Stuck on a story....toying with where...

[ottohauser1977]

....to take it.

Here's the problem. Patrice, a black man married to a white woman named Stacey, has been involved in the "down-low" lifestyle for some time now.

I initially planned to have him be bi and join his wife's new lovers in a poly/communal situation. However, I'm increasingly wondering if maybe Stacey is just a beard to him (or a womb, because other than knocking her up a couple of times, he hasn't shown much interest in her sexually). Looking back, I might need to revise a chapter or two. I think that Patrice is actually gay, not bi.

If I change that, it may make a significant difference. I'm also leaning toward the idea that Katie, Otto's wife, might decide to move in with her brother Desmond, with whom she is having an incestuous affair. Basically breaking a six-way poly arrangement up into two or three groups. Not sure. Still keeping Carlita (the hot Mexican neighbor) involved somehow, because Otto is not really cut out for monogamy.

Or Desmond might fall for Carlita and marry her, while Otto, Katie, and Stacey form a three-way marriage. Toying with that, since Katie doesn't really respect Des. She bosses him around, but she doesn't get that his being submissive makes him no less manly. She sometimes takes it too far. Perhaps they're better off being purely fraternal in their relationship.

Just some insights on the matter where I'm stuck. I wondered what you would think of it.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I think that I am very sorry for you that lit doesn't have a bisexual category.

We really need one, not for women, because EVERYONE knows that all women are bi (yuk) in erotica, but for the men. They really get left out. Mention a sexual relationship with a woman in GM, and your story wont get liked very much, mention a sexual relationship between two men in anywhere else and get trolled to within an inch of your life.

Good luck with the story, I have no ideas, but you certainly are brave for taking it in this direction, knowing the response you might get.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree, this belongs in the still-nonexistent bisexual men category.

Judging from the numbers of men who visit the GLBT forum and talk about their wives, it would be a very popular category.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Thanks for the comments, but I'm seriously still struggling over this issue. What to do about Patrice? Gay or bi?

 

[sr71plt]

You might try writing two stories, a bit different, and going in each of the ways. Beyond that, you are the author, aren't you? Aren't these questions part of an author's creative process for their own work?

 

[ottohauser1977]

You might try writing two stories, a bit different, and going in each of the ways. Beyond that, you are the author, aren't you? Aren't these questions part of an author's creative process for their own work?

Yes, but I wanted an objective, impartial critique. Another voice.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, but I wanted an objective, impartial critique. Another voice.

Here you will only get 3,000 voices, most saying something diametrically opposed to each other--very few with any sense of what is better than anything else for good reason. That's why you won't find much fiction written by committee--certainly not much fiction worth anything.

And that would be my objective, impartial critique.

Try it both ways, if you really can't decide. Do your own work. Gobs more pride of ownership and accomplishment in that.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Here you will only get 3,000 voices, most saying something diametrically opposed to each other--very few with any sense of what is better than anything else for good reason. That's why you won't find much fiction written by committee--certainly not much fiction worth anything.

And that would be my objective, impartial critique.

Try it both ways, if you really can't decide. Do your own work. Gobs more pride of ownership and accomplishment in that.

Well, I talked it over with my SO and she seemed to think that my new idea is better than my old one. I think that I'll make him a closet homosexual using Stacey as a beard and a womb. This means a new version of "What A MILF!", but part of me wants to re-write it, anyway. The ending I shall decide when the time cums, but at least that question is now resolved in my mind. Patrice is gay, not bi.

 

[ottohauser1977]

I think that I am very sorry for you that lit doesn't have a bisexual category.

We really need one, not for women, because EVERYONE knows that all women are bi (yuk) in erotica, but for the men. They really get left out. Mention a sexual relationship with a woman in GM, and your story wont get liked very much, mention a sexual relationship between two men in anywhere else and get trolled to within an inch of your life.

Good luck with the story, I have no ideas, but you certainly are brave for taking it in this direction, knowing the response you might get.

There really should be one, but the way Patrice behaves, I don't think that he's bi after all. He's just a repressed homosexual, using marriage and the "down-low" lifestyle to hide his true self. The issue is not the interest in men, but the disinterest in his wife sexually speaking. Ja, Patrice has issues.

 

[ottohauser1977]

So, I've decided it totally and will write Patrice consistently as a repressed homosexual dealing with the homophobia of the black community through the "down-low" lifestyle. No doubt some in that life are actually bi, but not all.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Now writing two versions, since I wanted to finish the old, but also wanted to explore a different direction.

 

[lovecraft68]

Maybe you can put the stories together and make one of those "multiple choice" stories.

At certain parts the reader can decide which path to take.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Maybe you can put the stories together and make one of those "multiple choice" stories.

At certain parts the reader can decide which path to take.

Interesting, but they actually diverge much earlier. One constant between them is that Patrice is actually gay, not bi. I tried to make him bi in the other version, and I just couldn't pull it off. It was laughable. Which means that he has to be gay in both worlds. The other details are where they diverge.

There are some parts that seem to contradict this new result in earlier chapters, but I will treat that as simply Patrice's adamant insistence on lying to himself, telling himself that he isn't gay. The clincher in this new chapter that I'm currently writing is that he is excited by the guys, but not the ladies. He can see a stark contrast between these hot women who should excite him (if he is at least bi) and the handsome men who really do.

So, after first convincing himself that he was straight and then that he was bi, Patrice owned up at last to being gay.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

A couple of years ago I put up a poll asking people where they would place themselves from 1=total het to 9=total gay. I personally am about a 2 but I'm sure that if I had had more same-sex experiences when I was young I could have been a 3 or a 4. It was not surprising how many responded with numbers well away from the ends. Sexual attraction is a continuum from totally to totally the other and most folks who are honest with themselves fall somewhere in between. All this is a lead up to my agreeing with my darling Stella. Yes, by gar, there should be a Bisexual Male category though I'd probably just make it Bisexual in general. Probably would end up rather a large category, methinks.

 

[Safe_Bet]

A couple of years ago I put up a poll asking people where they would place themselves from 1=total het to 9=total gay. I personally am about a 2 but I'm sure that if I had had more same-sex experiences when I was young I could have been a 3 or a 4. It was not surprising how many responded with numbers well away from the ends. Sexual attraction is a continuum from totally to totally the other and most folks who are honest with themselves fall somewhere in between. All this is a lead up to my agreeing with my darling Stella. Yes, by gar, there should be a Bisexual Male category though I'd probably just make it Bisexual in general. Probably would end up rather a large category, methinks.

And that would be doubly fine with many of us on the end because there is NOTHING worse than really getting into a good lesbian story and some asshat writes in some bi guy putting chocolate in our peanut butter.

I ain't got anything much against Reese's Peanutbutter Cups, but I get pissed when I "eat" one by mistake when what I want is pure Peanutbutter.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

And that would be doubly fine with many of us on the end because there is NOTHING worse than really getting into a good lesbian story and some asshat writes in some bi guy putting chocolate in our peanut butter.

I ain't got anything much against Reese's Peanutbutter Cups, but I get pissed when I "eat" one by mistake when what I want is pure Peanutbutter.

Understood.

 

[pierrelarue161]

And now we get the root of her complaint. But on this point, I agree. Just don't take it out on the bi guy writing the story. He has a lot of poor choices at present, I imagine. I'm dealing with this myself because I have a plot bunny or two for my first story that has Sapphic elements but isn't strict lesbian.

I've read Sev's lesbian stories and while I preferred the less D/s oriented one with the two lifelong girlfriends, I definitely felt that both of them belonged in a presently non-existent category: bisexual. Neither of them was a "lesbian" story in the strictest, purely homosexual sense. Susie, Deanna, and Summer were all too straight for that. Not sure about the Dean or the roommate. They could be real lesbians, but rather dark and edgy ones. I'm sure those exist in the community.

The watersports were a bit much for me, as was the pizza pie segment. You were in an agent provocateur stage at the time, weren't you, Sev? Just a hunch, though I'm sure the stories had their appeal to certain niches. Not knocking your stuff, but the Susie tales weren't your usual high quality (I've noticed that your most recent stories are often your best...though some older ones are not so bad, especially the one with the politicians fucking each other). When you're good, you're really good, but when you're bad, you're more or less mediocre (except Nicole's Needs, which frankly sucked).

But I digress. They were prime examples of why we need a bisexual category, on that I think we can all agree. Then people looking for pure lesbo stuff can avoid bi women stuff and vice versa.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

And now we get the root of her complaint. But on this point, I agree. Just don't take it out on the bi guy writing the story. He has a lot of poor choices at present, I imagine. I'm dealing with this myself because I have a plot bunny or two for my first story that has Sapphic elements but isn't strict lesbian.

I've read Sev's lesbian stories and while I preferred the less D/s oriented one with the two lifelong girlfriends, I definitely felt that both of them belonged in a presently non-existent category: bisexual. Neither of them was a "lesbian" story in the strictest, purely homosexual sense. Susie, Deanna, and Summer were all too straight for that. Not sure about the Dean or the roommate. They could be real lesbians, but rather dark and edgy ones. I'm sure those exist in the community.

The watersports were a bit much for me, as was the pizza pie segment. You were in an agent provocateur stage at the time, weren't you, Sev? Just a hunch, though I'm sure the stories had their appeal to certain niches. Not knocking your stuff, but the Susie tales weren't your usual high quality (I've noticed that your most recent stories are often your best...though some older ones are not so bad, especially the one with the politicians fucking each other). When you're good, you're really good, but when you're bad, you're more or less mediocre (except Nicole's Needs, which frankly sucked).

But I digress. They were prime examples of why we need a bisexual category, on that I think we can all agree. Then people looking for pure lesbo stuff can avoid bi women stuff and vice versa.

Yes, we need such a category and I agree that "Nicole's Needs" needs serious revision. I can see where you might not like "Susie's Freshman Year" as much. I have thought of revising it, but I ended up just finishing the damn thing. I will probably submit the last chapter here soon, and I think that the quality of it is better than the previous chapters. I like the way that I ended it.

But I can see where the kinkiness got a little weird in some places. A bit of a squick for a lot of people. I was in more of an experimental phase, Pierre, at the time that I wrote the first chapter. Including the watersports (which pops up on occasion, but not as a regular thing, mostly as a symbolic act of dominance and aggression). I wrote it out of "Melissa", btw.

I'm glad that you enjoyed "Deanna and Summer", as well as what I can only assume was "House Perks". I loved making two girlfriends become girlfriends in another meaning of the term and I really liked the idea of an affair between a Republican and a Democrat (especially a sexy and feisty Latina). I had fun with those. Might write a sequel to the latter and I keep meaning to write one to the other, but haven't had the inspiration for it in a while. Guess I should buckle down and try. Has to do with Summer's ex-boyfriend Brent, as I recall.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you're going to write watersports, I think it's probably best to write them in a separate story, even if you use the same characters...

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

If you're going to write watersports, I think it's probably best to write them in a separate story, even if you use the same characters...

It was a momentary lapse in judgment. Or two. Or three.

Susie's story would have worked better without it and so would the Melissa one.

 

[ottohauser1977]

It was a momentary lapse in judgment. Or two. Or three.

Susie's story would have worked better without it and so would the Melissa one.

Watersports....not for me, but everyone has their own thing.

I think that Stella was right. Watersports and lesbian....not a good mix. But that's just me. It did kind of ruin the scene between Susie and the Dean for me.

 

[ottohauser1977]

And, of course, it got one-bombed. Now, I'll take legit criticism for it, but this kind of trolling is rapidly getting old.

 

[Stella_Omega]

lots of homophobic comments, huh?

 

[ottohauser1977]

lots of homophobic comments, huh?

Well, some, but the redux (separate from the next chapter) was posted in LW.

Chapter 4 is much more homophilic...and likely to be posted in Gay Male or Group Sex.

I chose to split it up into alternate pathways. One part is a redux, the other a continuation.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

And, of course, it got one-bombed. Now, I'll take legit criticism for it, but this kind of trolling is rapidly getting old.

suck it up.