question about writing - 2 friends talking

[jeninflorida]

okay, I have my main character going into a restaurant (but might change it to a bar), she's meeting her best friend. The best friend is a wild child and is telling her about her latest date/conquest.

What's the best way to describe the date...as a flash back? or in conversation?

I love the idea of a flash back, as it can add 2,000 sexually rich words

 

[soflabbwlvr]

okay, I have my main character going into a restaurant (but might change it to a bar), she's meeting her best friend. The best friend is a wild child and is telling her about her latest date/conquest.

What's the best way to describe the date...as a flash back? or in conversation?

I love the idea of a flash back, as it can add 2,000 sexually rich words

My initial reaction is that I would do it in a conversation. On further reflection, I am wondering how important to the story is that date? If it is a transformative event, then perhaps a flashback may make more sense.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Is the best friend a point of view character in any other way? If not, you might avoid the flashback. But you could write the episode out anyway, publish it as an extra

 

[jeninflorida]

My initial reaction is that I would do it in a conversation. On further reflection, I am wondering how important to the story is that date? If it is a transformative event, then perhaps a flashback may make more sense.

Hey honey! Its not central to the story, but it does add fuel to my main character from being a work-o-holic to 2nd guessing life. The night before she walked in the restroom and accidentally found two women .... so when Samantha is telling her about her date. so it does add to the characters mental state of mind.

I got carried away, and was planning on having the chapter be Shannon and Samantha talking but I ended up writing a 25 page menage (fmf) with Samantha and a married couple doing it in a hotel high rise with floor to ceiling window.

 

[PennLady]

I think this depends a lot on what POV you're using in the story, 3d person or 1st. If third, and as Stella says, the best friend has her on POV, you can use that. In that case, why make it a flash back? If BF is a wild child, might she not relish the chance to give someone a blow-by-blow (ahem) description?

If it's first person, then that wouldn't be an option. Seems to me you'd have to kind of filter it through the narrator, although that could be fun too. I.e., "My jaw dropped when she told me [insert explicit fun here]."

But you have to do what works for you, and sometimes it doesn't work at all. I tried to write an epilogue for my latest story, from two different POVs, and thought about others but none of it was right, so I didn't.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Then it's the convo that is transformative.

Or, perhaps Samantha's imagination-- you could write it as if Samantha was "seeing it clear as day" in her mind.

 

[jeninflorida]

Is the best friend a point of view character in any other way? If not, you might avoid the flashback. But you could write the episode out anyway, publish it as an extra

Thanks sweetie, I'm thinking about doing a Patterson (James) in that, first three chapters will be focused on Shannon then after the incident at the bar (she walks in on two women .... in the bathroom) I will add 2-3 chapters with Shannon being the main pov.

this is told in 3rd person.

Samantha isn't pivotal to the story, but her sex life is.

 

[sr71plt]

You've set up the situation as a conversation. Why not use it as such?

 

[jeninflorida]

You've set up the situation as a conversation. Why not use it as such?

Well, that is what I meant to write. However, last night I wrote 12k words totally off target as a menage. My plan was to have it be a simple conversation between Shannon and Samantha, and after Shannon hears about the date, well that makes Shannon wanting to have something like that happen to her.

Now, I'm trying to save the menage. Have chapters 1-3 be about Shannon with the 3rd chapter with Shannon walking into the ladies room and two women are...

then thinking if I did a Patterson, if I could do chapter 4-6 with Samantha (and the menage).

Then chapter 7 being Shannon having lunch with Samantha. Samantha talks about her date.

This way, I can keep what I have, but add in the menage.

Maybe?

 

[SamScribble]

Well, that is what I meant to write. However, last night I wrote 12k words totally off target as a menage.

You know, Graham Greene used to consider 500 words a pretty good day's work.

 

[sr71plt]

You know, Graham Greene used to consider 500 words a pretty good day's work.

The rest of his day was pretty busy. I think of 3,000 words as a good day.

 

[bashfullyshameless]

I Vote for the Flashback

Hey honey! Its not central to the story, but it does add fuel to my main character from being a work-o-holic to 2nd guessing life. The night before she walked in the restroom and accidentally found two women .... so when Samantha is telling her about her date. so it does add to the characters mental state of mind.

I got carried away, and was planning on having the chapter be Shannon and Samantha talking but I ended up writing a 25 page menage (fmf) with Samantha and a married couple doing it in a hotel high rise with floor to ceiling window.

Two thoughts:

1. I generally try to go by an ethic of "show, don't tell." If you can work out a good shift to a flashback in the conversation, that's almost certainly the way to go; it's usually more immersive and more engaging.

2. Conversations are almost never as descriptive as a writer would like them to be when it comes to relating stories. If you want rich detail, go with the flashback; having someone tell a richly detailed story in a bar usually makes their conversational style a bit less believable.

 

[KlaytonFrost]

I would lean towards a flashback too. Or--I don't know if there's a name for it--you could simply report what was said in your own words. IE: "She told me how she'd caught a taxi to the hotel with him. His eyes were on her the whole time... etc etc"

Conveying it through the conversation could be fun as well, but if you've already got it in flashback form why make extra work for yourself?

 

[bashfullyshameless]

I also want to note, just on general principle, my appreciation for jeninflorida's avatar. *swoon*

 

[MaxSebastian]

If I were you, I would save the menage for later, and re-configure it to be about Shannon and a married couple, and then write your way there.

That way, you've not only saved the scene (albeit with a change of protagonist), you've got a guaranteed strong last part of the whole story, and some tantalizing build-up to that scene as Shannon progresses from the shy original person to the person who would actually have a threesome with a married couple - some good character progression.

You could start off with Shannon hearing about Samantha's date in conversation - and let us know how shocked and also turned on Shannon is hearing her friend firstly open up in the first place, and secondly reveal the kind of stuff she's never even thought about before, but can't stop thinking about afterwards.

Then you could follow as Shannon wants to recreate such a turn of events for herself, and instead of merely repeating Samantha's experiences through Shannon's eyes, because you've only put some of the key details in the conversation, it feels fresh to the reader as Shannon manages to recreate the circumstances herself.

I think it could be really interesting to see the progression of Shannon's character as she builds the confidence and courage to go through with her desires.

 

[sr71plt]

Upon reflection, I think bashfullyshameless gave very good advise in post #12.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

The problem with the flashback--which I agree is far more detailed than a conversation can ever be--is that it doesn't help us understand why or how the even is so transformative for the main character. However lovely a side story it is, I simply can't see how a flashback that is completely missing the main character can be shown to transform the main character.

However, if two people really do have a (short?) conversation, it seems likely that the main character (Shannon?) will reflect on it later, perhaps in the privacy of her own home, and certainly in the privacy of her own mind.

With that in mind, another possibility that could combine the details of a flashback with the focus on the main character might be a post-conversation fantasy she has--either as a dream sequence or fantasy during masturbation or something like that--and filling in all the dirty details that simply can't be conveyed in a conversation.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

okay, I have my main character going into a restaurant (but might change it to a bar), she's meeting her best friend. The best friend is a wild child and is telling her about her latest date/conquest.

What's the best way to describe the date...as a flash back? or in conversation?

I love the idea of a flash back, as it can add 2,000 sexually rich words

You can certainly have sexually rich either way. Certainly in a flashback, and in speech too, as the 'wild child' character would certainly have no hesitation relating the action graphically.

I think doing it in a flashback takes the reader too much out of the immediate setting and relationship. Flashbacks often work best when remembered by a character when he/she is alone. Since in this case the character will be with another character the reader is maybe going to be wondering during those 2,000 words what that other character is doing during the first character's reverie.

Also, if the other character's reaction to the story is important then it has to be done with dialogue.

 

[honeybeez]

The problem with the flashback--which I agree is far more detailed than a conversation can ever be--is that it doesn't help us understand why or how the even is so transformative for the main character. However lovely a side story it is, I simply can't see how a flashback that is completely missing the main character can be shown to transform the main character.

However, if two people really do have a (short?) conversation, it seems likely that the main character (Shannon?) will reflect on it later, perhaps in the privacy of her own home, and certainly in the privacy of her own mind.

With that in mind, another possibility that could combine the details of a flashback with the focus on the main character might be a post-conversation fantasy she has--either as a dream sequence or fantasy during masturbation or something like that--and filling in all the dirty details that simply can't be conveyed in a conversation.

What she said.

I would personally rather read about the main character's fantasy version of the conversation. I don't like "jumping heads", especially if the character we're jumping into is not a "main" character. Flashbacks work for me if it's part of the ride, but not so much if it's just a detour (as wickedly lovely as that detour might be). Personally, those sort of deviations mostly leave me feeling discombobulated…even if I'm momentarily titillated.

Much luck in the writing!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Two thoughts:

1. I generally try to go by an ethic of "show, don't tell." If you can work out a good shift to a flashback in the conversation, that's almost certainly the way to go; it's usually more immersive and more engaging.

2. Conversations are almost never as descriptive as a writer would like them to be when it comes to relating stories. If you want rich detail, go with the flashback; having someone tell a richly detailed story in a bar usually makes their conversational style a bit less believable.

Showing someone talking about something is a great way to develop their character. They might not be talking in richly detailed prose, but they can be shown in rich detail.

 

[jeninflorida]

Two thoughts:

1. I generally try to go by an ethic of "show, don't tell." If you can work out a good shift to a flashback in the conversation, that's almost certainly the way to go; it's usually more immersive and more engaging.

2. Conversations are almost never as descriptive as a writer would like them to be when it comes to relating stories. If you want rich detail, go with the flashback; having someone tell a richly detailed story in a bar usually makes their conversational style a bit less believable.

Thanks! I really like the idea of having Chapters 1-3 about Shannon, then chapters 4-6 from Samantha point of view. This is my goal today to edit and write from Samantha's point of view to see if it works.

Plan B, write it as a conversation with Samantha telling Shannon about her wild night. Just feel that this way, loses some passion, heat, and steam.

 

[jeninflorida]

I also want to note, just on general principle, my appreciation for jeninflorida's avatar. *swoon*

lol Thanks!

 

[TE999]

A first person reminiscence within the context of the conversation while the friend periodically interjects a comment would be one solution.

 

[jeninflorida]

The problem with the flashback--which I agree is far more detailed than a conversation can ever be--is that it doesn't help us understand why or how the even is so transformative for the main character. However lovely a side story it is, I simply can't see how a flashback that is completely missing the main character can be shown to transform the main character.

However, if two people really do have a (short?) conversation, it seems likely that the main character (Shannon?) will reflect on it later, perhaps in the privacy of her own home, and certainly in the privacy of her own mind.

With that in mind, another possibility that could combine the details of a flashback with the focus on the main character might be a post-conversation fantasy she has--either as a dream sequence or fantasy during masturbation or something like that--and filling in all the dirty details that simply can't be conveyed in a conversation.

I think its hard to pull off using a flashback well. So, I took a page from Patterson and create 3 new chapters to put in the opening of the book based on Samanta. Then Chapter 4 we jump over to Shannon. Tomorrow I'm going to have a friend read this