Mr/Mrs Taxpayer would pay 4 Romney's average 10% Mormon church tithing if elected

[RoryN]

It's mandatory, and yes, Romney always pays it.

That'll help buy a lot of magic underwear!

http://www.salamandersociety.com/temple/garments/mormon_garment_female_front_full.jpg

http://thechurchofchrismartin.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/a_mormon-temple-garments.jpg

http://worldfullofidiots.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Mormon-underwear.jpg

 

[Bert Notorius]

At least he's not a G/god damn Methodist.

 

[RoryN]

Mormon church earns $7 billion a year from tithing, analysis indicates

By Peter Henderson
Reuters

SAN FRANCISCO -- If the Mormon church were a business, wealthy adherents like Mitt Romney would count as its dominant revenue stream.

Its investment strategy would be viewed as risk-averse.

It would also likely attract corporate gadflies protesting a lack of transparency. They would call for less spending on real estate and more on charitable causes to improve membership growth -- the Mormons' return on investment.

Those are a few of the conclusions that can be drawn from an analysis of the church's finances by Reuters and University of Tampa sociologist Ryan Cragun.

Relying heavily on church records in countries that require far more disclosure than the United States, Cragun and Reuters estimate that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints brings in some $7 billion annually in tithes and other donations.

It owns about $35 billion worth of temples and meeting houses around the world, and controls farms, ranches, shopping malls and other commercial ventures worth many billions more.

The church claims 14 million members around the world, more than half outside the United States. All are supposed to tithe, or give 10 percent, of their income, which Mormons frequently interpret as pre-tax earnings. But only about 40 percent of Mormons counted by the church actually attend weekly services in the United States and Canada, and in many countries, including Mexico and Brazil, only a quarter of nominal members are active, according to Cumorah, an independent research group headed by a devoted, active Mormon.

These active members are most likely to tithe, and the result is that from a financial standpoint at least, the church remains largely a venture of active American members, said Cragun, who adds that U.S. Mormon men tend to be wealthier than the average U.S. male.

"Most of the revenue of the religion is from the U.S., and a large percentage comes from an elite cadre of wealthy donors, like Mitt Romney," said Cragun. "(It) is a religion that appeals to economically successful men by rewarding their financial acuity with respect and positions of prestige within the religion."

The church is full of successful businessmen, including chemical billionaire Jon Huntsman Sr., the father of the former presidential candidate, J.W. "Bill" Marriott Jr. and his hotel-owning family, and even entertainer Donny Osmond.

Romney, the Republican presidential candidate, gave $4.1 million to the church over the past two years (amounting to 9.7 percent of his gross adjusted income, according to the two years' worth of tax returns he has released). He would tithe on his IRA, valued at as much as $102 million, only when he withdraws from it and pays taxes.

Crunching the numbers

Several countries around the world require religious groups and charities to file financial reports, including Canada. The country has only 185,000 Mormon members but a wealth of statistics on them. Taking total reported Canadian donations and dividing by the estimated number of active Mormons and family financial data from the World Bank indicates that active Canadian Mormons give slightly less than 8 percent of their income to the church.

Assuming that active U.S. Mormons give at a similar rate and adjusting for higher U.S. income, total U.S. tithing would amount to more than $6 billion, or about $6.5 billion annually between the United States and Canada.

Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand and the United Kingdom, which also require financial disclosures, all have sharply lower donation rates than Canada. Based on data from those countries, tithing outside the United States and Canada totals several hundred million dollars, taking global total donations to about $7 billion.

Canada also requires the church to disclose the value of its assets and spending. Using those figures as a basis suggests the total value of church buildings, including temples and meeting houses, would be about $35 billion globally.

Church spokesman Michael Purdy declined to comment specifically on the estimates but said that the church was different from a corporation.

"Other projections are speculative and do not reflect an understanding of how the church uses its income to bless the lives of people," he added, saying the church was financed primarily from member tithing and offerings.

Focus on business and buildings

Concerned or disgruntled current and former Mormons complain that the church spends too much on real estate and for-profit ventures, neglecting charity work.

The Mormon church has no hospitals and only a handful of primary schools. Its university system is limited to widely respected Brigham Young, which has campuses in Utah, Idaho and Hawaii, and LDS Business College. Seminaries and institutes for high school students and single adults offer religious studies for hundreds of thousands.

It counts more than 55,000 in its missionary forces, primarily youths focused on converting new members but also seniors who volunteer for its nonprofits, such as the Polynesian Cultural Center, which bills itself as Hawaii's No. 1 tourist attraction, and for-profit businesses owned by the church.

The church has plowed resources into a multi-billion-dollar global network of for-profit enterprises: it is the largest rancher in the United States, a church official told Nebraska's Lincoln Journal Star in 2004, with other ranches and farms in Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Australia and Great Britain, according to financial documents reviewed by Reuters.

Ranching and farm industry sources say they are well-run operations.

It also has a small media empire, an investment fund, and is developing a mall across from its Salt Lake City headquarters, which it calls an attempt to help revitalize the city rather than to make money. These enterprises are also part of a vast nest egg for tough times. The church expects wars and natural disasters before Christ returns to Earth in the Second Coming, and members are encouraged to prepare by laying in stores of food. Farms and ranches are part of the church's own preparation.

"The church teaches its members to live within their means and put a little money aside for life's unexpected events. As a church, we live by the same principle," Purdy said. The rainy-day fund and operating budget rarely mix, officials say.

Cost-cutting is a top priority, church documents show. It has even laid off janitors and called on members to clean temples and meeting houses, but the buildout of temples continues, including one under construction in Rome.

Those temples take a lot of money to operate, Purdy points out, and many of the grand church buildings are short on congregants, says David Stewart, a physician who leads the research group Cumorah.

"I have been to beautiful church buildings in Hungary and Ukraine, and Latvia and other places, and there are these huge buildings and 35 people there, and you say, how can this work financially? The math - it just doesn't work."

In contrast, the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which had about 17 million members a year ago, appears to be getting a better return on investment: It builds smaller meeting houses and lots of schools and hospitals, and its numbers are swelling faster than the Mormons', said Stewart. The Adventists claim a million new members join annually, compared with every three years or so for the Mormons.

"The Seventh-day Adventists clearly have a much more expansive humanitarian project in terms of building hospitals and medical schools and schools and universities and long-term developmental infrastructure around the world," said Stewart. "It's paid off for them."

The Mormon church, meanwhile, appears to be decreasing transparency and member control of donations. New tithing slips give fewer donation options and come with an expanded disclaimer saying the church has sole discretion over spending, even though it will make "reasonable efforts" to follow donors' wishes.

"Hey, where's the slot of 'shopping malls'?" a poster said of the new slips on exmormonforums.com, one of several dissident sites.

Many faithful have no such issues. On chat boards and in private conversations, they emphasize that volunteering for the church and giving to it are worthy deeds in and of themselves.

"The funds are used to build and maintain temples and meeting houses, as well as take care of the many expenses associated with helping the work of the Gospel of Jesus Christ roll forth. I love to pay tithing," Carl Ames said on one church site.

Purdy did offer a list of spending priorities: building houses of worship, supporting Brigham Young University and a seminary system, operating nearly 140 temples and the world's largest genealogy research program, and humanitarian aid for both members and non-members.

Since 1985 the church has spent a total of $1.4 billion on relief for disasters such as Japan's earthquake and Ethiopian famine, and it operates 129 "bishops' storehouses" with food and household items for the needy.

Romney himself focuses on the act of giving, not the result. As he told Fox News Sunday, "Hopefully, as people look at various individuals running for president, they'd be pleased with someone who made a promise to God and kept that promise."

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...n-a-year-from-tithing-analysis-indicates?lite

 

[doubleover]

Lets see, the Mormons or Jeremiah Wright. Hmmmm

 

[Image]

It never ceases to amuse me that there are that many stupid people in the world...

 

[RoryN]

Lets see, the Mormons or Jeremiah Wright. Hmmmm

Jeremiah Wright is racist against white people.

Mormon scripture is racist against black people.

So, it's a tie in that regard.

How much of Wright's salary are you paying now?

 

[doubleover]

I hope none.

 

[RoryN]

I hope none.

Glad I could educate you.

 

[KRCummings]

It never ceases to amuse me that there are that many stupid people in the world...

Says the Pagan.

 

[doubleover]

Glad I could educate you.

How much are you giving to the Mormons?

 

[RoryN]

How much are you giving to the Mormons?

Nothing.

 

[doubleover]

Nothing.

So I guess its a tie.

 

[KRCummings]

Curious why only Romneys tithes matter.

 

[RoryN]

So I guess its a tie.

I already said that.

Curious why only Romneys tithes matter.

Because only Romney's are mandatory. You don't get to stay a Mormon without `em.

OP.

 

[KRCummings]

Interestingly enough, the Mormons started talking to me about the Rapture in a manner that reminded me of Witnesses. At first I thought I had made a mistake about who they were but no, they were Mormons. They were just leaving out the whole Jesus is coming back in America thing. I mean I suppose He might come back in America. In a way that would make sense but not in Toads Hollow or wherever the fuck they say it will happen.
Overall I'll take the Mormons over Witnesses. More interesting. Witnesses bore the piss out of me. 144,000 my ass.

 

[KRCummings]

I already said that.



Because only Romney's are mandatory. You don't get to stay a Mormon without `em.

OP.

So it's ok if a President tithes tax dollars voluntarily?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Lets see, the Mormons or Jeremiah Wright. Hmmmm

Jeremiah Wright is racist against white people.

Mormon scripture is racist against black people.

Speaking of racist speaking...

Less chance of getting shot by 40,000 dollar nigs than free nigs.

Moosefuck births are up because they want to rule the world.

Nigger birth rates are up because its an increase in income
babies = check
plus they don't have anything else to do.

Anchor babies are up to get the freebies only the blacks used to have.

Wouldn't wanna be sitting down in the church when you're giving out sermons, eh, Doublehangover?

http://static2.flaker.pl/static/images/flaker/user_submitted/f_3559_1285775894_0_755.jpeg

 

[RoryN]

Speaking of racist speaking...

Wouldn't wanna be sitting down in the church when you're giving out sermons, eh, Doublehangover?

Yup. I've been fucking with him ever since he first responded to me.

 

[blobfish]

Seems to me that old Mitthead could do whatever he wants with his salary.

 

[RoryN]

Seems to me that old Mitthead could do whatever he wants with our money if he's elected.

FYP..

 

[blobfish]

FYP..

Taxpayer money pays for the salary of the president, and any federal employee. Doubtless, some of them are Mormons.

 

[cum2ut]

It's mandatory, and yes, Romney always pays it.

That'll help buy a lot of magic underwear!

http://www.salamandersociety.com/temple/garments/mormon_garment_female_front_full.jpg

http://thechurchofchrismartin.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/a_mormon-temple-garments.jpg

http://worldfullofidiots.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Mormon-underwear.jpg

I'm not quite sure what religion all of this is referring to. As long as I've been a member, tithing has never been mandatory. We don't pass around collection plates...there's no shakedown as you come in the door. I haven't paid mine in years, yet I'm still welcome everytime I choose to attend. Everyone I know who wears garments (which are most decidedly not "magic" as everyone here is fond of saying!), didn't get them free....you have to buy them. Mitt Romney is no higher in the church than I am...you don't "buy" your way in. None of the church leaders get a salary from the church. I was actually in Bill Marriot's ward at one time, & he wasnt treated any differently than any other member. In fact, the bishop at the time, probably made in a year, what the Marriots make in a week. Its not like the author of your article insinuates...that the people with money are regarded higher than those who don't have any. I'm also not sure what the author is talking about regarding church aid. Anytime my family has needed help, they've received it. I can't count how many cans of church food have circulated through our pantry growing up, but we always had to pay it back, either through money, or working for the church. Many a weekend was spent cleaning the church, or working at the church store. But we always had enough for our family, & didn't have to depend on the state. People who complain, are probably the ones who expected to just get everything without doing anything in return. I have friends who wouldn't have been able to go on missions, or even to college if it werent for tithings.

 

[deehere]

What an ass you are Rory

What Mr. Romney does with the income he would earn as President after taxes is none of our damned business. If he chooses to be charitable according to the dictates of his own conscience and set of values, then that is his right and our own. Us scrutinizing and commenting on your own spending choices would piss you off.