Story Help! BDSM question!

[LaSalia]

So.... I want to write a BDSM story about training a pet, and I was thinking about writing it in the 2nd person, with a little bit of a "how to" theme, but subtle. Would that still appeal to the general BDSM audience?

Also not in the BDSM life, still researching for the story, any pets or masters with some ideas, I'd love it!

 

[Scotsman69]

I have a friend who is an internationally-known novelist. When several years ago, I told him I'd started writing, he looked me in the eye and said:

'Write about what you know'.

 

[paisleyavenger]

where's primalex when he's needed?
but really, Mr Scotsman nailed it. My two cents is that it would probably not be so enjoyable for a BDSM persona to read a how to (even subtle) distilled from (im guessing) internet sources.
good luck though.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Those of us who know 'how to'-- know, and those of us who 'know how' and write --write a hella lotta 'how to.'

Those of us who don't know 'how to' should not get their knowledge from someone who also doesn't actually know 'how to.'

When you talk about training a pet, what do you have in mind?

 

[submissive_fire]

I have a friend who is an internationally-known novelist. When several years ago, I told him I'd started writing, he looked me in the eye and said:

'Write about what you know'.

Exactly.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Now guys, the truth is "Write what you know" is not quite applicable. I have no doubt that LaSalla knows hir version of petplay well enough to write it, and may do it damn well.

And maybe "how to" is not quite what you meant? "first time" maybe?

 

[Cattypuss]

I have a friend who is an internationally-known novelist. When several years ago, I told him I'd started writing, he looked me in the eye and said:

'Write about what you know'.

I think this is an over-used piece of advice - and I think it only has any real merit when interpreted widely. For example, I'd say that someone who knows nothing about the Wild West but who knows a lot about what it's like to be alone in a dangerous environment, trying to survive and prosper, could write a very compelling story about a person trying to survive and prosper in the Wild West, as long as they did their research. I'd say that that person would be "writing what they know".

 

[Scotsman69]

I agree. It's less about the physical framework - that CAN be learned by diligent research, if the writer has the ability. A substantial proportion of the world's literature wouldn't have been written otherwise.

But what's INSIDE the head? It helps if you know what you're talking about. And 95% of BDSM is inside the head.

 

[Cattypuss]

I agree. It's less about the physical framework - that CAN be learned by diligent research, if the writer has the ability. A substantial proportion of the world's literature wouldn't have been written otherwise.

But what's INSIDE the head? It helps if you know what you're talking about. And 95% of BDSM is inside the head.

Very fair point

 

[ecstaticsub]

This is somewhat of a hijack but I was chatting with a friend the other day about this subject and the question of whether a virgin could convincingly write a hot sexual scene in erotica. If one reads enough erotica would that be enough to overcome having absolutely no real life sexual experience?

 

[Scotsman69]

hmmm... maybe

But only if the virgin had some experience of sex... and a very good imagination. Personally, I have seldom tried to write any sex in my stories that I haven't personally experienced. Except of course when I try to write from the woman's POV - but that is always on the basis that I know the woman who is the muse for the story.

This is somewhat of a hijack but I was chatting with a friend the other day about this subject and the question of whether a virgin could convincingly write a hot sexual scene in erotica. If one reads enough erotica would that be enough to overcome having absolutely no real life sexual experience?

 

[missgiter]

I'm -really- new to BDSM. However, in my writing experience... if we all had experienced everything we wrote about, stories would be quite dull. Most good writing is done with a huge bit of imagination, a great bit of research and some personal inspiration to tie ends together. While I realize writing erotica is quite a bit different (Although a writer, I haven't ventured this far yet. I'm still working over some mental details before I get started).. I would imagine that one could achieve success without experiencing it all. Then again, I could be completely and horridly wrong in this. But alas, that's my opinion.
-a

 

[LaSalia]

Okay, so perhaps I need to explain a little more clearly.

I was more interested in whether the BDSM community would respond to a story written in second person perspective, using "you" instead of "I" or "he/she/it." As the story would be about a man who was training his new pet (it would be his first time with a pet, and her first time with a master) it would sound a little like a how-to. I know that everyone approaches training differently and my research has been to talk to people who know, and then use my own interests to play the scene in a way that I would hope it would go if I were enjoying it. More or less. I feel confident in being able to do a pet/master relationship, as far as the head games go, it's just that I don't know if second person is the best perspective for the audience. I like the idea myself, and it's how I really want to write it, but I know second person perspective is challenging some times.

Okay. Go.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I was more interested in whether the BDSM community would respond to a story written in second person perspective, using "you" instead of "I" or "he/she/it." As the story would be about a man who was training his new pet (it would be his first time with a pet, and her first time with a master) it would sound a little like a how-to. I know that everyone approaches training differently and my research has been to talk to people who know, and then use my own interests to play the scene in a way that I would hope it would go if I were enjoying it. More or less. I feel confident in being able to do a pet/master relationship, as far as the head games go, it's just that I don't know if second person is the best perspective for the audience. I like the idea myself, and it's how I really want to write it, but I know second person perspective is challenging some times.

Okay. Go.

I personally hate with a passion any erotica written in second person. When I am reading anything, but especially erotica, I imagine myself there watching. If the writer is telling me "You get on your knees and do XYZ" but XYZ is not something I would do or would find hot if I did it, I would immediately be turned off. However, if I was reading "She got on her knees and did XYZ" even if XYZ wasn't something I wouldn't do, watching someone else do it would still be hot. Even if it wasn't hot to me I could easily gloss over it and go to the next paragraph. That is not so easily done with the second person.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've got a second-person vignette over on lj that is getting a big fat duckegg in responses, except for people who have said "I can't read second-person porn" for the same reasons that ecstaticsub has given.

But-- give it a shot! Personally, I've become more used to second person, on account of the webcomic Homestuck, and all the fanworks based on it.

 

[Netzach]

This is somewhat of a hijack but I was chatting with a friend the other day about this subject and the question of whether a virgin could convincingly write a hot sexual scene in erotica. If one reads enough erotica would that be enough to overcome having absolutely no real life sexual experience?

I think they could, but it would have to be about what they know. Which is possibly huge frustration and restraint. It could be the kind of person they're most attracted to. It could be about a character who is completely sexually averse. It would have to be about the intersections of sex yes/no.

I think virgins could write the best fetish erotica of all. I try to channel my inner virgin when I'm in fetish mode.

 

[Netzach]

For successful erotic second persons look at Marguerite Duras and Jeanette Winterson.

Jay McInerney does it, too, in Bright Lights Big City and somehow it works.

If you're not remotely that good, leave off it.

 

[dexwebster]

This is somewhat of a hijack but I was chatting with a friend the other day about this subject and the question of whether a virgin could convincingly write a hot sexual scene in erotica. If one reads enough erotica would that be enough to overcome having absolutely no real life sexual experience?

Absolutely. Written erotica, technical research, visual aids are all helpful. In my experience, careful attention to your body is more important. You can be sexually inexperienced and know what arousal and orgasm feel like, or the physical, sensual details of a hand gripping your wrist, hair tickling skin.

Degree of difficulty also depends on how exactly you define a virgin, and what kind of sex scene they're writing.

 

[missgiter]

It's really a toss up chance to write in the second person. I think -most- people enjoy reading erotica as the same as "watching the scene". It depends on the story if I personally enjoy reading in the second person. It can be done well, but it's really a readers choice. If that's the way you want to write it, do it. You can always do a second edit later and change it.

And then, it comes down to your writing skills. If you are a skilled writer, go for it. If you aren't.. well maybe it's better to stick to something a bit more versatile. But, it's really your story and how you want to write it.. so I say go for it. I'd love to read it when you are finished

 

[LaSalia]

I know for a fact it can be done!

This is somewhat of a hijack but I was chatting with a friend the other day about this subject and the question of whether a virgin could convincingly write a hot sexual scene in erotica. If one reads enough erotica would that be enough to overcome having absolutely no real life sexual experience?

My hubby and I spent a lot of time online when we started dating (high school during the age of AOL chatrooms... LOL!) and I was a virgin for a LOT of that initial relationship, him too. But we more than made up for it during our online role playing and over the phone sometimes. I read lots of romance novels, which is where I drew most of my inspiration (good steamy, historical and sci-fi ones, not the cheese) and men, of course, tend to gravitate towards porn... It was hot, I sometimes still chat him up when we're both on our laptops.

If you are a passionate person, and can write legibly, then experience is not necessary, although it helps a lot with detailing how a person responds to the other details. But anyone whose even just felt turned on can give a description that would be good enough for the general reader.

 

[LaSalia]

Second Edit?

It's really a toss up chance to write in the second person. I think -most- people enjoy reading erotica as the same as "watching the scene". It depends on the story if I personally enjoy reading in the second person. It can be done well, but it's really a readers choice. If that's the way you want to write it, do it. You can always do a second edit later and change it.

And then, it comes down to your writing skills. If you are a skilled writer, go for it. If you aren't.. well maybe it's better to stick to something a bit more versatile. But, it's really your story and how you want to write it.. so I say go for it. I'd love to read it when you are finished

You've piqued my curiosity... the second edits, do they get reposted to the "New" section? I swear nothing gets read after it's no longer on that ten newest list...

I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of writing in 2nd person. I've got a story in the incest section that involves non-consent between father, brothers and sister in the beginning and is slowly working its way into a love story when the long lost brother rescues his sister. It's not really low rated, but there are some people who were so angry that it wasn't a love story that they voted 1 and threw it off. It's a Cinderella story and apparently I've ruined a few childhoods. The comment boxes were funny, in hind sight, I shouldn't have deleted them... Anyhow! It's primarily an incest story, the non-consent and touch of BDSM is all just consequential. But the rating is being sabotaged. It's frustrating. If I write in 2nd person I'm thinking I'll get the same results: people getting annoyed and scrolling to the end to vote 1 instead of just going (eew, don't like this style!) and hitting the back button.

People are awfully spiteful for a FICTION site!

 

[Bramblethorn]

You've piqued my curiosity... the second edits, do they get reposted to the "New" section? I swear nothing gets read after it's no longer on that ten newest list...

No, they don't get reposted. But if you post another story, you'll probably get traffic back to the first one as a result.

I've enjoyed some second-person stuff, but I do find it harder to get into. If an author writes "Jo knelt before Susan", my reaction is 'tell me more'. If they write "You kneel before me", my reaction is more likely to be "no I fucking don't".

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Porn is idealized sex. It's not usually very realistic at all. People screw with no protection, tie women with their hands above their heads for hours on end, go from anal to vaginal with no problem, get turned on by being raped, and other bullshit. Porn writers write what they wish, not what they know.

If writers only wrote what they knew, there'd be no Twilight or Sci Fi, would there?

But DON'T write in second person! That's the sure sign of a beginner. Despite what you might think, no one really likes being the "you" in an "I/you" story and being told what they do and what they think and feel. Write in first- or third-person or don't bother.

 

[Stella_Omega]

go from anal to vaginal with no problem

Um really? Maybe, men write it. Do women ever write that? Even a non-internet-having total virgin is going to know that she doesn't want that smelly poopy stuff anywhere near her vajayjay. Her mother taught her to wipe from front to back, after all.

Despite what you might think, no one really likes being the "you" in an "I/you" story and being told what they do and what they think and feel. Write in first- or third-person or don't bother.

Did you know that there are thousands of second-person erotic stories inspired by homestuck? As a result, I've written a second-person vignette elsewhere that got mild approval-- readers are becoming used to the mode.

I wouldn't offer it at lit, though.

 

[Netzach]

I'm more into Marguerite Duras than ass/cunt dissolve cuts. This is why I can find no porn.