On abortion

[dirtwrench]

Somehow I doubt any women make a "casual" choice to abort or not to abort. It just isn't in me ot believe that.

I have said it before and will probably say it again- Until I get pregnant, I do not get to chose what a woman does with or to her own body. If she coses an abortion, I am free to not like it. However it is still not my choice. Making it illegal will not make abortion go away. It will only return it to dark corners with a lot less safety for the woman.

I am whole heartedly in favor of retro-active abortion for the protestors who blow up clinics killing doctors, nurses, and women inside. Anyone carrying an "Abortion is Murder" or similar banner who can't see blowing up the place is murder counts as expendable in IMHO.

 

[Balcor44]

.....

 

[Disgustipated]

Your choice comes prior to getting pregnant. After that you have no right to deny the unborn their right to life. Don't like it, use protection or don't have sex. Avoid the entire debate that way. It's really quite simple yet so many want to be able to run around without responsibility.

What if the willing couple is on the BC pill AND uses a condem AND a diaphragm AND a bunch of other shit that is supposed to prevent unwanted pregnancies?

 

[badbabysitter]

Your choice comes prior to getting pregnant. After that you have no right to deny the unborn their right to life. Don't like it, use protection or don't have sex. Avoid the entire debate that way. It's really quite simple yet so many want to be able to run around without responsibility.

No form of birth control is 100% effective and it still doesnt change that it's her body and not yours

Her choice, her responsibility


If you think its an easy choice...then there simply is no help for you

 

[Disgustipated]

No form of birth control is 100% effective and it still doesnt change that it's her body and not yours

Her choice, her responsibility


If you think its an easy choice...then there simply is no help for you

Right on, bro!

 

[Balcor44]

.....

 

[Disgustipated]

Doesn't matter, murder is murder. Adoption is always an option. Had your mother chose to abort a week into pregnancy, you wouldn't be here to have this conversation. Life begins at conception and that unborn child has as many rights as the woman carrying him/her, including the right to life.

Make all the crazy claims or whacked out scenarios you want, the right to life trumps every one of them.

So if your daughter was raped by a mentally retarded midget with a family history of rape, murder, sociopathy and molestation ... you would be opposed to her legal right to not bring that baby to term?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

So if your daughter was raped by a mentally retarded midget with a family history of rape, murder, sociopathy and molestation ... you would be opposed to her legal right to not bring that baby to term?

Hello, Balcor44? You still there, Balc ol' buddy?

Hello?

Hello?

 

[fair_warning]

Why is it when the abortion issue comes round for its annual Lit flogging, it's men who are the most strident opponents?

All this bullshit would be over if men were made to be responsible for every one of those little spermy things that they are so willingly to share with us women.....

 

[sigh]

Another political season, another round of the discussions regarding abortion.

Abortion is murder, there is no other word that fits. You may call it the elimination of an 'nonviable tissue mass', or any other phrase you want, but it's still murder.

Why?

Human life begins at conception because that is the only place it can start. From the fertilization of the egg you are dealing with an individual human being. As far as being nonviable, the same can be said of any child up to a certain, and variable, age. Take a toddler to the wilderness, abandon them, and they exhibit all of the traits of a nonviable tissue mass. They are going to die and the individual(s) that dropped them off are going to be charged with murder. That being the case why not allow postpartum abortions as well? The same logic applies.

I happen to be pro-choice, at least during the first trimester. Not because I believe that abortion isn't murder, but merely because that women have been practicing abortion and birth control throughout recorded history and I can see no value to society by criminalizing a 3000 year old tradition.

That being said, you women can vote your uterus or you can vote for the best for the nation. And if you think your uterus is what the future of the nation hinges on.......God help us all.

Ishmael

Again, Ish? Really?

Been there, done that, do NOT want to do it again. Truth be told, it gets tiresome whooping your ass over and over and over again.

 

[sigh]

delete

 

[sigh]

Again, Ish? Really?

Been there, done that, do NOT want to do it again. Truth be told, it gets tiresome whooping your ass over and over and over again.

Did I say whooping? Must be this darn cough.

 

[Devil'sChild]

If we just had a law that if your IQ was to low then you couldn't breed then we could eliminate half the issue right away. Not a fool proof method to be sure but a step in the right direction.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I'll try to cover all your points here, maybe.

Legal is merely what passes for fashion during any given period. Hitler's killing of millions was all quite legal. As was Stalin's and Mao's killing of their citizens. And that's just to address some more recent history. Most of the most morally abominable events that took place throughout history were all done quite legally. So using a 'legal' definition of 'murder' has no sway on me at all. You might as well go back to 1859 and be arguing that slavery is legal.

Neither the constitution, nor the courts, should be polluted with matters of sex or marriage. That is a matter for the various states to decide.

My own opinion re. gay marriage is well known and of long standing on this board, don't presume that you can read my mind when a little research will allow you to read my exact words.

Ishmael

I said that too! Just dumber is all..

You live in a republic that has democratic institutions, not a dictatorship ruled by a corrupt elite.

Your claim that Hitler's killing of millions was 'legal' is dubious. While there were laws enacted to strip Jews and others of German citizenship, to send people to concentration camps and forced labour where they died, there was no law passed to condemn them to death.

The current law in the US allows abortion. If the law is to be changed, it requires legislation. At present, any political party suggesting changing the law on abortion in the US would probably lose an election despite your arguments.

Sorry. All forms of government and law are equally valid as are their outcomes. That is objective. A subjective outlook decides which ones are good and therefore "legal."

Hitler was a product of the German Social State and he was as legitimate as any American President, Vladimir Putin or Bashir Assad. (The Ominous Parallels)

If we look to the example of the vaunted UN, dictators, their laws and there representatives are all just as valid as any "democracy."

No to your last contention. We are winning the argument by degree and State's Rights versus the government is gaining momentum as we saw in 2010 and in the Tea Party so undoing penumbra's on the part of the Federal Government which is now going so far as to put murder ahead of religious freedom garners a second look as more and more people agree, this needs to be a rare event lest we be smeared by history as Carthaginian baby-killers...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Why is it when the abortion issue comes round for its annual Lit flogging, it's men who are the most strident opponents?

All this bullshit would be over if men were made to be responsible for every one of those little spermy things that they are so willingly to share with us women.....

Also the most strident proponents.

 

[RobDownSouth]

False Equivalency again from teh Chief

Also the most strident proponents.

Your right wing Glibertarian buddies assassinate abortion doctors and blow up abortion clinics.

What is the equivalent behavior for the "strident proponents"? Hmmm?

Besides hurting your tender feelings....

 

[RobDownSouth]

Hitler was a product of the German Social State and he was as legitimate as any American President, Vladimir Putin or Bashir Assad.

Oh, look, it's AJ's Daily Hitler Analogy!

Derp Derp Derp!

 

[oggbashan]

Hitler was a product of the German Social State and he was as legitimate as any American President, Vladimir Putin or Bashir Assad.

Your knowledge of history is as ill-informed as your logic.

 

[warrior queen]

Why is it when the abortion issue comes round for its annual Lit flogging, it's men who are the most strident opponents?

All this bullshit would be over if men were made to be responsible for every one of those little spermy things that they are so willingly to share with us women.....

*sigh*
From the woman who is waiting for her incredibly late child support check.... AGAIN


It's one thing to be all happyhappyjoyjoy at being a dad, but quite another 15 years later (when he's had an affair that effectively ended the relationship) and find he still has to contribute to supporting that one little sperm that found the mark.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Your knowledge of history is as ill-informed as your logic.

I'm sorry. He was elected. He took over power. He hosted the Olympics and until he went to war, he would have been as welcome into the League of Nations/UN as the American President or the English Prime Minister. In fact, the Kennedy's loved the guy.

He and his party made the laws and they were as legitimate as ours.

Like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus...

Maybe you think he was WRONG,

You can think him EVIL,

But that has nothing to do with LEGITIMATE!

He began simply, abortion and compassionate euthanasia just like GB Shaw and the Fabians and M. Sanger and the Progressives...

 

[GiggLeGasm]

my body.. my body.. my body..
I get that. He doesn't legally have to sign for you to get an abortion; but why wouldn't you value his opinion? Not every abortion is a result of some horrific trauma or drunken binge. Some women actually choose abortion following an intelligent discussion with a partner.

If he's married and getting a vasectomy, many docs will ask to speak to the wife. It's still his body/his choice.

To suggest that men don't have a say, in my opinion (heaven forbid I don't add that), allows a dark cloud to form over the argument and prevents us from seeing it as a reasonable medical procedure.

 

[kbate]

Your knowledge of history is as ill-informed as your logic.

All roads lead to Hitler.

 

[about_average]

If it were 1859, I would argue that slavery was legal in the US. Look, I'll even do it right now: in 1859, slavery was legal in the US.

Only in some states and territories. So in 1972 abortion was only murder in some states.

 

[about_average]

Would Diebold machines make that easier or harder?

They would certainly make it not matter.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Only in some states and territories. So in 1972 abortion was only murder in some states.

Dred Scott.