China Builds High-Speed Rail Links; U.S. to 'Invest' in Armed Guards for Schools.

[Squibbs]

What does that have to do with the fact that you're wrong.

To be fair, he's usually only wrong on calendar days.

 

[thør]

In fact, building an HSR atop existing Amtrak lines would be the most cost-effective way of achieving HSR in the U.S. Gets more complicated cross-country, however.

They might need to acquire some new ROW.

 

[KingOrfeo]

HSR, now, is all very well and good as an alternative to flying. But what America really needs is a much, much finer network of conventional rail, and commuter rail, and light rail and streetcars, so we can have alternatives to driving.

But nobody seems to talk that much about more conventional rail -- it's not sexy like HSR is, it's just, you know, trains, those things you sometimes have to stop for when you're driving.

 

[Saint Peter]

I shall be in St. Pete to ring in the New Year.

They still give out free newspapers when it rains.

Go easy.

 

[islandman]

Go easy.

You say that like it's his first time.

 

[islandman]

They might need to acquire some new ROW.

I haven't had good roe in ages.

HSR, now, is all very well and good as an alternative to flying. But what America really needs is a much, much finer network of conventional rail, and commuter rail, and light rail and streetcars, so we can have alternatives to driving.

But nobody seems to talk that much about more conventional rail -- it's not sexy like HSR is, it's just, you know, trains, those things you sometimes have to stop for when you're driving.

There's a reason why mass transit hasn't worked outside of the eastern seaboard.

Also, there's no reason to demonize driving. Makes more sense to drive from second-tier city to second-tier city than it does investing in commuter rail, and especially so when highways and byways are already paid for.

 

[thør]

I haven't had good roe in ages.

I can send you all the salmon roe you want, but the speedy trains are going to need more land (Right of Way). New curves and grades.

 

[richard_daily]

I haven't had good roe in ages.






There's a reason why mass transit hasn't worked outside of the eastern seaboard.

Also, there's no reason to demonize driving. Makes more sense to drive from second-tier city to second-tier city than it does investing in commuter rail, and especially so when highways and byways are already paid for.

Highways require more upkeep, and are increasingly outdated and overworked.

Most cities were built with about half the traffic they currently have in mind.

Mass transit, HSR, and LSR would take a great deal of traffic off of those highways, and it would be cleaner and more sustainable.

The upfront cost is nothing compared to the cost if things continue along the trajectory that they're on for another 20 years without taking action.

 

[mercury14]

Airlines are subsidized?

Which airport did American Airlines build?

 

[thør]

Highways require more upkeep, and are increasingly outdated and overworked.

Most cities were built with about half the traffic they currently have in mind.

Mass transit, HSR, and LSR would take a great deal of traffic off of those highways, and it would be cleaner and more sustainable.

The upfront cost is nothing compared to the cost if things continue along the trajectory that they're on for another 20 years without taking action.

But, but, but......

You are what you drive. And if you drive nothing, you're nobody.....

At least, too many people in the US believe this is true.

 

[ChinaBandit]

well

now they will get to hell just a bit faster


Message From China’s Collectivist Utopia

http://moonbattery.com/chinese-labor-camp-message.jpg
This note found in with some crap from China indicates that not only is there no free lunch, there is no extremely cheap lunch. If you don’t pay full price, somebody else is making up the difference.

chinese-labor-camp-message
The note, like the box of Halloween decorations in which it traveled to America, appears to be a product of China’s system of re-education labor camps, which allows for detention without trial. It reeks of despair:

“If you occasionally buy this product, please kindly resend this letter to the World Human Right Organization. Thousands people here who are under the persicution of the Chinese Communist Party Government will thank and remember you forever.”

The graveyard kit, the letter read, was made in unit 8, department 2 of the Masanjia Labor Camp in Shenyang, China.

Chinese characters broke up choppy English sentences.

“People who work here have to work 15 hours a day without Saturday, Sunday break and any holidays. Otherwise, they will suffer torturement, beat and rude remark. Nearly no payment (10 yuan/1 month).”

Ten yuan is equivalent to $1.61.

Our progressive ruling class has made no secret of its admiration for communist China (see here and here and here), which is apparently serving as a model to guide the “fundamental transformation” of America. When liberals have imposed their utopia, where will we send our desperate pleas for help?

This letter is an absolute fake!

Who would believe a Chinese laborer would use the word "occassionally"?

There are no Chinese equivalent characters for the meaning. Moreover, words like "holidays" and "break" are not in the Chinese lexicon either.

It's laughable...

 

[islandman]

I can send you all the salmon roe you want, but the speedy trains are going to need more land (Right of Way). New curves and grades.

We can do it!

 

[islandman]

Which airport did American Airlines build?

Which airwaves did CBS, NBC and ABC pay for?

As someone put it before, the government provides initial capital and/or infrastructure. That's a far cry from the government subsidizing every 777 purchased by AA.

 

[mercury14]

Which airwaves did CBS, NBC and ABC pay for?

As someone put it before, the government provides initial capital and/or infrastructure. That's a far cry from the government subsidizing every 777 purchased by AA.

Those networks provide their own transmissions so I don't see the logic here.

 

[islandman]

Highways require more upkeep, and are increasingly outdated and overworked.

Most cities were built with about half the traffic they currently have in mind.

Mass transit, HSR, and LSR would take a great deal of traffic off of those highways, and it would be cleaner and more sustainable.

The upfront cost is nothing compared to the cost if things continue along the trajectory that they're on for another 20 years without taking action.

Couldn't disagree more.

So long as cars have tires, highways will never be outdated. Sure, they require upkeep, re-configuring, and expansion, but that's the nature of growth. Build an HSR today and if successful, people will be calling for more links, even faster service and double-decker trains. Will we be calling for investment in teleportation then?

Not sure what you mean by 'more sustainable'....is an electric car more or less sustainable than a high-speed train on a per-person basis? I don't know the answer to that.

 

[islandman]

Those networks provide their own transmissions so I don't see the logic here.

Their own transmissions across Federal bandwidth, which could be sold today if not given outright to those networks at the birth of the television industry to support the new medium. So, airwaves for free equals JFK for free.

 

[richard_daily]

But, but, but......

You are what you drive. And if you drive nothing, you're nobody.....

At least, too many people in the US believe this is true.

Nail, head.

This is exactly what the problem is. People don't want to sit someone that they don't know, and would rather live in an isolated bubble, on their trip to and from work.

People are terrified of community, and that fear is what keeps mass transit from becoming a reality in many cities. What happened with the commuter rail in Milwaukee a few years ago is a perfect example; the people of the outlying suburbs were afraid that "people from the city" would come out and commit crime, so they shot it down. Never mind that there's no actual proof to support that fear, it's just the fear itself that's enough to keep people from having anything to do with inner cities, except for the business centers of course.

Couldn't disagree more.

So long as cars have tires, highways will never be outdated. Sure, they require upkeep, re-configuring, and expansion, but that's the nature of growth. Build an HSR today and if successful, people will be calling for more links, even faster service and double-decker trains. Will we be calling for investment in teleportation then?

Not sure what you mean by 'more sustainable'....is an electric car more or less sustainable than a high-speed train on a per-person basis? I don't know the answer to that.

Highways are already outdated in LA, Atlanta, and other cities with traffic that makes you sit an hour to go a few miles.

If you don't realize that, you're just not paying attention.

HSR would be an investment in keeping things sustainable, expanding highways is just an (expensive) road to nowhere.

Growth... which is exactly what we're talking about. Would you rather grow in a more polluting, artery clogging way, or would you rather use smart urban planning to create the cities of the future that are built for true movement, rather than individual "identity" through the use of automobiles.

You're making a specious argument with the "teleportation" quip, but whatever, that's your way.

 

[thør]

Nail, head.

This is exactly what the problem is. People don't want to sit someone that they don't know, and would rather live in an isolated bubble, on their trip to and from work.

When I travel out of state, if the city I'm to do business in has decent public transport, I don't bother with renting a vehicle. It's just a pain in the ass to deal with one, much less, to park it. I was in San Fransisco a few weeks ago and BART is great. The schedule was much better than when I was at Berkeley back in the '70's. It was much faster than driving and cheap, too.

 

[islandman]

Nail, head.

This is exactly what the problem is. People don't want to sit someone that they don't know, and would rather live in an isolated bubble, on their trip to and from work.

People are terrified of community, and that fear is what keeps mass transit from becoming a reality in many cities. What happened with the commuter rail in Milwaukee a few years ago is a perfect example; the people of the outlying suburbs were afraid that "people from the city" would come out and commit crime, so they shot it down. Never mind that there's no actual proof to support that fear, it's just the fear itself that's enough to keep people from having anything to do with inner cities, except for the business centers of course.



Highways are already outdated in LA, Atlanta, and other cities with traffic that makes you sit an hour to go a few miles.

If you don't realize that, you're just not paying attention.

HSR would be an investment in keeping things sustainable, expanding highways is just an (expensive) road to nowhere.

Growth... which is exactly what we're talking about. Would you rather grow in a more polluting, artery clogging way, or would you rather use smart urban planning to create the cities of the future that are built for true movement, rather than individual "identity" through the use of automobiles.

You're making a specious argument with the "teleportation" quip, but whatever, that's your way.

Ignoring decades-old, underfunded investment in our highways in favour of the HSR is akin to sticking one's head in the sand and hoping for a miracle solution, which in your case is the HSR. To your 'nail, head" comment, you've admitted that Americans won't give up their cars, making the HSR - logically - a complementary solution at best

Further, using LA's traffic as a basis for the HSR makes no sense given that the HSR isn't used "to go a few miles". It would be used to go hundreds of miles. To go a few miles and avoid an hour's traffic, they would use LA's Metro system. But hang on....[shocker] the Metro system is severely under-utilized for its size! [/shocker]

This leaves your sole argument for the HSR as "green and sustainable" as though that's nearly enough of a basis to effect a paradigm shift in how people travel. I've noted that you always end your arguments with a social commentary on how people must be moved towards your view of a utopian dream, in this case one in which people "abandon their bubbles in favour of true community". I'm more of a realist, one that believes in incremental change over the long run can lead to paradigm shifts. You might as well wish upon a falling star.

And that, as you're aware, is your thing.

 

[richard_daily]

When I travel out of state, if the city I'm to do business in has decent public transport, I don't bother with renting a vehicle. It's just a pain in the ass to deal with one, much less, to park it. I was in San Fransisco a few weeks ago and BART is great. The schedule was much better than when I was at Berkeley back in the '70's. It was much faster than driving and cheap, too.

Exactly. I get all over the bay area on BART and MUNI every time I get there. I try to take the trolleys at least once per trip if I have time. In a city with decent public transportation, there's no need for anything else.

Ignoring decades-old, underfunded investment in our highways in favour of the HSR is akin to sticking one's head in the sand and hoping for a miracle solution, which in your case is the HSR. To your 'nail, head" comment, you've admitted that Americans won't give up their cars, making the HSR - logically - a complementary solution at best

Further, using LA's traffic as a basis for the HSR makes no sense given that the HSR isn't used "to go a few miles". It would be used to go hundreds of miles. To go a few miles and avoid an hour's traffic, they would use LA's Metro system. But hang on....[shocker] the Metro system is severely under-utilized for its size! [/shocker]

This leaves your sole argument for the HSR as "green and sustainable" as though that's nearly enough of a basis to effect a paradigm shift in how people travel. I've noted that you always end your arguments with a social commentary on how people must be moved towards your view of a utopian dream, in this case one in which people "abandon their bubbles in favour of true community". I'm more of a realist, one that believes in incremental change over the long run can lead to paradigm shifts. You might as well wish upon a falling star.

And that, as you're aware, is your thing.

HSR isn't for inner city commutes, it's for inter-city commutes, which I'm sure you realize, but you're just being obtuse about.

LA is a great example of wasted opportunity in regards to public transit. They don't have adequate connecting buses to their trains, and the schedules don't sync up, so of course it's going to be underutilized, because the organization of the system is a joke.

Americans can be trained to take public transit, in the exact same way that they've been trained to over-use cars. The main obstacle to public transit is (and always has been) the auto industry. The real problem with adequate public transit, is that it takes away sales from Detroit, and in this economy, there isn't going to be much push for anything that does that, but it's still a short-sighted approach.

Maintaining highways is expensive, and in many/most cases in inner cities, there's no place to expand to, the right of ways are where they're going to be, and you're not going to have cities claiming eminent domain and paying market value on thousands of homes and businesses, to expand something that will be outdated by the time it gets finished.

Highways don't work in today's increasingly crowded inner cities, if you don't' realize that, you must live in the suburbs.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

lol... that's crazy

 

[bronzeage]

Could we compromise and require armed guards on all high speed rail cars?

This way, we get high speed interstate mass transit and sell more guns at the same time. It's win-win and every once in a while, someone gets shot.

What's the down side?

 

[islandman]

HSR isn't for inner city commutes, it's for inter-city commutes, which I'm sure you realize, but you're just being obtuse about.

Didn't realize using your own words against you was defined as being 'obtuse'.

Highways are already outdated in LA, Atlanta, and other cities with traffic that makes you sit an hour to go a few miles.

If you don't realize that, you're just not paying attention.

In a city with decent public transportation, there's no need for anything else.

NYC says you're wrong.

Boston says you're wrong.

D.C. says you're wrong.

Chicago says you're wrong.

Americans can be trained to take public transit, in the exact same way that they've been trained to over-use cars. The main obstacle to public transit is (and always has been) the auto industry. The real problem with adequate public transit, is that it takes away sales from Detroit, and in this economy, there isn't going to be much push for anything that does that, but it's still a short-sighted approach.

It's pretty easy to call out being short-sighted when it's someone else's dime, isn't it.

Highways don't work in today's increasingly crowded inner cities, if you don't' realize that, you must live in the suburbs.

Again, I'm in NYC and NYC says you're wrong.

Any city with decent public transportation is also going to be a commerce hub that will require highways and the like. Ergo, they have decent public transportation so as to free up said highways and the like for commerce.

Maintaining highways is expensive, and in many/most cases in inner cities, there's no place to expand to, the right of ways are where they're going to be, and you're not going to have cities claiming eminent domain and paying market value on thousands of homes and businesses, to expand something that will be outdated by the time it gets finished.

Again, NYC says you're wrong. Highways are being expanded vertically where feasible. You can't turn around here without running into a sign that says that road improvements are paid by the 'American Jobs Act'. That literally points a finger at the lack of investment over decades.

Is it THE solution? No, not by a long short. But neither is a pie in the sky dream in which people will do the right thing just because it's the right thing. If you don't believe me, step out your door sometime and live the real world a bit. Or turn on the news. Waiting for your utopian change will take eons unless you're advocating government heavy-handedness to force people in that direction. Decay can be measured in decades.

 

[akatrex]

In a nutshell, the economic difference between China and the U.S. today.


World's Longest High-Speed Rail Line Opens in China

HONG KONG — China began service Wednesday morning on the world’s longest high-speed rail line, covering a distance in eight hours that is about equal to that from New York to Key West, Florida, or from London across Europe to Belgrade.

Bullet trains traveling 300 kilometers an hour, or 186 miles an hour, began regular service between Beijing and Guangzhou, the main metropolis in southeastern China. Older trains still in service on a parallel rail line take 21 hours; Amtrak trains from New York to Miami, a shorter distance, still take nearly 30 hours.

Completion of the Beijing-Guangzhou route is the latest sign that China has resumed rapid construction on one of the world’s largest and most ambitious infrastructure projects, a network of four north-south routes and four east-west routes that span the country.

- - - - - - - - -


Discuss.

Amtrak + U.S. Government = Crappy Service.

NOTE:

Yet as US cities continue to plot out high-speed rail solutions, the breakneck pace at which China has developed its own system has also raised concerns, particularly after a 2011 collision left 40 people dead.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/07/25/1226101/105773-110725-china-rail-accident.jpg

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm skeptical of them being profitable if run by the government. I literally had a Facebook friend today post he's been riding the commuter train into Los Angeles for a year and today was the first day he was asked for his ticket.