Fifty Shades of Grey

[lovecraft68]

To continue with your sweeping generalisation, Women consume porn they can see as well -- usually not the same stuff that men consume, which means that they have to produce it and share it amongst themselves, which is why you mostly don't see it commercially.

And you are right, it's stuff that allows their minds to enter into the image. (Such as Yaoi manga from Japan --which can get incredibly hardcore, by the way)

I actually prefer "porn for women"

For as rough as I can be, when I watch porn I like to see the woman being enjoyed, rather than it just being "hole to hole" and that's about it.

Viv Thomas is a good sight as is X-art

 

[RjThoughts]

To continue with your sweeping generalisation, Women consume porn they can see as well -- usually not the same stuff that men consume, which means that they have to produce it and share it amongst themselves, which is why you mostly don't see it commercially.

And you are right, it's stuff that allows their minds to enter into the image. (Such as Yaoi manga from Japan --which can get incredibly hardcore, by the way)

It's more of a marketing generalization. I've noticed that, before this 50 Shades of Twilightfanfictioncrap, novels written specifically were more wordy, for a like of an anology. Softcore, hardcore, fetish, all, the descriptions are better in woman's lit, while men it's action, action, action.

 

[lovecraft68]

It's more of a marketing generalization. I've noticed that, before this 50 Shades of Twilightfanfictioncrap, novels written specifically were more wordy, for a like of an anology. Softcore, hardcore, fetish, all, the descriptions are better in woman's lit, while men it's action, action, action.

Because women, much more than the average man, fuck with their mind as much as their body. Guys its tab A into slot B women its everything that the tab and slot are attached too as well.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Because women, much more than the average man, fuck with their mind as much as their body. Guys its tab A into slot B women its everything that the tab and slot are attached too as well.

Well put.

As far as rough goes?

rape, noncon, grudgefucking, torture, maiming, vore, slavery, you name it, women write it. And draw it.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Because women, much more than the average man, fuck with their mind as much as their body. Guys its tab A into slot B women its everything that the tab and slot are attached too as well.[/QUOTE]

I think that's because guys have more imagination - they'll do a better job at filling in the blanks. "Oh yeah, she likes this... she's really into this..." Never noticing the difference between her mouth being opened in a passionate, silent gasp versus a yawn.

I had a female friend once who told me the only porn she watched was when the woman squirted. Not because she was into squirting, but because she knew it meant the woman was really having an orgasm.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well put.

As far as rough goes?

rape, noncon, grudgefucking, torture, maiming, vore, slavery, you name it, women write it. And draw it.

That they do, as fantasy of course. My wife has had me "jump" her out in the yard and put it to her pretty good.

I tied her to a tree once, when the next door neighbors(the only ones who could see into our yard) were away.

We had just finished when the sensor light came on and there daughter who we didn't know was watching the house pulled in.

That would have been fun to explain the cops.

 

[RjThoughts]

Because women, much more than the average man, fuck with their mind as much as their body. Guys its tab A into slot B women its everything that the tab and slot are attached too as well.[/QUOTE]

I think that's because guys have more imagination - they'll do a better job at filling in the blanks. "Oh yeah, she likes this... she's really into this..." Never noticing the difference between her mouth being opened in a passionate, silent gasp versus a yawn.

I had a female friend once who told me the only porn she watched was when the woman squirted. Not because she was into squirting, but because she knew it meant the woman was really having an orgasm.

I doubt that statement.

 

[lovecraft68]

I doubt that statement.

Doubt all you want. Key is I said average guy, I would think many on a site like this (especially writers) are going to deviate from that norm.

Men generalize women all the time, I will generalize them. The average guy doesn't have a clue except he expects to do nothing, yet have his wife act like a porn star (with no incentive to do so)

Trust me, back in my early 20's when I was a real asshole I took advantage of that inadequacy and made many bored housewives quite happy.

Men's inattention in the bedroom is what helps things like Shades sell. Everyone fantasizes to different degrees, but when women need this stuff as escapism its because they want Mr. Gray because they married Mr vanilla.

 

[lovecraft68]

Because women, much more than the average man, fuck with their mind as much as their body. Guys its tab A into slot B women its everything that the tab and slot are attached too as well.[/QUOTE]

I think that's because guys have more imagination - they'll do a better job at filling in the blanks. "Oh yeah, she likes this... she's really into this..." Never noticing the difference between her mouth being opened in a passionate, silent gasp versus a yawn.

I had a female friend once who told me the only porn she watched was when the woman squirted. Not because she was into squirting, but because she knew it meant the woman was really having an orgasm.

Share the names of those guys to the women who are looking for them. Again, if I recall you're in a swinging lifestyle, Of course you deal with men who are more sexual than the average.

My point is to not look at that or the shit we write here and who we deal with here. Just think of your average person.

Or are all unsatisfied women, just asking too much? Because there's a lot of them out there.

 

[lovecraft68]

Wow, lit is being really fucked up here. I somehow just quoted myself trying to quote Bucky.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think that's because guys have more imagination - they'll do a better job at filling in the blanks. "Oh yeah, she likes this... she's really into this..." Never noticing the difference between her mouth being opened in a passionate, silent gasp versus a yawn.

I would call that less imagination, not more.

maybe it's a question of what we use our imagination for.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Wow, lit is being really fucked up here. I somehow just quoted myself trying to quote Bucky.

Either way, LC, I think you're on the right track and caught the male-bashing intent of my original post. I know my words don't apply to ALL men - but enough of them that the few good guys in the world are forever stuck in the shadows leftover from the assholes.

I know women who won't date bodybuilders because they don't want to be with a man who spends more time looking in the mirror than they do looking at them and I get that. Now don't get it twisted, many of these same women enjoy LOOKING at the bodybuilders and fantasizing about them - but they know they would be disappointed.

I think you and I may have travelled similar paths.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Men's inattention in the bedroom is what helps things like Shades sell. Everyone fantasizes to different degrees, but when women need this stuff as escapism its because they want Mr. Gray because they married Mr vanilla.

From the shades thread in the BDSM cafe:

whats so important about this (poorly written but hella entertaining) book is that it is relieving women of the idea that submission is bad and only for people with low self esteem. also, that women are talking about erotica! FINALLY

so i read all 3 books in about 2 weeks and it changed my life and outlook completely. i've been a horny mess every since.

so i'm all for putting aside literary expectations and having a joy ride via these books.

and christian is one of the sexiest men in print. many men could learn from this book too!

Emphasis hers.
Now-- when I asked her what she wanted men to learn, she hasn't answered that. But as she says, the book has enabled her to talk about erotica at all.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I would call that less imagination, not more.

maybe it's a question of what we use our imagination for.

You may be right, Stella. Less empathy, that's for sure. More imagination and less wisdom? Fuck if I know. I'm not about to bash my gender over and over again (and as one of us, you damn well shouldn't let me).

But hey, whatever gets you through the night, I guess. Anytime there's a dick size reference made in my direction, my comment is always the same, "It reaches everywhere I need for it to reach." Good enough for me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You may be right, Stella. Less empathy, that's for sure. More imagination and less wisdom? Fuck if I know. I'm not about to bash my gender over and over again (and as one of us, you damn well shouldn't let me).

But hey, whatever gets you through the night, I guess. Anytime there's a dick size reference made in my direction, my comment is always the same, "It reaches everywhere I need for it to reach." Good enough for me.

And I think that there are a lot of men who prefer "women's porn, and some of that has got to rub off.

heh heh I said "rub off."

 

[lovecraft68]

Either way, LC, I think you're on the right track and caught the male-bashing intent of my original post. I know my words don't apply to ALL men - but enough of them that the few good guys in the world are forever stuck in the shadows leftover from the assholes.

I know women who won't date bodybuilders because they don't want to be with a man who spends more time looking in the mirror than they do looking at them and I get that. Now don't get it twisted, many of these same women enjoy LOOKING at the bodybuilders and fantasizing about them - but they know they would be disappointed.

I think you and I may have travelled similar paths.

I had the advantage of being "trained" at a young age by a much older woman. In between all the BDSM games when there were nights we would just have fun. She told me a very simple rule most men cannot seem to understand(or in some cases do not want to)

You get what you give. You want your woman to be your little porno queen, your little whore? Than be hers. You take your time you treat her well you get her off good and hard and they will be more than happy to reciprocate.

And that my friends starts before the bedroom. Little things go a long way. Opneing the car door, complimenting the appearence, letting them order first and more importantly these days? Stay off your fucking phone and pay attention to the lady.

let her know she is the focus of your undivided attention, she is the reason your there.

Its real easy guys. Hey maybe all that was a long winded way of saying respect who knows?

 

[lovecraft68]

From the shades thread in the BDSM cafe:
Emphasis hers.
Now-- when I asked her what she wanted men to learn, she hasn't answered that. But as she says, the book has enabled her to talk about erotica at all.

Its certainly a good "beginners tool" starting them off with something insanely hardcore might scare them off and close that door.

You know things like women being bent over a desk, whipped and fucked in the ass, while another woman rides their face.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A guy I know says that he starts foreplay during dinner.

That was good advice!

 

[lovecraft68]

A guy I know says that he starts foreplay during dinner.

That was good advice!

Exactly, the act of sex is the climax of the entire evening. The better the build up the better the end result.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Its certainly a good "beginners tool" starting them off with something insanely hardcore might scare them off and close that door.

You know things like women being bent over a desk, whipped and fucked in the ass, while another woman rides their face.

That's not first date material? Damn, no wonder I don't get any second dates!

Actually, though, you bring up an interesting thought about Shades - whether it inspires some BDSM play or not and what kind?

I don't know that it matters. If it gets people interested in more erotic writing, so much the better. What I'd like to see would be a series of books that start off as lightweight as Shades apparently does - something that could draw an audience. And then, in the next book, the reader "graduates" from "his manhood" to "his prick." And in the next book, "she craved his hard cock." Could be interesting to see how the vanilla population at large would react. Would the later books do as well?

 

[lovecraft68]

That's not first date material? Damn, no wonder I don't get any second dates!

Actually, though, you bring up an interesting thought about Shades - whether it inspires some BDSM play or not and what kind?

I don't know that it matters. If it gets people interested in more erotic writing, so much the better. What I'd like to see would be a series of books that start off as lightweight as Shades apparently does - something that could draw an audience. And then, in the next book, the reader "graduates" from "his manhood" to "his prick." And in the next book, "she craved his hard cock." Could be interesting to see who the vanilla population at large would react. Would the later books do as well?

I said this before, but will repeat it, because to me it is a glaring example of James total lack of experience in the field.

The girl would not say pussy. As a dom the first thing one would do is to make her say it. Constantly, I wouldn't let her go to the bathroom until she did. I would make her walk up to total strangers and say it.

But I have expectations of someone who has the experience to expect that. Maybe a lot of the bad reviews are from women who did expect more. Women are a far cry from the 1950's when they would be "bad women" if they read this dirty stuff.

I think the average woman no matter waht her experience level would expect the word Pussy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

From "meeting Robby"

What do you call it?"

"What?" I said breathlessly; her hands were sliding up my inner thighs toward 'it'.

"This, baby, what do you call it?" Her hands had found their target and were asking their own questions.

"Uh... Vagina?" I had a feeling this wasn't the answer she wanted and I was right. She threw herself over me, resting her considerable weight fully on me. One hand answered my prayers by staying were it was, while the other opened new avenues of inquiry on my neck and breasts. Robby began a language lesson.

"Look, baby. Doctors can say vagina -- what you got down there is your cunt." She grinned at my look of distaste. "Cu -- uunnt... Oh, you prissy little princess, you're a cunt. Yes, you are, you're a cooze." Her fingers demonstrated the words' meanings. "You think you got it all down, but you ain't fooling me, bitch -- let's hear you say it."

 

[lovecraft68]

From "meeting Robby"

Now THAT is what I'm talking about!

Love that story Stella! That's why you're on my favs page.

I'd have Anastasia approaching men in a club saying.

"Excuse me sir, I'm a dirty little pig who's not wearing panties and I would love it if you would check and see if my nasty little pussy is wet."

"And why would it be wet, my whore?" I ask from behind her.

Swallowing hard and blushing, Anastasia looked him in the eye as I had told her to do and responded.

"Because I'm a dirtly little slut and I love having men touch my....my pussy."

 

[PennLady]

I said this before, but will repeat it, because to me it is a glaring example of James total lack of experience in the field.

The girl would not say pussy. As a dom the first thing one would do is to make her say it. Constantly, I wouldn't let her go to the bathroom until she did. I would make her walk up to total strangers and say it.

But I have expectations of someone who has the experience to expect that. Maybe a lot of the bad reviews are from women who did expect more. Women are a far cry from the 1950's when they would be "bad women" if they read this dirty stuff.

I think the average woman no matter waht her experience level would expect the word Pussy.

LC -- she did not write this for you. She didn't even write it for me. She wrote it for herself and struck a chord with a lot of other people. No, she probably doesn't have any BDSM experience.

Did it ever occur to you that even the people who throwing the term "BDSM" around when reviewing and talking about this also don't know what it really means? You're placing a lot of blame and anger on a woman you don't even know for something that's not her fault.

You want a story where the dom makes the woman say pussy? Fine, write it (likely, you already have). The bad reviews of this seem (to me) to be more about the fact that it's poorly written and has a predictable and not-well-thought-out plot and not about whether Grey is acting like a proper dom. And for the woman, she's supposed to be a fairly inexperienced 22yo, so no, she probably wouldn't know what to expect. And yeah, I know about average ages for sex and all that and you know what? At 22, I wouldn't have know about this either; yes, I'd had sex by then, but it wasn't the main thing in my life and I didn't date or sleep with anyone for most of my twenties, nor read about it. Just b/c James' stuff doesn't match your experience doesn't mean it's wrong or inaccurate.

I think most of us here probably have a bit of a skewed perspective on a lot of sex and sexual things -- we read it, we write it, we read and write stuff that we might not even want to do ourselves. EL James and those who like 50SG may not be those people, and that's fine.

 

[lovecraft68]

LC -- she did not write this for you. She didn't even write it for me. She wrote it for herself and struck a chord with a lot of other people. No, she probably doesn't have any BDSM experience.

Did it ever occur to you that even the people who throwing the term "BDSM" around when reviewing and talking about this also don't know what it really means? You're placing a lot of blame and anger on a woman you don't even know for something that's not her fault.

You want a story where the dom makes the woman say pussy? Fine, write it (likely, you already have). The bad reviews of this seem (to me) to be more about the fact that it's poorly written and has a predictable and not-well-thought-out plot and not about whether Grey is acting like a proper dom. And for the woman, she's supposed to be a fairly inexperienced 22yo, so no, she probably wouldn't know what to expect. And yeah, I know about average ages for sex and all that and you know what? At 22, I wouldn't have know about this either; yes, I'd had sex by then, but it wasn't the main thing in my life and I didn't date or sleep with anyone for most of my twenties, nor read about it. Just b/c James' stuff doesn't match your experience doesn't mean it's wrong or inaccurate.

I think most of us here probably have a bit of a skewed perspective on a lot of sex and sexual things -- we read it, we write it, we read and write stuff that we might not even want to do ourselves. EL James and those who like 50SG may not be those people, and that's fine.

And I'm saying that is why its good for beginners. Part of my quote was that this is what I would have expected or anyone with experince would have. Perhaps that is the reason for some of the bad reviews.

It is too soft for some, but just right for others. Also if it is being considered BDSM-and some are touting it that way- it will get my reaction more often than not because people will buy it expecting more than what it contains.