Questions from a reluctant and unwilling sub

reluctantwife

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Jul 26, 2012
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Warmest greetings to all of you,

I hope someone can offer some advice and/or perspective for me. I really have no idea where else to go with these questions. I could talk to a friend, but I don't think they would appreciate the complexity of this lifestyle; a councilor will probably tell me this is an abusive relationship. I figured talking to the people who dabble in this lifestyle would be the best place to go for honest conversation. So here goes...

My husband told me he was into BDSM relatively early in our relationship. Being completely niave, I had no idea what to think and really just expected it was a passing fantasy; that it would, in time, just go away. I was wrong. He wants the entire lifestyle from me. I have tried to give him what he wants, but I have always always always struggled with it. I even tried for a couple of months to be his submissive in every way, but found zero enjoyment out of it and really struggled through this period.

When we argue sex is almost always at the root of it and I believe at the base of the problems in our relationship: I am not giving him what he wants, leaving him unsatisfied and I struggle with the notion of giving it to him. I feel immense pressure to be this submissive wife, even though of late he has tried to give me space. I am always conscious of the kind of sex he would rather be having, which leaves me little desire for any kind of sex. Throughout our relationship he has tried manipulating the kind of sex he wants from me in many ways, and no matter how hard I try to open myself to BDSM, I am wholly uncomfortable with it. Often he tries to get me to comply by telling me he provides a wonderful life for me (few complaints here) by working hard to support our family; I should give him what he wants because he does all these things for me. I feel coerced and I feel inadequate because I cannot fulfill his desires.

The question I pose to you out there is: what is reasonable for him to expect of me? What is a reluctant wife such as me to do? He tells me that I am just unwilling to do anything for him because I am uncomfortable with it, but it really goes deeper than that. I understand that degradation is the name of the game and that it is supposed to be uncomfortable, but it really effects me to the core; depresses me and impacts my life outside of the bedroom.

Thank you.
 
What you MIGHT have here is a case where two people's needs are not going to line up. Not merely preferences, but a hardwired need. What the divorce courts call "incompatibility."

I strongly suggest that you find an Al-Anon group, because your problem is very similar to those of partners of alcoholics and other addicts. (for the record, I detest the current trend of calling hardwired sexual people "sex addicts", but it's true that the relational problems can be so close as to make no difference)

If worst comes to worst, can you give him permission to find another sexual partner? Or, can you agree to a seperation?
 
First of all, I am the worst at addressing married people. I have never been, most likely never will be married (although there was one guy...) anyway, I hear all too often "I felt I had to marry" or "we were together so long, it was just the next step" seems people put more thought into buying a washing machine.
That being said... Here are my harsh words.

" I understand that degradation is the name of the game and that it is supposed to be uncomfortable, but it really effects me to the core; depresses me and impacts my life outside of the bed"
NO IT'S NOT!
some people enjoy humiliation and degradation, others (like me) hell NO!

I believe sex and intimacy are a huge priority in a relationship. If two don't match up here, there WILL be problems. However, it's not your job to force yourself to do things you hate. Do you want to live that way? I always have thought sex should be discussed honestly and openly waaaaaay before marriage!
"if you won't, someone else will" sorry but it's true. Get ready for him to find it elsewhere, maybe you too. Wouldn't you love the romantic sex life you desire?
I think a sit down talk and separation then probably divorce will be the easiest route. Then you can both find what you need.
Sorry for the harsh words but it's not the first time I've said these things on this board.
 
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What you want is important. It's entirely possible that you agreed to something that you can't sustain and that's tragic. But...I don't think you should have to pay for that for the rest of your life, no matter the original intention. You wanted to make him happy and thought you would. You didn't. So now you decide what's real and where to go from here.

Whatever the solution is, and I don't know what that is (mine was divorce) you need to make your own happiness and truth also a priority and realize that if you're both unhappy, you'd serve both of you best by letting you seek your own bliss without condemnation.

In the end divorce worked out for me and I found someone else (didn't think I would) who was made happy by the same things that made me happy and that's worked out for everyone (including my ex-husbands, who were also able to move on and find other options)

Not easy, not pretty, but it's real.
 
not into BDSM

Wife, maybe you could divert his sexual tension. Other activities like stripping you or playing in the shower. Take the lead instead of following.

You're here so you have some notion of sex. Blow him more often. Sleep naked. Let him see you undressing. I didn't notice if you thought of yourself as attractive or not.
 
Not that it really matters but what does "early in our relationship" mean? The way you worded it, it leaves the impression that maybe you really didn't even find out about this until after you were married. Also, i don't see anywhere in your post where you say that you actually agreed to this, although you did say, "I have tried to give him what he wants".

"What is reasonable for him to expect of me"? Answer: A person can only reasonably expect from their spouses what the spouses are willing to give. Period. If your sex lives don't match up, they don't match up. Sometimes there is only a fine line between a "Dom" and an "Abuser" but most of my definition is that a Dom has a willing Sub whereas an Abuser forces someone to do something that they really don't want to do. I don't know the other circumstances of your marriage but he is not going to change or be "counseled" regarding this so you really need to strongly consider divorce. He needs to find what he wants and you need to be happy to. It is your human right to be happy and not be "abused" by demanding you to be something you really don't want to be.
 
Warmest greetings to all of you,

I hope someone can offer some advice and/or perspective for me. I really have no idea where else to go with these questions. I could talk to a friend, but I don't think they would appreciate the complexity of this lifestyle; a councilor will probably tell me this is an abusive relationship. I figured talking to the people who dabble in this lifestyle would be the best place to go for honest conversation. So here goes...

My husband told me he was into BDSM relatively early in our relationship. Being completely niave, I had no idea what to think and really just expected it was a passing fantasy; that it would, in time, just go away. I was wrong. He wants the entire lifestyle from me. I have tried to give him what he wants, but I have always always always struggled with it. I even tried for a couple of months to be his submissive in every way, but found zero enjoyment out of it and really struggled through this period.

When we argue sex is almost always at the root of it and I believe at the base of the problems in our relationship: I am not giving him what he wants, leaving him unsatisfied and I struggle with the notion of giving it to him. I feel immense pressure to be this submissive wife, even though of late he has tried to give me space. I am always conscious of the kind of sex he would rather be having, which leaves me little desire for any kind of sex. Throughout our relationship he has tried manipulating the kind of sex he wants from me in many ways, and no matter how hard I try to open myself to BDSM, I am wholly uncomfortable with it. Often he tries to get me to comply by telling me he provides a wonderful life for me (few complaints here) by working hard to support our family; I should give him what he wants because he does all these things for me. I feel coerced and I feel inadequate because I cannot fulfill his desires.

The question I pose to you out there is: what is reasonable for him to expect of me? What is a reluctant wife such as me to do? He tells me that I am just unwilling to do anything for him because I am uncomfortable with it, but it really goes deeper than that. I understand that degradation is the name of the game and that it is supposed to be uncomfortable, but it really effects me to the core; depresses me and impacts my life outside of the bedroom.

Thank you.

If this were me - I would give permission to get his control jollies taken care of with a professional submissive who you are permitted to meet and talk to, in a professional dungeon which has a strong no-penetration policy. This need of his isn't going away, but he should be willing to be flexible enough to make it purely what it is and tease it apart from his sex life with you and be able to compartmentalize it and leave it where it is.

I know that's asking a lot, but you said it yourself - this isn't going away. It's woven in to who he is as a person. You don't have to accept it, but you do have to accept it if you accept him. Accepting it doesn't mean providing it.

I could have done that for my vanilla partner, found SM only people to explore with, probably - but he wasn't able to deal with that, even.

If he's not willing to do that, it's on him.

This isn't you. It should not be on you to take care of this need simply because you married him or he works hard (shouldn't everybody work hard?)

You're not wrong because you're you and he's him. You're not inadequate because you can't fulfill his every personal daydream. But if he's going out of his way to make you feel that you are you have some serious issues in the non-sexual arena, and might want to think about being with someone who does that.
 
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Must add, there is a huge difference between being into BDSM in the bedroom and living a total power exchange lifestyle. Your husband should have made his needs/expectations clear. Most people without experience in BDSM would think "ok he's into handcuffs, leather, maybe spanking" and that's it.
 
Sweetheart, obviously you are not a submissive. One thing I noticed you said is "You understand it's supposed to be uncomfortable", but you also admit you don't really understand the lifestyle. No, it's not supposed to be uncomfortable, it's supposed to be something you both enjoy just like any other kind of sex. I agree with the suggestions to allow him a submissive with no strings attached, hell you can even post a craigslist ad laying out just what you want. If you can't do that, then you both need to consider that perhaps your relationship had run it's course. Humans are hardwired to seek out a partner that makes them feel good in all ways, I think that's why so many relationships end-because partners aren't compatible on all levels. You can't change him, he is a Dom at heart(admittedly not a good one if he can't register his sub is suffering as you are and adjust for that, but a Dom none the less).


Warmest greetings to all of you,

I hope someone can offer some advice and/or perspective for me. I really have no idea where else to go with these questions. I could talk to a friend, but I don't think they would appreciate the complexity of this lifestyle; a councilor will probably tell me this is an abusive relationship. I figured talking to the people who dabble in this lifestyle would be the best place to go for honest conversation. So here goes...

My husband told me he was into BDSM relatively early in our relationship. Being completely niave, I had no idea what to think and really just expected it was a passing fantasy; that it would, in time, just go away. I was wrong. He wants the entire lifestyle from me. I have tried to give him what he wants, but I have always always always struggled with it. I even tried for a couple of months to be his submissive in every way, but found zero enjoyment out of it and really struggled through this period.

When we argue sex is almost always at the root of it and I believe at the base of the problems in our relationship: I am not giving him what he wants, leaving him unsatisfied and I struggle with the notion of giving it to him. I feel immense pressure to be this submissive wife, even though of late he has tried to give me space. I am always conscious of the kind of sex he would rather be having, which leaves me little desire for any kind of sex. Throughout our relationship he has tried manipulating the kind of sex he wants from me in many ways, and no matter how hard I try to open myself to BDSM, I am wholly uncomfortable with it. Often he tries to get me to comply by telling me he provides a wonderful life for me (few complaints here) by working hard to support our family; I should give him what he wants because he does all these things for me. I feel coerced and I feel inadequate because I cannot fulfill his desires.

The question I pose to you out there is: what is reasonable for him to expect of me? What is a reluctant wife such as me to do? He tells me that I am just unwilling to do anything for him because I am uncomfortable with it, but it really goes deeper than that. I understand that degradation is the name of the game and that it is supposed to be uncomfortable, but it really effects me to the core; depresses me and impacts my life outside of the bedroom.

Thank you.
 
The question I pose to you out there is: what is reasonable for him to expect of me? What is a reluctant wife such as me to do? He tells me that I am just unwilling to do anything for him because I am uncomfortable with it, but it really goes deeper than that. I understand that degradation is the name of the game and that it is supposed to be uncomfortable, but it really effects me to the core; depresses me and impacts my life outside of the bedroom.

I would echo what others have said - no matter if it's because of a partner's desire for particular sexual fulfillment, no relationship should result in either partner being in pain or depressed. Marriage should make you both better...happier. At least that's my experience.

Submission is something that needs to be taken on as a free choice, not through coercion or guilt or duty. Trying to be someone you're not...it's pretty deadly, and I don't recommend it.

I can understand that submission can be very difficult for some due to emotional/psychological history, even if it's in their nature to be submissive. But even in those circumstances it is more a dark shadow that crops up from time to time, and not an all-pervasive negative experience. Also, there are many different 'flavours' of bdsm - some into humiliation more than others, and with varying intensity. Is it just one aspect of it that you have difficulty, or is it the entire experience?

What is it that you want in a relationship? What does a loving sexual relationship mean to you?
 
Listen to Stella and Netzach and the others.
They tell the truth.

And one important thing cannot be said too often:
You are NOT inadequate. Period.
Not for not fulfilling his desires. And not for anything else.
 
Warmest greetings to all of you,

I hope someone can offer some advice and/or perspective for me. I really have no idea where else to go with these questions. I could talk to a friend, but I don't think they would appreciate the complexity of this lifestyle; a councilor will probably tell me this is an abusive relationship. I figured talking to the people who dabble in this lifestyle would be the best place to go for honest conversation. So here goes...

My husband told me he was into BDSM relatively early in our relationship. Being completely niave, I had no idea what to think and really just expected it was a passing fantasy; that it would, in time, just go away. I was wrong. He wants the entire lifestyle from me. I have tried to give him what he wants, but I have always always always struggled with it. I even tried for a couple of months to be his submissive in every way, but found zero enjoyment out of it and really struggled through this period.

When we argue sex is almost always at the root of it and I believe at the base of the problems in our relationship: I am not giving him what he wants, leaving him unsatisfied and I struggle with the notion of giving it to him. I feel immense pressure to be this submissive wife, even though of late he has tried to give me space. I am always conscious of the kind of sex he would rather be having, which leaves me little desire for any kind of sex. Throughout our relationship he has tried manipulating the kind of sex he wants from me in many ways, and no matter how hard I try to open myself to BDSM, I am wholly uncomfortable with it. Often he tries to get me to comply by telling me he provides a wonderful life for me (few complaints here) by working hard to support our family; I should give him what he wants because he does all these things for me. I feel coerced and I feel inadequate because I cannot fulfill his desires.

The question I pose to you out there is: what is reasonable for him to expect of me? What is a reluctant wife such as me to do? He tells me that I am just unwilling to do anything for him because I am uncomfortable with it, but it really goes deeper than that. I understand that degradation is the name of the game and that it is supposed to be uncomfortable, but it really effects me to the core; depresses me and impacts my life outside of the bedroom.

Thank you.

The bolded parts of your post really raise red flags to me. Emotional blackmail (because that's what it is) is abusive. I also agree with Loverskitten's reaponse to the second bolded part. HE may enjoy degradation (giving I assume) but you don't and I don't either.

Sir and I have both been through bad marriages (vanilla) which have impacted on both of us. We have been in a consensual D/s relationship for the past 8 1/2 years. We do NOT involve humiliation and/or degradation in our relationship - it hits too many hot buttons (not the good kind). In fact apart from a bit of spanking ("funishment") there's not really any pain involved either.

I am wired to submit, you obviously are not. It would appear that your husband is wired to be Dominant with some sadism thrown in - not a bad thing in itself, but you both are not a good fit for each other. It would also appear that he is interested in a 24/7 D/s or M/s lifestyle and would not be satisfied with a bit of play in the bedroom.

Honestly? I think you both should call it a day and look for what will make both of you happy. :rose:
 
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You have a lot of good advice already, here. It seems you feel it is 100% your responsibility and problem, it isn't. A marriage involves 2 people, and both have a responsibility to work together to keep it working for both, not just one pointing out all they do and why they should be repaid in whatever way they demand. I am sure you also do a lot, including caring for the children and him. I am not sure it is fixable for you, but trying to make yourself someone you are not is going to destroy your heart and soul in the end, so is not a good option. I hope you find a path to happiness, whether it be with your partner, or a new life where you find your own bliss.:rose:

Catalina
 
After my first post I was thinking of adding something very similar to what Catalina said. She is 100% right. The only other thing I would ad is that once in a while we get a poster here who seems caught up in their wedding vows. I don't know if that describes you or not but, just in case it does, remember that two people make the vows. It isn't just a case where you made vows of commitment for better or for worse yada, yada, yada. He did to so that if he wants to keep his vows he should stay married to you for better or for worse, vanilla or sub, without intimidating you or forcing you to be something you don't want to be. It is not your responsibility to keep all of your vows, no matter what, while he gets a free ride just because he is the provider. Put your foot down and don't let him abuse you any more. You can lay the law down to him and put the ball in his court. I don't want to hurt your feelings but I'm guessing he will get mentally abusive and inform you that if you aren't going to submit then your relationship is over.
 
I agree with what a lot of other people wrote, there are red flags in what you wrote. Whatever kind of home he provides for you, whatever things, doesn't mean you owe him anything, when you marry someone, commit to them, the only thing one owes the other is their love and respect. Speaking as the person who has done just what your husband says , been the sole wage earner in a lifestyle that has a lot of costs involved and therefore involves a job that is stressful and long hours, I can tell you unequivocally he is full of shit, and then some. Other are right, that is emotional blackmail, it is using guilt over something you have no reason to feel guilty about, to try and twist you to his needs.

BD/SM is a lot of things, and while some people are into humiliation and degradation in it, lot of people, including myself, don't (I go totally apeshit over humiliation, once ripped the hooks out of a St. David's cross in rage as a younger person when a pro domme went over a big line). I only know what you posted, but reading between the lines it sounds like your husband was heavily into that, saw a dominant as being into humiliation and degradation, and even if you might have been willing to experiment, that could be a major turn off. I don't know what happened with you two, but I sense he tried to go full blown with this with you, getting into a D/s and so forth, when you didn't even have a background in it, and that is unwise (my therapist, a domme in her own right, would call it fucking stupidity). From your post he sounds like the kind of guy who wants things by right of ownership or something, and it is no wonder you balked.

Put it this way, I went through this the other way with my spouse years ago, she was vanilla, I was into it (and sub....), and it took time to explore and see where it went before it took off, and I had to learn to be patient...and it is different the other way, my spouse had carte blanche because I was experienced in play (via pro sessions over a number of years), but with someone you are introducing to it as a sub you can't rush it, sounds like he did.....though it could also be you simply aren't wired that way.

If he really needs his style of BD/SM, whatever that is, and you can't go there then he has to accept you can't go there and then decide what he wants to do. He can go vanilla with you and keep his BD/SM stuff as a fantasy kind of thing, if he is able to do it, he could potentially work out something with you where he gets his needs met with a pro sub or possibly, with a non pro sub where you have some sort of control over it (like, for example, no penetrative sex between him and her, no oral sex, etc...)..or if it is that big a deal, then it may mean you guys aren't compatible.

Whatever the outcome, please, please take out of this there is nothing wrong with you, you tried it, and either he screwed up and went too far, too fast and it scared or otherwise upset you, or you simply aren't into it, and in either case that isn't your fault. He might have told you about being into BD/SM earlier on, but did he say to you 'babe, to be with me, you are going to need to do this stuff with me' or did he mention it, nothing happened for a one time, then suddenly he wanted you to 'flip the switch' and be his sub....... The only thing you really owe him is your honesty with this stuff and if he truly needs this to be able to be happy he may need to find it without you, but quite honestly, it is on him. Without blaming per se, since some people are really wired this way and can't live without it, it would be cruel and yes, abusive, to expect a spouse to go along with this stuff if they aren't into it, or even if they are, in a way they are uncomfortable with.

One thought, if you want to find a way to make this work, would be to find a scene friendly counselor out there (they do exist, web searches can pick up therapists and counselors who are), that may be able to help you guys come to a workable compromise you both can live with, and if you can't, least your tried.
 
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