I've been saying this for years. Finally others are saying it publicly!

[LJ_Reloaded]

My wife and I made good money with the help of not only the government (the Internet, roads, public transportation, law enforcement, etc.) but also the 99%ers who support our business.

I support the 99% because I can't survive without the 99%. America can't survive without them.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...eneur-didn-t-build-what-I-did-single-handedly

President Barack Obama, stating the obvious:

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

It's a no-brainer. Yet Mitt Romney, idiot, is offended:

I don't think anyone could have said what he said who actually started a business or been in a business. And my own view is what the president said was startling and revealing. I find it extraordinary that a philosophy of that nature would be spoken by a president of the United States.

I've started a business. Two, in fact. Kos Media, parent of Daily Kos, has 20 full-time and a handful of full-time equivalents. Vox Media has close to 150 employees.

And guess what? I couldn't do what I did without employees and readers (i.e. "customers") educated in public schools and universities. I couldn't do what I did without the government-created internet. I couldn't do what I do without my employees being able to drive to work in government-funded roads and public transportation systems. I couldn't do what I do without a government-regulated securities system that allows investors to engage with clearly delineated rules and protections.

The list goes on and on.

What's breathtaking is the arrogance and hubris of a legacy rich fuck who thinks that any single person can build any business without the help of a government-created, government-funded or government-regulated entity. I'd love to see ONE example of that magical entrepreneur. Just one.

You need that first good idea. No one doubts that. And the successful entrepreneur will get a lifelong of accolades for that idea. But that, in no way, suggests that any business is built by one person, and without any government help. Claiming otherwise simply flies in the face of all evidence, reason and common sense.

Which, of course, is par for the course for the Republican Party.

 

[fuckwaffle]

And it wasn't government! Government is just a contractor we the people HIRE to do the things we the people find it difficult to do as individuals. The really work is done by those people that you and Obama despise, the small businessman.

The roads weren't built by the government, they were built by private constructions companies. The internet wasn't built by government, even though Al Gore claims he invented it, it was built by private companies. Companies that we the people hired to build them via the government we HIRED to coordinate the construction.

So it was we the people who built all those thing you attribute to the government, because the government is we the people and every two years or so we the people meet to either rehire or replace current contractors to manage our concerns.

Without people there can be no government, but there can be people without the government.

 

[Sean Renaud]

And it wasn't government! Government is just a contractor we the people HIRE to do the things we the people find it difficult to do as individuals. The really work is done by those people that you and Obama despise, the small businessman.

The roads weren't built by the government, they were built by private constructions companies. The internet wasn't built by government, even though Al Gore claims he invented it, it was built by private companies. Companies that we the people hired to build them via the government we HIRED to coordinate the construction.

So it was we the people who built all those thing you attribute to the government, because the government is we the people and every two years or so we the people meet to either rehire or replace current contractors to manage our concerns.

Without people there can be no government, but there can be people without the government.

Can you please cram more bullshit into a single statement?

Nobody despises the small businessman. He is worshipped by all in America and if he'd speak up and say what would make his life a bit easier we'd bend over backwards to give it to him and fuck over big business if that's what it takes.

All your mentions of government didn't build this, small business did is bullshit. Most of that was Big Business and all of it was with government funding which means the government did it.

Nobody is disputing that government and business (and once upon a time Religion) formed this odd partnership where they can't exist alone, well nobody on the Left is, the Right are doing their best to pretend just that.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Can you please cram more bullshit into a single statement?

Nobody despises the small businessman. He is worshipped by all in America and if he'd speak up and say what would make his life a bit easier we'd bend over backwards to give it to him and fuck over big business if that's what it takes.

All your mentions of government didn't build this, small business did is bullshit. Most of that was Big Business and all of it was with government funding which means the government did it.

Let him go to a place without a Government. Good luck building a business. Better luck protecting it from bandits.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Let him go to a place without a Government. Good luck building a business. Better luck protecting it from bandits.

Same could be said about places with too much government, the only diff is the bandits have uniforms and legal backing when they come rob you.

Can you please cram more bullshit into a single statement?

Nobody despises the small businessman. He is worshipped by all in America and if he'd speak up and say what would make his life a bit easier we'd bend over backwards to give it to him and fuck over big business if that's what it takes.

All your mentions of government didn't build this, small business did is bullshit. Most of that was Big Business and all of it was with government funding which means the government did it.

Nobody is disputing that government and business (and once upon a time Religion) formed this odd partnership where they can't exist alone, well nobody on the Left is, the Right are doing their best to pretend just that.

You are right, but to be fair so is he. The government doesn't have money, they get it from the business's large and small engaged in commerce right? Everything from mega corporation to the maw n' paw gas station are the american people wouldn't you agree? So in a very real sense business's large and small, and we the people built all this shit and his metaphor of the government being a contractor hired to manage all of it is a very reasonable if not accurate one.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Same could be said about places with too much government, the only diff is the bandits have uniforms and legal backing when they come rob you.

This we can agree on.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Not even no government. While I like the Somalia theme lets look at the Red States. If Republican economics worked why is Texas (with a shit standard of living btw) the only big hitter out of the red states?

Why are the blue states places you move to and the red states places you move from and sure someone is going to bring up people are moving out of California but clearly not fast enough since the population won't go down and oh yeah, economy still best in nation.

It's not even a competition in the US, I bet you could make a graph showing that democrats simply have better economies. I have a suspicion that the red states, much like poor people everywhere, are too busy scratching and scrounging to get to tommorow to make long term decisions but we rebuilt the south once, I'll happily pay to do it again if you promise not to fuck up again.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It's one of the fundamental differences in political philosophies:

• Democrats recognize that government is responsible for the creation and maintenance of the nation's infrastructure
• Republicans use the nation's infrastructure but jump through hoops to avoid recognizing the government's role in the creation and maintenance of the nation's infrastructure
• Libertarians use the nation's infrastructure but actively deny that the government had any role whatsoever in the creation and maintenance of the nation's infrastructure

 

[jeninflorida]

It's one of the fundamental differences in political philosophies:

• Democrats recognize that government is responsible for the creation and maintenance of the nation's infrastructure
• Republicans use the nation's infrastructure but jump through hoops to avoid recognizing the government's role in the creation and maintenance of the nation's infrastructure
• Libertarians use the nation's infrastructure but actively deny that the government had any role whatsoever in the creation and maintenance of the nation's infrastructure

Thanks for the fresh pile of horse shit. You are talking extremes. Two, you accept no responsibility for costs and blame the other side when they are unwilling to purchase $5,000 hammers when you should have purchased $5 hammers

 

[Sean Renaud]

Thanks for the fresh pile of horse shit. You are talking extremes. Two, you accept no responsibility for costs and blame the other side when they are unwilling to purchase $5,000 hammers when you should have purchased $5 hammers

Nope. Talking simple facts. We accept all responsibilities for the costs. We have no arguments about buying $5 dollar hammers. We challenge you to find a sollution that costs less than the problem. As it stands simply returning to Clinton era taxes and removing a few caps and loop holes will solve all our problems overnight. We have these problems because Republicans want them. Not because they are required.

 

[EmaEsmerelda]

So it was we the people who built all those thing you attribute to the government, because the government is we the people and every two years or so we the people meet to either rehire or replace current contractors to manage our concerns.

Without people there can be no government, but there can be people without the government.

Excellent point. Correct me if I am mistaken, but the entire premise of our country, heritage, and culture was initiated by the idea of "WE THE PEOPLE, IN ORDER TO FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION...." written up by a group of businessmen????? How quickly Old Money forgets our origins....tsk, tsk.....

 

[fuckwaffle]

Can you please cram more bullshit into a single statement?

Nobody despises the small businessman. He is worshipped by all in America and if he'd speak up and say what would make his life a bit easier we'd bend over backwards to give it to him and fuck over big business if that's what it takes.

All your mentions of government didn't build this, small business did is bullshit. Most of that was Big Business and all of it was with government funding which means the government did it.

Nobody is disputing that government and business (and once upon a time Religion) formed this odd partnership where they can't exist alone, well nobody on the Left is, the Right are doing their best to pretend just that.

I could just call you stupid, but I'll try and explain to you how the government doesn't have any of it's own money, it's taxpayer money...the peoples money, the only thing government did with it was to distribute it. So we the people paid for it all, not government. But, you being a communist, I guess you don't think the people own anything, not even the money they earn from their labors. Are you signing over all your earnings over to big government? Why not?

 

[jeninflorida]

When I read this bull shit story, it makes me wonder with all this help from "Government" then why do some 90% of new businesses fail in the first year.

This is fluff piece due to the fact that Government role is to provide a stable, pro business environment, level playing field, and more or less the infrastructure part.

No business owner will ever say we don't need infrastructure or that we should never pay for it. However, intelligent and sane people will offer suggestions on how we can do more for less.

This fluff pieces makes me scream, "Why don't democrats ever worry about costs"?

oh yeah, because they never create value or wealth.

LT puke piece and the pile of fresh shit I just laid on you, is the wrong way to do things.

so LT, get your head out of your ass.

My wife and I made good money with the help of not only the government (the Internet, roads, public transportation, law enforcement, etc.) but also the 99%ers who support our business.

I support the 99% because I can't survive without the 99%. America can't survive without them.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...eneur-didn-t-build-what-I-did-single-handedly

President Barack Obama, stating the obvious:


It's a no-brainer. Yet Mitt Romney, idiot, is offended:


I've started a business. Two, in fact. Kos Media, parent of Daily Kos, has 20 full-time and a handful of full-time equivalents. Vox Media has close to 150 employees.

And guess what? I couldn't do what I did without employees and readers (i.e. "customers") educated in public schools and universities. I couldn't do what I did without the government-created internet. I couldn't do what I do without my employees being able to drive to work in government-funded roads and public transportation systems. I couldn't do what I do without a government-regulated securities system that allows investors to engage with clearly delineated rules and protections.

The list goes on and on.

What's breathtaking is the arrogance and hubris of a legacy rich fuck who thinks that any single person can build any business without the help of a government-created, government-funded or government-regulated entity. I'd love to see ONE example of that magical entrepreneur. Just one.

You need that first good idea. No one doubts that. And the successful entrepreneur will get a lifelong of accolades for that idea. But that, in no way, suggests that any business is built by one person, and without any government help. Claiming otherwise simply flies in the face of all evidence, reason and common sense.

Which, of course, is par for the course for the Republican Party.

 

[fuckwaffle]

Excellent point. Correct me if I am mistaken, but the entire premise of our country, heritage, and culture was initiated by the idea of "WE THE PEOPLE, IN ORDER TO FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION...." written up by a group of businessmen????? How quickly Old Money forgets our origins....tsk, tsk.....

So in your world businessmen aren't people? And being people they...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I could just call you stupid, but I'll try and explain to you how the government doesn't have any of it's own money, it's taxpayer money...the peoples money, the only thing government did with it was to distribute it. So we the people paid for it all, not government. But, you being a communist, I guess you don't think the people own anything, not even the money they earn from their labors. Are you signing over all your earnings over to big government? Why not?

That's a nice philosophy but it's not true. The government does infact create things (money's a funny thing, you'll realize that when you're older. It behaves in this funny way that is probably best described as friction. Just moving it around actively creates more.) but you didn't dispute any of the points I made because you can't.

As for signing over all my earnings to big government that's entirely dependent on what I get back and how it works out. Can you describe this system you are talking about? If it's equal distribution regardless of merit then no. If it's everybody gets the whatever we deign as a society is the bare minimum and then we work from there I've got few complaints. It's not like I don't sign over all my earnings to my landlord and my grocery store already.

 

[jeninflorida]

That's a nice philosophy but it's not true. The government does infact create things (money's a funny thing, you'll realize that when you're older. It behaves in this funny way that is probably best described as friction. Just moving it around actively creates more.) but you didn't dispute any of the points I made because you can't.

As for signing over all my earnings to big government that's entirely dependent on what I get back and how it works out. Can you describe this system you are talking about? If it's equal distribution regardless of merit then no. If it's everybody gets the whatever we deign as a society is the bare minimum and then we work from there I've got few complaints. It's not like I don't sign over all my earnings to my landlord and my grocery store already.

Sean, here is my issue with you. You want to enable people to be lazy and to reward them with money that other people created. Now, if you would come back and say that we need help fund programs to help people, that's one thing. But, you and some of the others want to tax successful people and dole it out like candy for those who chose to be lazy.

You think up excuses as to why people should better themselves. Why its the "man" holding people down.

Suck it up, grow up. News flash, "Life is hard"

stop being a sissy and become a man

 

[Sean Renaud]

When I read this bull shit story, it makes me wonder with all this help from "Government" then why do some 90% of new businesses fail in the first year.

This is fluff piece due to the fact that Government role is to provide a stable, pro business environment, level playing field, and more or less the infrastructure part.

No business owner will ever say we don't need infrastructure or that we should never pay for it. However, intelligent and sane people will offer suggestions on how we can do more for less.

This fluff pieces makes me scream, "Why don't democrats ever worry about costs"?

oh yeah, because they never create value or wealth.

LT puke piece and the pile of fresh shit I just laid on you, is the wrong way to do things.

so LT, get your head out of your ass.

Democrats do worry about costs. They do create value and wealth and in vast quanties. I know you've never heard of Buffet, Jobs or Gates but you should look them up. While you're at it maybe look into this town called Hollywood. They're very interested to hear how they don't create wealth.

Sean, here is my issue with you. You want to enable people to be lazy and to reward them with money that other people created. Now, if you would come back and say that we need help fund programs to help people, that's one thing. But, you and some of the others want to tax successful people and dole it out like candy for those who chose to be lazy.

You think up excuses as to why people should better themselves. Why its the "man" holding people down.

Suck it up, grow up. News flash, "Life is hard"

stop being a sissy and become a man

Very, very few people are lazy and after that programs to help people is just a positive spin on taxing money from the successful (and many aren't even that, there is a difference between rich and successful) and doling it out like candy.

Life is hard because we make it hard. Not because it has to be. That's why Europe has better economic mobility than we do. Because they strive to make it easy.

 

[jeninflorida]

Democrats do worry about costs. They do create value and wealth and in vast quanties. I know you've never heard of Buffet, Jobs or Gates but you should look them up. While you're at it maybe look into this town called Hollywood. They're very interested to hear how they don't create wealth.



Very, very few people are lazy and after that programs to help people is just a positive spin on taxing money from the successful (and many aren't even that, there is a difference between rich and successful) and doling it out like candy.

Life is hard because we make it hard. Not because it has to be. That's why Europe has better economic mobility than we do. Because they strive to make it easy.

Then move to Greece?

 

[fuckwaffle]

That's a nice philosophy but it's not true. The government does infact create things (money's a funny thing, you'll realize that when you're older. It behaves in this funny way that is probably best described as friction. Just moving it around actively creates more.) but you didn't dispute any of the points I made because you can't.

As for signing over all my earnings to big government that's entirely dependent on what I get back and how it works out. Can you describe this system you are talking about? If it's equal distribution regardless of merit then no. If it's everybody gets the whatever we deign as a society is the bare minimum and then we work from there I've got few complaints. It's not like I don't sign over all my earnings to my landlord and my grocery store already.

Government now creates money? Really? I do understand that they print, coin and store it, but they didn't create it. The first money was created and used by merchants some 3,000 - 100,000 years ago. This form of money is called commodity money as its form is that of the commodity, such as barely, gold, silver, etc.

Today the world economy is based on fiat money, money which is based not on its intrinsic value but a value based on some government regulation or law. Although the US dollar is backed by the gold in the national treasury, it is no longer payable in gold.

So while the government uses money, it didn't nor does it create money. Money is a abstract used to value a commodity, the government does not produce a commodity except the fiat currency called money, it is the market that values that commodity.

Thus when there is more currency in circulation the value of the dollar is less. So when the government "creates" more money it is worth less as a trade symbol to the rest of, not only the country, but to the rest of the world. Print or coin enough fiat money and it becomes worthless.

So explain how government creates money?

 

[jeninflorida]

Democrats do worry about costs. They do create value and wealth and in vast quanties. I know you've never heard of Buffet, Jobs or Gates but you should look them up. While you're at it maybe look into this town called Hollywood. They're very interested to hear how they don't create wealth.



Very, very few people are lazy and after that programs to help people is just a positive spin on taxing money from the successful (and many aren't even that, there is a difference between rich and successful) and doling it out like candy.

Life is hard because we make it hard. Not because it has to be. That's why Europe has better economic mobility than we do. Because they strive to make it easy.

You and LJ are confused. Maybe its time to take that act on a road show

 

[Sean Renaud]

Government now creates money? Really? I do understand that they print, coin and store it, but they didn't create it. The first money was created and used by merchants some 3,000 - 100,000 years ago. This form of money is called commodity money as its form is that of the commodity, such as barely, gold, silver, etc.

Today the world economy is based on fiat money, money which is based not on its intrinsic value but a value based on some government regulation or law. Although the US dollar is backed by the gold in the national treasury, it is no longer payable in gold.

So while the government uses money, it didn't nor does it create money. Money is a abstract used to value a commodity, the government does not produce a commodity except the fiat currency called money, it is the market that values that commodity.

Thus when there is more currency in circulation the value of the dollar is less. So when the government "creates" more money it is worth less as a trade symbol to the rest of, not only the country, but to the rest of the world. Print or coin enough fiat money and it becomes worthless.

So explain how government creates money?

It's funny. I've never in my life stumbled upon this, and I mean this with no sarcasm at all, this level of brilliant understanding of what money is. Excellent explanation from top to bottom. Which frankly makes your question interesting.

The government doesn't, strictly speaking, create money. As you beautifuly explain. It does however create value and the market values that commodity. There is a value in having an educated work force, if I hire someone I can be confident they can read and know basic arithmetic. That's value. Since the list of things the government provides is listed on here ad nasuem (and I'm not in a CP mood I'm gonna stop there and flip the script.

How do entertainers create money? What of value comes out of the NFL? What do lawyers create?

 

[fuckwaffle]

It's funny. I've never in my life stumbled upon this, and I mean this with no sarcasm at all, this level of brilliant understanding of what money is. Excellent explanation from top to bottom. Which frankly makes your question interesting.

The government doesn't, strictly speaking, create money. As you beautifuly explain. It does however create value and the market values that commodity. There is a value in having an educated work force, if I hire someone I can be confident they can read and know basic arithmetic. That's value. Since the list of things the government provides is listed on here ad nasuem (and I'm not in a CP mood I'm gonna stop there and flip the script.

How do entertainers create money? What of value comes out of the NFL? What do lawyers create?

Well I'm glad you have been educated...it would seem that the government indoctrination center in you local district did a poor job. Actually you have it completely ass backwards...the Government doesn't create value either, they merely specify a value for each symbol, yet the true market value of that symbol is determined by the market itself.

It used to be that a pound sterling was just that exactly one pound of sterling silver. Today a US Dollar is worth (true value ) 1.55 pounds (i.e. the symbol for money in England). That value is set by money speculators in the commodity markets around the world. No government has a say in what the true value of their currency is worth in another country or for that matter in their own, it is all market driven.

If a baker charges you $100 US for a loaf of bread that's what you will pay if the market determines that the worth of the money symbol of the US has been inflated beyond what the face value is.


So the market determines what the true value of currency is not a government.

 

[jeninflorida]

Well I'm glad you have been educated...it would seem that the government indoctrination center in you local district did a poor job. Actually you have it completely ass backwards...the Government doesn't create value either, they merely specify a value for each symbol, yet the true market value of that symbol is determined by the market itself.

It used to be that a pound sterling was just that exactly one pound of sterling silver. Today a US Dollar is worth (true value ) 1.55 pounds (i.e. the symbol for money in England). That value is set by money speculators in the commodity markets around the world. No government has a say in what the true value of their currency is worth in another country or for that matter in their own, it is all market driven.

If a baker charges you $100 US for a loaf of bread that's what you will pay if the market determines that the worth of the money symbol of the US has been inflated beyond what the face value is.


So the market determines what the true value of currency is not a government.

Government knows best, just look at the Soviet Union

 

[Sean Renaud]

Government knows best, just look at the Soviet Union

You mean the country that went from being everybody's bitch to being a super power so fast it made everybody's head spin? There are plenty of reasons not to emulate Russia but one of them isn't a lack of wealth creation.

 

[fuckwaffle]

You mean the country that went from being everybody's bitch to being a super power so fast it made everybody's head spin? There are plenty of reasons not to emulate Russia but one of them isn't a lack of wealth creation.

No not Russia, it's predecessor the Soviet Union. Remember the U.S.S.R.? The one that fell apart, went down the toilet?