Are there books as erotic as my writing?

[TxRad]

I don't know who published Twilight but Random house may have picked up 50 shades to compete or to use Twilight as a stepping stone.

In any case someone recognized a cash cow when they saw it.

 

[PennLady]

I don't know who published Twilight but Random house may have picked up 50 shades to compete or to use Twilight as a stepping stone.

In any case someone recognized a cash cow when they saw it.

Twilight was published by Little, Brown Books for Young Readers, according to the listing on Amazon. I'm sure Random House did pick it up to compete for readers.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't know who published Twilight but Random house may have picked up 50 shades to compete or to use Twilight as a stepping stone.

In any case someone recognized a cash cow when they saw it.

Every publisher hopes that every book they publish a cash cow. You just don't hear about the ones that don't let down their milk.

 

[TxRad]

Every publisher hopes that every book they publish a cash cow. You just don't hear about the ones that don't let down their milk.

I understand that.

My first couple of books were along the lines of 2%, more than whole milk.

The last series wasn't a NY best seller but it did better. A different target audience.

I'm hoping the two this year will be even better.

 

[sr71plt]

This leads me to another question however. Many people have claimed Shades is poorly written. PL even had a thread with a link to a blog that was ripping its grammar apart.

So question is, if its that poor why wouldn't Random house have edited it? Isn't that what they do?

Just seems odd.

I am a book editor for mainstream publishers. There are two types of editors in a publishing house--the content editor, usually the acquisitions editor, and the copyeditor. (I have done the former in house but now only do the latter as a freelancer.)

Any messing with the "written" aspect as you seem to mean it, is supposed to be done between the acquisitions editor and the author before the book is sent out for copyediting. The copyeditor is supposed to clean up what's there, not rewrite it or beef it up/trim it down--although the copyeditor can ask questions about failings they see in the content. Increasingly acquisitions editors are spending little time with the author recasting the book, just selecting "the best of the lot in the theme hole in next spring's catalog," buying it, and shoving it on to the manuscript department. Only a few "good potential" authors are getting help in improving the manuscript--not the best seller authors, because no one wants to fight with them over telling them their book could be a bit better and not with the "it will do" authors, whose books are just being shoved through to maintain sales volume (and because "the readers don't care that much about quality anymore anyway.")

The copyeditor the book is sent out to is given x-number of hours to do what they can and have it back by x date. Since not all that many leave school literate any more and since there are so many "it will do" books coming through the channels, the copyeditor only goes "so far" down from the tip of the iceberg in cleaning the book up and then it's out the door.

The whole layers of in-house manuscript editors to go through the manuscript picking out the glaring issues, both in content and style, who used to do a pass both before and after the manuscript was sent to copyediting in addition to the proofreading phase in house are gone, having died when the need to keep the cost of books down slammed up against production costs and inflation.

And when you selected a book because you are trying to counter or ride on the tail of something already out there and soaking up money from that audience, you speed up your production time--and start tossing out timeouts for rechecks.

 

[lovecraftsworld]

I am a book editor for mainstream publishers. There are two types of editors in a publishing house--the content editor, usually the acquisitions editor, and the copyeditor. (I have done the former in house but now only do the latter as a freelancer.)

Any messing with the "written" aspect as you seem to mean it, is supposed to be done between the acquisitions editor and the author before the book is sent out for copyediting. The copyeditor is supposed to clean up what's there, not rewrite it or beef it up/trim it down--although the copyeditor can ask questions about failings they see in the content. Increasingly acquisitions editors are spending little time with the author recasting the book, just selecting "the best of the lot in the theme hole in next spring's catalog," buying it, and shoving it on to the manuscript department. Only a few "good potential" authors are getting help in improving the manuscript--not the best seller authors, because no one wants to fight with them over telling them their book could be a bit better and not with the "it will do" authors, whose books are just being shoved through to maintain sales volume (and because "the readers don't care that much about quality anymore anyway.")

The copyeditor the book is sent out to is given x-number of hours to do what they can and have it back by x date. Since not all that many leave school literate any more and since there are so many "it will do" books coming through the channels, the copyeditor only goes "so far" down from the tip of the iceberg in cleaning the book up and then it's out the door.

The whole layers of in-house manuscript editors to go through the manuscript picking out the glaring issues, both in content and style, who used to do a pass both before and after the manuscript was sent to copyediting in addition to the proofreading phase in house are gone, having died when the need to keep the cost of books down slammed up against production costs and inflation.

And when you selected a book because you are trying to counter or ride on the tail of something already out there and soaking up money from that audience, you speed up your production time--and start tossing out timeouts for rechecks.

That's a lot of info, thanks.

I think in this case your last statement rings true.

and yes I forgot to slip out of alt mode again. Wow I'm bad at this.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

What is "quality literary" exactly?

It is writing in which plot and characters matter, as do themes, symbolism, resonance, continuity, and like concerns.

I wasted a heck of a lot of time a while back reformatting files to send off to various 'erotica' publishers. You wouldn't believe (or maybe you would, but I certainly couldn't believe) the idiotic nonsense I got back from them. Now, I realize that's to some extent a matter of editors and publishers skimming a few pages and then thinking that they have useful or worthwhile ideas about a story. But it was clear to me from their 'observations' that they had little, if any, grasp of what the stories were about. I had one tell me how there was just too darned much 'backstory'. I realize the English language translation of 'too much backstory' is: 'Shit, we don't need to know anything about these characters. Just get to the fucking and sucking'. I didn't have the heart to write back (and the gesture would have been futile in any event) to explain that some 'backstory' is necessary to develop and flesh out real characters, as opposed to cardboard cutouts, and to establish real setting and set the plate for a real plot. I don't see it as my job to school editors and publishers in writing, editing, and literary expression and values, although, God knows, they are in desperate need.

Anyway, I came away from the experience monumentally unimpressed with the professional skills and discernment of erotica 'editor' and 'publishers'.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Anyway, I came away from the experience monumentally unimpressed with the professional skills and discernment of erotica 'editor' and 'publishers'.

There must be a commercial niche out there somewhere for character-driven erotica. When I first started posting on Lit I was expecting to get downvoted for making people read through pages and pages of character development to get to the sex, but judging by the feedback there are readers who are crying out for exactly that.

 

[lovecraft68]

There must be a commercial niche out there somewhere for character-driven erotica. When I first started posting on Lit I was expecting to get downvoted for making people read through pages and pages of character development to get to the sex, but judging by the feedback there are readers who are crying out for exactly that.

I agree, I've gotten good scores across the boards and a lot of positive feedback on my stories having build up.

Especially surprising was getting that kind of response in incest which I always saw a notorious stroke category. But so far many enjoy the way I go out of my way to "Justify" the taboo sex

 

[BONNIEBREA]

There must be a commercial niche out there somewhere for character-driven erotica. When I first started posting on Lit I was expecting to get downvoted for making people read through pages and pages of character development to get to the sex, but judging by the feedback there are readers who are crying out for exactly that.

I've found the same thing you did. Readers who like my stories really like them, and there certainly is a market for quality literary writing in the erotica genre.

I can only speak to my specific experiences. Of course, from my perspective I have to ask the question why I'd want to publish with these people. They can't even recognize good literary writing, so how are they ever going to marketing it?

But I went into the experience naively thinking these people had a clue about writing, so it was a surprise (and a very large one) to discover they don't.

I had three publishing offers. One place offered too low a royalty rate. With the other two they wanted very significant changes that would have had the effect of dumbing down the stories and taking out the literary components (You know: 'Can't you get rid of all this 'backstory' and just get to the fucking and sucking?')

I'm not entirely opposed to publishing with a publisher, but I can't image where I'd find one with the first clue about writing or a willingness to present quality writing to that market clamoring for it, or the kind of search I'd have to mount to find that outfit. Anyway, the upshot is that at this point I'm beyond relieved that I didn't sign away the publishing rights to my stories to any of these bozos.

 

[lance gt]

There must be a commercial niche out there somewhere for character-driven erotica. When I first started posting on Lit I was expecting to get downvoted for making people read through pages and pages of character development to get to the sex, but judging by the feedback there are readers who are crying out for exactly that.

It doesn't matter which type of reader reads my stories, they all say the same thing, Don't mess with the characters. They like the romance more than the sex and the episodes they get into, are either fun to horrifying, so that human drama is there. I realized it after the third chapter, which way this series was going to go. If it had good characters and plots for each chapter, it would have legs. As a straight up sex fest, it had one or two more chapters at best.

IMHO, erotica could go mainstream with good stories behind it and the writing up to snuff, for the readers clamouring for hotter sex and better plots.

 

[sr71plt]

Erotica publishers don't generally come from a publishing house past. Most of them started their publishing houses to publish their own (unedited) erotica.

 

[desertslave]

Crappy plots and storyline won't make the cut in the first place unless it is an old name author or something that the publisher thinks will sell like hotcakes.

I'm reminded of Laurell K. Hamilton's two series, one about vamipres, etc, one about the fey. I honestly loved the first several Anita Blake books...I recommended to them to many friends and counted the days until the next book was released. They started out having a degree of soft porn (a la bodice rippers), but the sex rapidly escalated in the last 6 or 7 books (I think she's on #15 now). The sex was well-written and very hot (IMO), but the plot-to-sex ratio quickly went to hell. So much so that I've sworn off the series for the last 4 books. I quit, I'd had enough, because there wasn't enough plot driving the books anymore. If I wanted to read endless sex scenes with a seemingly-endless combination of people (all while our heroine keeps protesting that she's a nice girl and doesn't really want to do all of this ), I can just come to Lit and quit paying for hardbacks (because, while they were still good, I could never stand to wait for a paperback).

All things considered, I'm honestly amazed that her publisher has continued to keep her on. But she brings in the bucks so I guess they're willing to just close their eyes and think of England.

 

[sr71plt]

You're still buying hardbacks?

 

[PennLady]

I'm reminded of Laurell K. Hamilton's two series, one about vamipres, etc, one about the fey.

Somewhere I think I have a trilogy of Hamilton's that I think I got from the Science Fiction Book Club a long time ago. I read it and... never read any more. Part of me felt like I should -- female author, fantasy-type series, etc. But geez, I didn't like Anita Blake. Just a whole lot of walking indecision. Good to know I didn't miss much by not reading any further.

Another series that I thought got worse as it went on was Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality. Definitely a matter of more sex, less plot, and lousy stories. Pity, b/c the overall idea was interesting.

 

[PennLady]

You're still buying hardbacks?

LOL Occasionally, but usually when they've hit the remainder table.

 

[sr71plt]

LOL Occasionally, but usually when they've hit the remainder table.

Even then, they become albatrosses around my house. Paperbacks I seem to have no trouble shoving on. Hardbacks hide and refuse to leave.

 

[lovecraft68]

LOL Occasionally, but usually when they've hit the remainder table.

Don't blame you. I wouldn't consider myself cheap, but when my wife bought me the hardcover of the newest Donaldson book and I saw she paid $25 for it, I was appalled.