Operations Fast & Furious

[Very_Bad_Man]

wow

This thread is a real meeting of the minds

*gigglesnort*

 

[unregistered]

 

[mercury14]

There'd be two sides of the story if Obama wasn't obstructing the investigation.

There have always been two sides. And there's no investigation to obstruct, merely an inquiry.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They gave nothing. The cartel members bought the guns. They would have bought guns with or without the US government.

What about the incompetence of the whole thing and the cover-up from the administration that promised us the highest degree of transparency...


But, I'll bet'cha that if the guns HAD been purchased illegally, without government help, the administration would have moved heaven and earth to uncover every detail, punish every one involved and bring justice for the family of Agent Terry.

 

[RobDownSouth]

What about the incompetence of the whole thing and the cover-up from the administration that promised us the highest degree of transparency...


But, I'll bet'cha that if the guns HAD been purchased illegally, without government help, the administration would have moved heaven and earth to uncover every detail, punish every one involved and bring justice for the family of Agent Terry.

^^^logical fallacy of teh unknowable future.

 

[MeeMie]

According to the loonies, the "general" public doesn't care about this matter... they got their loonie talking points from the liberal roundup etc.

The better half of the public believes differently.



How outraged do you think people were when they learned Eric Holder disarmed Brian Terry while arming his killers?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iybVEW4COxo/T_t_Yi1bEQI/AAAAAAAAy-I/lsAs4aFvJcQ/s400/120709-beanbags.jpg

US Border Agent Brian Terry was shooting beanbags at cartel members before they shot him dead with assault rifles.


For the first time the Obama Administration today admitted that Brian Terry and fellow border agents were firing beanbags and not bullets during their shootout with armed cartel members.

 

[RobDownSouth]

*Yawn* Day 236 - still no outrage from teh general public. MeeMie's therapist considers upping his meds.

 

[koalabear]

GOP prepares to file lawsuit against Holder

"We'll be filing a civil case during the break," Issa told NBC, "We will expect a day in court before a federal judge, which we have a 100 percent chance that the judge will hold that these documents should be delivered."

"We're seeking a remedy and the remedy is an order to compel," Issa said. "Nixon didn't respond to Congress, he responded to federal judges, ultimately the Supreme Court, ordering that he had no such privilege to cover up the tapes. And these are no different than the Nixon tapes, we're asking for documents related to a cover up of lying to Congress."

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...-prepares-to-file-lawsuit-against-holder?lite

 

[RobDownSouth]

*Yawn* Day 238 - still no outrage from teh general public. When, oh when, will it all start?

 

[koalabear]

Some morons do not think Senators represent people.

 

[MeeMie]

The rest of the article

GOP prepares to file lawsuit against Holder

House Republicans will file a civil suit against Attorney General Eric Holder during the August recess, House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., has told NBC News.

House Republicans will file suit in an effort to compel Holder to release documents associated with the failed "Fast and Furious" gun-walking operation.


"We'll be filing a civil case during the break," Issa told NBC, "We will expect a day in court before a federal judge, which we have a 100 percent chance that the judge will hold that these documents should be delivered."


During negotiations between House Republicans and Holder in June, the White House invoked executive privilege on the documents Issa had requested for his investigation. Issa says that a federal judge should find that executive privilege does not apply to the documents he is requesting.

"The idea that you would withhold based on some executive privilege the documents related to a cover up of a crime is absurd, but that's the claim that the attorney general is hiding behind," Issa said.

The House voted on June 28th, 255-67, to hold Holder in contempt of Congress for not turning over documents related to the Fast and Furious operation. During that vote, the vast majority of Democrats walked off the floor of the House in protest of a measure they saw as a political witch hunt.

Soon after the House found Holder in contempt of Congress, the Justice Department penned a letter to House Republicans saying it would not be pursuing the case, stating that "the attorney general's response to the subpoena issued by the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform does not constitute a crime." The DOJ cited the White House invoking executive privilege as a primary reason for not proceeding.

The DOJ's response has left Republicans with few options, according to Issa, who compared the current situation with congressional attempts to retrieve the Nixon tapes during their investigation into the Watergate scandal in the 1970s.

"We're seeking a remedy and the remedy is an order to compel," Issa said. "Nixon didn't respond to Congress, he responded to federal judges, ultimately the Supreme Court, ordering that he had no such privilege to cover up the tapes. And these are no different than the Nixon tapes, we're asking for documents related to a cover up of lying to Congress."

 

[koalabear]

Lawmakers: 'Ominous' video a warning to ATF whistle-blowers after 'Furious'

The head of ATF recently warned employees that they will face "consequences" if they don't "respect the chain of command," in what Republican lawmakers are decrying as an "ominous message" meant to frighten would-be whistle-blowers in the wake of the Operation Fast and Furious scandal.

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa., and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., fired off a letter Wednesday to Acting Director B. Todd Jones saying the message "could be interpreted as a threat" and urging him to clarify.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...f-whistleblowers-after-furious/#ixzz234YuiVov

 

[koalabear]

http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/07/19/b1ericholder_s640x648.jpg?80ebd3d444f9fa3d020c7dff222794c6afaf8e2a

 

[coachdb18]

Eric Holder is as guilty of sending unlawful orders to his personnel as was Lt William Calley at My Lai... and in both cases, they went rogue, people died, and they tried to use their authority to issue 'lawful orders' as their excuse to cover up their crimes. There is nothing 'lawful' about uisng your position to murder people.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4934050506408477&id=6e5d0ec1730412a01d1b48926c0aec00

 

[koalabear]

BURTON: Fast and Furious stonewalling looks like guilt
Congress will persist until truth is uncovered

The Fast and Furious investigation has reached its 17th month, and it’s obvious it has taken on a life of its own. Stonewalling and misdirection from the executive branch in response to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee’s investigation not only raise suspicions and make a mockery of the idea of due process but also minimize the death of a patriot who served his country valiantly.

I wish I could say the actions of Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., his Justice Department and the president were unprecedented, but history proves otherwise. In 1998, while serving as chairman of the House oversight committee, I held a vote recommending contempt for then-Attorney General Janet Reno for her failure to comply with a subpoena issued in connection with the committee’s investigation into campaign finance law violations. Although the committee voted to hold Ms. Reno in contempt, a resolution of contempt of Congress was never voted on by the full House of Representatives. Despite the different outcomes, the parallels between then and now are very similar. In both instances, the accused misled the committee and feigned ignorance throughout the entire investigation. These are not actions commonly attributed to persons with nothing to hide.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/19/fast-and-furious-stonewalling-looks-like-guilt/

 

[eyer]

High-Ranking Mexican Drug Cartel Member Makes Explosive Allegation...

...‘Fast and Furious’ Is Not What You Think It Is

A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as “Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is.

It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels.

The explosive allegations are being made by Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, known as the Sinaloa Cartel’s “logistics coordinator.” He was extradited to the Chicago last year to face federal drug charges.

Zambada-Niebla claims that under a “divide and conquer” strategy, the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa Cartel through Operation Fast and Furious in exchange for information that allowed the DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies to take down rival drug cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 — during both Fast and Furious and Bush-era gunrunning operations — as long as the intel kept coming.

- full story here:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hig...fast-and-furious-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/

And if you actually think this is outlandish...

...grab a copy and read Betrayal by Robert Fitzpatrick with Jon Land; in it you'll discover the FBI running basically the same kind of operation with James "Whitey" Bulger and his "cartel" as Bulger continued to kill others and deepen his criminal businesses.

http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews...nd-the-fbi-agent-who-fought-to-bring-him-down

 

[phrodeau]

With eyer on your side, how could you possibly be wrong?

 

[MeeMie]

GOP sues to force Obama, Holder compliance on Fast and Furious


Executive privilege at issue


A civil lawsuit filed Monday by House Republicans asks a federal court to enforce a congressional subpoena of Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in his refusal to turn over documents sought in an investigation by a House committee into the failed Fast and Furious gunrunning operation.



House Speaker John A. Boehner said in a statement the lawsuit seeks to overturn the Obama administration's "frivolous executives privilege claims," forcing the Justice Department to make public documents the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee claims could show who at the department was aware of the botched investigation and what they did about it.

Mr. Boehner said President Obama and his team were ignoring an Oct. 11 congressional subpoena — something the courts have long recognized as valid — and that lawmakers were left with no choice but to ask the U.S. District Court in Washington to referee.

"By stonewalling Congress and ignoring a contempt order, the Justice Department has left the House no choice but to take legal action so we can get to the bottom of the Fast and Furious operation that cost border Agent Brian Terry his life," Mr. Boehner said.

"After providing — then retracting — inaccurate information to Congress, Attorney General Holder has gone to extraordinary lengths to block access to subpoenaed documents and deny the efforts of the Terry family to get the truth," he said.

"The White House has been complicit in this effort to hide the truth by making executive privilege claims that have no merit, which is why today's action is necessary," the Ohio Republican said, adding that a bipartisan vote by the House to hold Mr. Holder in contempt "made clear that the Obama administration owes the Terry family and the American people the truth."

He said the House would continue to hold the administration accountable until it provides the documents and answers the questions sought by the committee "to ensure that a tragedy like this never happens again."



The House voted a contempt of Congress citation against Mr. Holder on June 28 in a 255-67 vote for his refusal to turn over subpoenaed documents in the Fast and Furious investigation.

The committee inquiry began in December 2010 after the death of Terry. Two AK-47 semiautomatic weapons purchased by straw buyers as part of Fast and Furious were found at the site of the Terry killing.

More than 2,000 weapons were purchased from Arizona gun shops during the lengthy operation, about 1,000 of which remain unaccounted for. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) agents were told to stand down instead of interdicting the weapons. The Fast and Furious operation was supposed to track the guns being sold to Mexican cartels to identify the actual buyers, but the ATF lost track of the weapons.

The White House, which had first said it would try to work out a way to release the documents but that they didn't show anything incriminating, later reversed course and claimed executive privilege, thus preventing the Justice Department from releasing the records.

Republicans on Capitol Hill want to know who approved the ATF operation and have rejected Obama administration assurances that it was lower-level staffers. Released emails and documents paint a complex picture, showing some details either were or should have been noticed by high-level Justice Department officials.

Mr. Holder has disputed those characterizations — though he has already had to retract an official communication to Congress that had false information about the operation itself, and has also officially withdrawn part of his own testimony that seemed to suggest one of his predecessors under President George W. Bush had known of a similar operation.

Among other things, the lawsuit seeks documents showing why the Justice Department took 10 months to retract a Feb. 4, 2011, statement that contained false denials of the investigative tactics used in Fast and Furious. It also notes that minutes before the House committee convened a business meeting to consider the Holder contempt citation, Mr. Obama invoked an eleventh-hour assertion of executive privilege over the documents. The lawsuit asks the federal court to rule Mr. Obama's assertion of executive privilege invalid and to compel Mr. Holder to produce documents.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/13/gop-sues-force-obama-compliance-fast-and-furious/?page=1

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We're supposed to be hating on Romney for being a felon...

 

[miles]

This is the biggest presidential scandal of the new millennium while the media is playing Sgt. Schultz on us.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

In his second term, they'll have "more flexibility."


Right now they're busy rooting out Romney and Ryan's "RACISM..."

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

http://nerdapproved.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/beavis-butthead-real-life-2.jpg?cb5e28

Welcome Back to CNN!

 

[mercury14]

This is the biggest presidential scandal of the new millennium while the media is playing Sgt. Schultz on us.

Except it's not presidential. And not many people care.

 

[unregistered]