Abort or die?

[richard_daily]

I meant a moral distinction.

Then perhaps you failed high school ethics.

 

[richard_daily]

If I'm exhibiting a Feminist viewpoint, just means I agree with part of their philosophy, but don't accept it all without critical thought. I also do Christian things, though I'm not a Christian. I do Socialist things, though I'm not a Socialist. I do Nerd things even though...oh, right. I am a nerd. That label I accept, but I still look down upon the nerds who can't manage their caffeine intake and look like morons while LARPing.

You may not be a capital "F" Feminist, but just because you don't subscribe to lifestyle politics, doesn't mean that you don't basically completely fit the feminist "mold".

If it walks like a duck...

 

[Recidiva]

The bolded is where we are crossing wires.

Because I could easily say "I would hope that she would love him enough to not abandon the childbirth that he wants."

That's true, but to be fair, the starting conditions weren't really clear. He didn't set up whether or not he'd discussed it with his wife or what her wishes were, whether it was an accident...

I'd have different reactions to each, but although she might be a bitch on wheels to abort a child he had looked forward to, he could also be a huge bastard to toss her over for that. They might be meant for each other in that case.

 

[coachdb18]

Liberals who believe in abortion are ethnically cleaning their own clocks, by eliminating their own next generation of liberals, much as the Shakers (who abstained from sex and having any children) eventually eliminated themselves.

I guess I find some value in getting rid of liberals as a destructive force, and this is their method of choice (pun intended).

There are a lot of liberals for which I support post birth abortion, up to and including years after the fact.

 

[Recidiva]

You may not be a capital "F" Feminist, but just because you don't subscribe to lifestyle politics, doesn't mean that you don't basically completely fit the feminist "mold".

If it walks like a duck...

I fit it until I don't.

Oh fine, now I'm a duck? Just because I like to swim and have nice breasts? Geeeez!

 

[Recidiva]

Liberals who believe in abortion are ethnically cleaning their own clocks, by eliminating their own next generation of liberals, much as the Shakers (who abstained from sex and having any children) eventually eliminated themselves.

I guess I find some value in getting rid of liberals as a destructive force, and this is their method of choice (pun intended).

First, not a liberal, really. Though richard_daily is going to pin something on me if he can.

Supporting someone's right to choose doesn't mean you have to prove it by compulsively only making one choice for yourself just to make a point.

I support another woman's right to choose and I've had two kids. They're not liberal either, just as prone to argument as their mom is.

 

[TorontoBoyWest]

That's true, but to be fair, the starting conditions weren't really clear. He didn't set up whether or not he'd discussed it with his wife or what her wishes were, whether it was an accident...

I'd have different reactions to each, but although she might be a bitch on wheels to abort a child he had looked forward to, he could also be a huge bastard to toss her over for that. They might be meant for each other in that case.

The starting conditions don't really apply. The reality is not in the "we decided not to have kids" scenario but in the "its my choice whether you like it or not" scene.

 

[TexasWife25]

The starting conditions don't really apply. The reality is not in the "we decided not to have kids" scenario but in the "its my choice whether you like it or not" scene.

What is your solution to the problem?

If she doesnt want a to have a child, and the father does?

 

[richard_daily]

I fit it until I don't.

Oh fine, now I'm a duck? Just because I like to swim and have nice breasts? Geeeez!

I just like ruffling your feathers.

 

[eyer]

You wish to impose your personal buuuuuuushit on other people you fucking tyrant.

I've posted a whole bunch on the subject of abortion on this Board...

...you're welcome to find even one where I've championed "imposing" my thoughts on the matter on anyone else through any "tyrant" means you can hallucinate of.

This is a free marketplace of ideas...

...not one of your favorite comic books, bozo.

BTW: I was a stoner long before you were a leak in your dad's condom...

...the difference between you and I in that regard is that I simply grew up.

 

[richard_daily]

Liberals who believe in abortion are ethnically cleaning their own clocks, by eliminating their own next generation of liberals, much as the Shakers (who abstained from sex and having any children) eventually eliminated themselves.

I guess I find some value in getting rid of liberals as a destructive force, and this is their method of choice (pun intended).

There are a lot of liberals for which I support post birth abortion, up to and including years after the fact.

Abortion happens, it's not "belief", it's fact.

Also, "belief" in abortion, doesn't mean that you have to have one... it simply means that you're not wearing blinders, and that you respect a woman's sexuality and right to choose what she does with her own body.

I find it odd (and just a tad hypocritical) that you call liberals a "destructive force" in one line, and then in the next, call for their select extermination.

 

[Recidiva]

The starting conditions don't really apply. The reality is not in the "we decided not to have kids" scenario but in the "its my choice whether you like it or not" scene.

Yes, they do matter. To me anyway. But regardless of what they are, I don't see the morality of abandoning someone you promised to honor or protect because they did something entirely within the law.

So the "moral" side of it really falls apart. You want a woman to be completely responsible for a completely unknown quantity or personality for all the future, someone who might grow up a girl who believes she might need an abortion herself someday, but she doesn't deserve the same?

Do you also dump the grown-up baby when she makes her own choice? Because these are people, not ideas.

 

[blobfish]

Then perhaps you failed high school ethics.

I see that you passed Political Correctness 101 at Berkeley. You know, because everyone who doesn't believe in abortion is an idiot.

 

[Recidiva]

I just like ruffling your feathers.

*preens*

 

[blobfish]

I'm not implying, I'm saying it's science and biochemistry. Look at the research.

So you're saying that rapists are not at fault?

 

[eyer]

You dont want to provide any stats because you and I both know, death from abortion is beyond rare, and I bet in the last 10 years, less then 10 women have died from receiving an abortion at planned parenthood.

You understand that well over a 1 million+ American human lives die each year "from abortion", right?

BTW: you didn't Google, did ya? Try it: not only will you find deaths at the hands of PP, but deaths at all the other abortion facilities, too.

 

[TexasWife25]

BTW: you didn't Google, did ya? Try it: not only will you find deaths at the hands of PP, but deaths at all the other abortion facilities, too.

Bullshit

 

[Recidiva]

So you're saying that rapists are not at fault?

...did you see me say that?

 

[richard_daily]

I see that you passed Political Correctness 101 at Berkeley. You know, because everyone who doesn't believe in abortion is an idiot.

You have also failed to understand the term: "political correctness"...

I think it's time for detention.

 

[TorontoBoyWest]

What is your solution to the problem?

If she doesnt want a to have a child, and the father does?

Well apparently it is a divorce.

Because saying "it should be our decision on whether to have this child, not just yours" is taking away the right to choose for the woman in the scenario.

Because as soon as I say "in that scenario she has the child" I say exactly that don't I?

Which is what I mean by black and white. In this scenario the man saying "we should have this child, here are the reasons why", is really just a man controlling a woman.

So its the big D and hope that someday men will be able to reproduce.

 

[richard_daily]

You understand that well over a 1 million+ American human lives die each year "from abortion", right?

BTW: you didn't Google, did ya? Try it: not only will you find deaths at the hands of PP, but deaths at all the other abortion facilities, too.

And how many millions of these lives are lost when a fertilized egg fails to implant in a woman's uterus?

Where are the warriors of truth and virtue then?

If a woman fails to implant, it's your duty as a good christian to punish her... After all, life begins at the moment of fertilization!

And if you truly believe that abortion is murder, what does that say about you that you're not out there violently protecting the "innocent children"?

 

[blobfish]

You have also failed to understand the term: "political correctness"...

I think it's time for detention.

Political correctness, in this context, means that the popular line must always be towed. White males are the source of all evil in the world

 

[blobfish]

...did you see me say that?

No, but you said that humans cannot resist their sexual urges.

 

[Recidiva]

Well apparently it is a divorce.

Because saying "it should be our decision on whether to have this child, not just yours" is taking away the right to choose for the woman in the scenario.

Because as soon as I say "in that scenario she has the child" I say exactly that don't I?

Which is what I mean by black and white. In this scenario the man saying "we should have this child, here are the reasons why", is really just a man controlling a woman.

So its the big D and hope that someday men will be able to reproduce.

Women aren't infallible. Pregnancy is a lot like sea travel. You don't know until you go whether or not you're entirely unsuited to it, and it is likely to make you violently ill. Feeling the changes in their body and seeing the changes to their life counts a lot more than holding hands and saying "I want to have kids" while enjoying an uninterrupted candelight dinner.

Some men think they want to have kids also, and suck at it once it happens. I married two.

 

[TorontoBoyWest]

Yes, they do matter. To me anyway. But regardless of what they are, I don't see the morality of abandoning someone you promised to honor or protect because they did something entirely within the law.

So the "moral" side of it really falls apart. You want a woman to be completely responsible for a completely unknown quantity or personality for all the future, someone who might grow up a girl who believes she might need an abortion herself someday, but she doesn't deserve the same?

Do you also dump the grown-up baby when she makes her own choice? Because these are people, not ideas.

Just because they matter to you doesnt mean they are right.

I dont see the morality of taking the possibilty of a life long relationship with an offspring away from someone because you dont feel like caring a child to term.

And dont give me the herp derp either. That is the essence of the argument.

So I guess we agree to disagree.