get red and walk away. She thinks it's hilarious how I easily escape and then come back later like nothing ever happened. I explained to her that I just like to maintain boundaries in the work environment.

but I wonder if there is an element of shame and confusion that causes blushing with or without masturbator speak.