Obama Care, How Will Be Judged On Thursday?

[Byron In Exile]

massive tax increase? You take some personal responsibility for the health of yourself and your family and there is NO increase.

Take responsibility, pay your own way, and pay a penalty for it.

 

[mercury14]

Take responsibility, pay your own way, and pay a penalty for it.

If you became chronically ill and needed long-term care while uninsured, would you be okay with medical facilities turning you away? And insurance companies denying you coverage because you're expensive?

 

[Byron In Exile]

Roger Taney.

I think youre wrong.

I expected Roberts to cave but what I didnt expect is for him to steer the TITANIC into the iceberg. The TITANIC looks OK for now, people are startled and shaken but what he did is fatal to government tyranny; government cannot use the Commerce Clause to compel obedience. That door is now shut for a long time to come.

So far George Will agrees with me. I expect more will agree once they think about what happened today. Its fatal to government overreach.

Yeah...

"Tax for not owning a Prius: $708.56"

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

If you became chronically ill and needed long-term care while uninsured, would you be okay with medical facilities turning you away? And insurance companies denying you coverage because you're expensive?

No. We think it is much better for the Government to tell the companies to give you pain medication and end of life counseling so that younger, more productive TAXPAYERS can get the care they need.

:nods:


We have already seen that the close interdependence of all economic phenomena makes it difficult to stop planning just where we wish and that, once the free working of the market is impeded beyond a certain degree, the planner will be forced to extend his control until they become all-comprehensive. These economic considerations, which explain why it is impossible to stop deliberate control just where we would wish, are strongly reinforced by certain social or political tendencies whose strength makes itself increasingly felt as planning extends.

Once it becomes increasingly true, and is generally recognized, that the position of the individual is determined not by impersonal forces, not as a result of the competitive efforts of many, but by the deliberate decision of authority; the attitude of the people towards their position in the social order necessarily changes. There will always exist inequalities which appear just to those who suffer, disappointments which will appear unmerited, and strokes of misfortune which those hit have not deserved. But when these things occur in a society which is consciously directed, they way in which people will react will be very different from what it is when they are nobody's conscious choice.
From Who, Whom?
FA Hayek, Road to Serfdom, Chapter eight p. 137

 

[Byron In Exile]

As I heard it this afternoon the IRS has no teeth to compel collection of the tax. I suspect they can keep your income tax refund, but they cant garnish wages or grab your assets or toss you in jail.

Are you joking?

They can garnish your wages and put a lien on your house at the same time.

The IRS is nothing but teeth.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Are you joking?

They can garnish your wages and put a lien on your house at the same time.

The IRS is nothing but teeth.

Maybe Roberts is joking, I quoted his take on legal penalties, and he says none.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Just a note to the esteemed barrister in our midst...

Lol...!

 

[mercury14]

No. We think it is much better for the Government to tell the companies to give you pain medication and end of life counseling so that younger, more productive TAXPAYERS can get the care they need.

It doesn't get any stupider than this, folks.

Obamacare beneficiaries are taxpayers, dunce.

 

[Byron In Exile]

My point to vetteman and friends is that you can sit here and moan all day but Individual Mandate exists because their party brought it into play.

It always sounded suspiciously like a Republican idea to me.

 

[mercury14]

Maybe Roberts is joking, I quoted his take on legal penalties, and he says none.

Think about it on your own?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

If all along, the angry voices on the Left were crying, "It's not a Tax increase..."



Will we need to go to Justice Roberts again and have him explain that yes, there are death panels?

(((LIPSTICK)))

 

[RobDownSouth]

If all along, the angry voices on the Left were crying, "It's not a Tax increase..."



Will we need to go to Justice Roberts again and have him explain that yes, there are death panels?

(((LIPSTICK)))

It's not a "tax increase" if you take personal responsibility for the health of your family.

Having said that, I realize, of course, that "personal responsibility" is anathema to a Glibertarian such as yourself.

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It doesn't get any stupider than this, folks.

Obamacare beneficiaries are taxpayers, dunce.

Hey, stupider than everyone here...

The government decides what the beneficiary gets in the name of saving costs and if your little hypothetical up there is run before the iPAB, they're going to say PAIN MEDS and COUNSELING not cure him at any cost.

Of course, as long as you're healthy, why the fuck should you care and once you get sick, why the fuck should any of the rest of us care? After all, you'll only be getting that which you demanded, to take the decision away from you and your insurer and give it to the gods of govenrnment.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Byron In Exile]

Everyone is going to engage in housing and everyone is going to engage in eating and everyone is going to engage in education, so if you don't do ANY of these the way King George wants you to, he can tax you.

That appears to be the upshot.

Welcome to Humanity. This is hour One.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Hey, stupider than everyone here...

The government decides what the beneficiary gets in the name of saving costs and if your little hypothetical up there is run before the iPAB, they're going to say PAIN MEDS and COUNSELING not cure him at any cost.

Of course, as long as you're healthy, why the fuck should you care and once you get sick, why the fuck should any of the rest of us care? After all, you'll only be getting that which you demanded, to take the decision away from you and your insurer and give it to the gods of govenrnment.

^^^ Swallowed Sarah Palin's "death panel" rhetoric hook line and sinker.

Damn the facts, full smears ahead!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That's bullshit, get the fuck out of town.

Hey, they can scream and lie all they want, but in the end, the truth comes out, as it did yesterday.

Despite two solid years of Merc patiently trying to explain to us how Obama's little targeted tax cuts had made us wealthier, it was actually the largest tax hike in our history falling silently upon our shoulders.

We're ALL Sisyphus now...

 

[RobDownSouth]

Hey, they can scream and lie all they want, but in the end, the truth comes out, as it did yesterday.

Despite two solid years of Merc patiently trying to explain to us how Obama's little targeted tax cuts had made us wealthier, it was actually the largest tax hike in our history falling silently upon our shoulders.

We're ALL Sisyphus now...

No "tax hike" for those already taking personal responsibility for their health and the health of their family!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Let's have the clown explain his whole fucking decision. You can't regulate inactivity, but you can tax it.

That appears to be the upshot.

Welcome to Humanity. This is hour One.

Include those pennies on your eyes...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I just looked at the IRS enforcement powers for the mandate-tax, and it seems clear that IRS cant do much. Theres an 18 month grace period before IRS can even assess your obligation, per event. IRS cant jail you, cant garnish your pay, cant confiscate your assets. All thats left is phone harassment, and maybe a lien, but it doesnt specify what gets liened or if it will lien you.

Prolly just nasty bill-collectors calling all the time.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I just looked at the IRS enforcement powers for the mandate-tax, and it seems clear that IRS cant do much. Theres an 18 month grace period before IRS can even assess your obligation, per event. IRS cant jail you, cant garnish your pay, cant confiscate your assets. All thats left is phone harassment, and maybe a lien, but it doesnt specify what gets liened or if it will lien you.

Prolly just nasty bill-collectors calling all the time.

If you want teeth in it, VOTE DEMOCRAT and ask them for another mandate!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Think about it on your own?

Roberts entire opinion seems pretty clear and particular. He took pains to discredit all of Ginzburgs senile rants. He made a point of admonishing her for using obscure and rare definitions that didnt exist at the time the Constitution was framed.

Looks like Roberts handed the assclowns turtle shell but no turtle meat.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Vote Democrat!

Vote for TAXES!

YEAH!!!

The lesson of ObamaCare remains the same as it’s been since the Democrats used exotic parliamentary maneuvers to pass it: success for a political movement lies in passing what you can, however you can, whenever you can, and on whatever basis is at hand. The presumption granted to facts on the ground–argumentatively and politically–is worth whatever short-term hits parties and movements take to their credibility. Once a law is passed, its proponents get to paint any change as upsetting rather than restoring the status quo. That’s how House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi could declare that ObamaCare had moved from a privilege to a right, with the New York Times insisting we have to let existing laws work. Meanwhile, liberals gained a strange new respect for judicial modesty, which was to be enforced by intimidation from the president and his water-carriers.

That presumption played out in the Court’s decision which, once you get past the literally surreal declaration that ObamaCare is a tax, isn’t terrible. Congress does have nearly unlimited taxation power, more or less by design. Judicial checks were erected, meanwhile, to limit expansive congressional mischief conducted under the umbrella of its enumerated powers.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/06/28/lesson-of-obamacare-get-it-passed/

What about that radical rw Court?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Roberts entire opinion seems pretty clear and particular. He took pains to discredit all of Ginzburgs senile rants. He made a point of admonishing her for using obscure and rare definitions that didnt exist at the time the Constitution was framed.

Looks like Roberts handed the assclowns turtle shell but no turtle meat.

You might find this interesting:

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/...on-the-mandate-originally-a-majority-opinion/