Help. I think I'm becoming a grammar snob...

[beatrice_dreams]

That's three reasonably high-rated stories I've tried to read on Lit tonight. Each of them (among other things) had horrendous your/you're abuse. Not to mention switching tenses constantly. I'm not talking about the odd typo - that's to be expected and I hope others would forgive it in my writing too. I'm talking about repeat offenders.

Am I being too picky? Are you able to just forge on past it and still enjoy reading the story while the writer is actively trashing the English language?

[Just a sec while I go run this post through a spell checker...]

 

[Dual_Triode]

Homophone errors are some of the most difficult to catch during proof reading, especially if the author is doing their own copy editing. I may or may not catch them in other people's work, let alone in my own stories. These, along with an occasional spelling or punctuation error are not so bad.

Changing tense, point of view, and other structural errors can be very jarring and pull me out of the story. If they are blatant and persistent, I have to give up.

Are you being too picky? If the errors seriously detract from your enjoyment, then no. In my case, I use these instances to reinforce my own grammatical improvement efforts.

 

[Darkniciad]

Depends upon the story.

If I'm overly bothered, then the odds are that the story would have failed for me even if it was absolutely perfect.

Otherwise, yes, I'll bump when I hit something, but it's just a bump, and not a brick wall.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

for me, homophones are only a problem if they put a silly image in my head. For a long time, I accidentally wrote

'straight'
http://blindgossip.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/couple-kissing-13.jpg

As 'strait'
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...f_gibraltar.jpg/220px-Strait_of_gibraltar.jpg

and for the longest time, nobody noticed because nobody knew what a strait was. Some homophones I can handle, especially if the other meaning is a little more obscure, or if it isn't too silly of an image.

On the other hand, if somebody says 'I touched his bear cock'....
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/im...3a84f8d5eba1998dc4e8fa6_fullsize.jpg?44cb53da

 

[Darkniciad]

The only one that stops me cold, no matter how good the story is ( though I can usually get back to a good one after cringing for a while ) is waist/waste...

And it crops up way too often.

"I grabbed her waste..."

Eww! I didn't sign up for this!

 

[Dual_Triode]

Your whey two strait, light up a hare.

 

[Safe_Bet]

for me, homophones are only a problem if they put a silly image in my head. For a long time, I accidentally wrote

'straight'
http://blindgossip.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/couple-kissing-13.jpg

As 'strait'
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...f_gibraltar.jpg/220px-Strait_of_gibraltar.jpg

and for the longest time, nobody noticed because nobody knew what a strait was. Some homophones I can handle, especially if the other meaning is a little more obscure, or if it isn't too silly of an image.

On the other hand, if somebody says 'I touched his bear cock'....
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/im...3a84f8d5eba1998dc4e8fa6_fullsize.jpg?44cb53da

My personal favorite, and it's from a story that I read here on Lit, was where this chick told somebody, that she was having a dialog with over the phone, that she'd "love to meat her in person".

 

[lovecraft68]

Dark beat me to waste, that's one that can make you shake your head and I've seen it a few times.

I think that's word changing it to what it thinks you want, because I've caught it myself in my own stuff and know I didn't type that.

I've seen site instead of sight several times as well.

In general (maybe because I'm not so hot at grammar myself) grammar doesn't bother me enough to affect the story.

The exception is badly done dialogue. It aggravates me if I have to stop and try to figure out who is talking.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Dark beat me to waste, that's one that can make you shake your head and I've seen it a few times.

I think that's word changing it to what it thinks you want, because I've caught it myself in my own stuff and know I didn't type that.

I've seen site instead of sight several times as well.

In general (maybe because I'm not so hot at grammar myself) grammar doesn't bother me enough to affect the story.

The exception is badly done dialogue. It aggravates me if I have to stop and try to figure out who is talking.

I was reading a pretty well set-up story a few weeks ago. There was no dialogue in the first few paragraphs and I was getting excited.

Then they started talking and I got confused. I was beyond aggravated when I saw that the author hadn't used quotation marks at all. We were just supposed to try and figure out when they were talking by ourselves.

I stopped reading.

 

[estragon]

If an author cannot be bothered to re-read his/her story at least once before posting, why should I be bothered?

 

[sr71plt]

If an author cannot be bothered to re-read his/her story at least once before posting, why should I be bothered?

As a writer who also claims to edit, you should be aware that no one can edit themselves comprehensively. No matter how many times a story was reread, some basic mistakes won't be apparent to the one who wrote it, because the brain makes assumptions about what was written that wasn't actualy written--and it overrides what the eyes see. So, the "reread" (note, there's no hyphen in that word) "at least once" comment is, I think, sort of harsh and irrelevant (and lacks editorial experience).

 

[Neonurotic]

Yep, there's always perfectly written and beautiful erotic stories on an amateur writing on a porn board.

 

[PayDay]

I'm talking about repeat offenders.

Am I being too picky? Are you able to just forge on past it and still enjoy reading the story while the writer is actively trashing the English language?

Yes.

I am also guilty of trashing the English language, because I believe a dictionary is a record of language, not a rigid set of rules. Besides that, homophones help to clarify an idea if used correctly.

As in:

"She was laying on the beach." vs.
"She was lying on the beach."

It's all about connotation and intent. There are exceptions to the rules.

If an author cannot be bothered to re-read his/her story at least once before posting, why should I be bothered?

That makes you not the best editor.

As a writer who also claims to edit, you should be aware that no one can edit themselves comprehensively.

This. Some of us would use editors if they understood anything about art, or the fact that language can change, because it is not a static thing. You can even tell an editor you intend to play word games, and they will still suggest a correction to ruin intent.

Yes they do, because that is their job.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Grammatical and spelling errors in narrative bother me too. I compare it to traffic bumps on a highway. If there are too many of them, I stop reading.

 

[Handley_Page]

One trick is to read the story to someone.
If they get confused or puzzled, it's time to do the editing.


beatrice_dreams
"Help. I think I'm becoming a grammar snob...
That's three reasonably high-rated stories I've tried to read on Lit tonight. Each of them (among other things) had horrendous your/you're abuse. Not to mention switching tenses constantly. I'm not talking about the odd typo - that's to be expected and I hope others would forgive it in my writing too. I'm talking about repeat offenders.
"

And did you giver a low score and explain to the Author ?
I think I would.

 

[Bramblethorn]

On the other hand, if somebody says 'I touched his bear cock'....
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/im...3a84f8d5eba1998dc4e8fa6_fullsize.jpg?44cb53da

It's not quite a homophone, but my favourite spellcheck error would be the story I once read about someone being molested by a gang of buglers who broke into their house.

...and now I search, there are at least two different stories on Lit with that same error.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I was reading a pretty well set-up story a few weeks ago. There was no dialogue in the first few paragraphs and I was getting excited.

Then they started talking and I got confused. I was beyond aggravated when I saw that the author hadn't used quotation marks at all. We were just supposed to try and figure out when they were talking by ourselves.

I stopped reading.

Stay away from Cormac McCarthy.

 

[PennLady]

I don't see this as being a snob, I see this as deciding how you will spend a portion of your time. If you don't want to spend it on stories you find full of mistakes, that's fine. Don't feel guilty. I click off stories all the time for similar things. I realize not everyone can find an editor, and editing yourself is difficult, but still, I have to draw a line. Sometimes there will be something about a story that keeps me reading, but if I find something full of errors like incorrect words or changing tenses, or changing POVs, then I leave it.

Have to say -- love the "buglers" error.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't see this as being a snob, I see this as deciding how you will spend a portion of your time. If you don't want to spend it on stories you find full of mistakes, that's fine. Don't feel guilty. I click off stories all the time for similar things. I realize not everyone can find an editor, and editing yourself is difficult, but still, I have to draw a line. Sometimes there will be something about a story that keeps me reading, but if I find something full of errors like incorrect words or changing tenses, or changing POVs, then I leave it.

Have to say -- love the "buglers" error.

Editors are the worst offenders. Editors naturally assume they know whats what.

Many American words come with multiple spellings, BUNCOMBE-BUNKUM comes to mind. Or the plural of MATERIAL, materials-materiel. But MATERIEL has a restricted application, generally referring to a supply or quartermaster depot rather than the contents of a fabric store.

PANTY-WASTE is a blooper I saw recently.

 

[lovecraft68]

As a writer who also claims to edit, you should be aware that no one can edit themselves comprehensively. No matter how many times a story was reread, some basic mistakes won't be apparent to the one who wrote it, because the brain makes assumptions about what was written that wasn't actualy written--and it overrides what the eyes see. So, the "reread" (note, there's no hyphen in that word) "at least once" comment is, I think, sort of harsh and irrelevant (and lacks editorial experience).

I agree no one can self edit. If you wrote it then as you go through it your mind is not completely seeing the words and you start to skim "assuming" you knew what you were writing.

However, having agreed with your basic point, I think you;re just getting snippy with Estragon as usual.

I agree with what he said as well. Many writers here do not have editors because they are difficult to find so it becomes, do I wait for months to find one or do I give it a go best I can?

So for those without editors I agree it is a courtesy to the reader to give it a go through and fix what you can. There will still be errors, but a go through will eliminate things like the aforementioned "waste" and some common typos to make it an easier read.

But you have established many times with your attitude and remarks that you really don't care about the reader, that they should be honored to be reading your drivel so I am not surprised you don;t think anyone else should make the effort

 

[lovecraft68]

That makes you not the best editor.

I disagree with this statement, well at least here.

If an editor is getting paid to go through my work, than hell no am I going to go over it with a fine tooth comb, earn your money.

On the other hand the editors here are volunteer so I would consider it common courtesy to try to eliminate the basic things I can to make their job easier. They are after all doing me a favor and trying to make my story better on their dime.

Also if you don't go through your story again, how are you going to get any better? When I had an editor my goal was that each time they received a story from me they were doing less work and not fixing the same things over and over.

The only way to get better is practice and going over your work again can help with that.

 

[beatrice_dreams]

And did you giver a low score and explain to the Author ?
I think I would.

Each time I actually start to do just that, then think better of it. The reason for this is because two thoughts come to mind:

1. "This writer probably just does this for fun (as many do who moan on this forum when they are pulled up on spelling and grammar by a reader). Additionally, if they'd wanted it to be perfect they would have set their grammar checker to the 'on' position, and there's no certainly no point in me bursting their bubble (i.e. if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all).

2. "Why obtain for myself yet another 1-bomb stalker who gets some perverse pleasure from randomly voting down my stories?"

Constructive criticism is a thankless job. I ain't applying for the position. I just prefer to moan about it here instead

 

[lovecraft68]

Each time I actually start to do just that, then think better of it. The reason for this is because two thoughts come to mind:

1. "This writer probably just does this for fun (as many do who moan on this forum when they are pulled up on spelling and grammar by a reader). Additionally, if they'd wanted it to be perfect they would have set their grammar checker to the 'on' position, and there's no certainly no point in me bursting their bubble (i.e. if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all).

2. "Why obtain for myself yet another 1-bomb stalker who gets some perverse pleasure from randomly voting down my stories?"

Constructive criticism is a thankless job. I ain't applying for the position. I just prefer to moan about it here instead

Both good points.

I'll add a third. When I start to feel that a story was bad enough to compel me to blast it, I stop and ask myself this question.

"What if this is the best this person can do?"

What if they are proud of it and happy to have something "published" who the hell am I to crush them like that?

So I move on, of course there are plenty of anymouses who don't hold back so I'm sure they'll hear it, I just don;t need to add to it.

I expect that from anon readers, but I have come to find out that the most mean spirited critics are here in this forum. The chosen few who post on the same site as the "hacks" yet somehow think they're better.

Whatever gets you through the day I guess.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Each time I actually start to do just that, then think better of it. The reason for this is because two thoughts come to mind:

1. "This writer probably just does this for fun (as many do who moan on this forum when they are pulled up on spelling and grammar by a reader). Additionally, if they'd wanted it to be perfect they would have set their grammar checker to the 'on' position, and there's no certainly no point in me bursting their bubble (i.e. if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all).

2. "Why obtain for myself yet another 1-bomb stalker who gets some perverse pleasure from randomly voting down my stories?"

Constructive criticism is a thankless job. I ain't applying for the position. I just prefer to moan about it here instead

Grammar checkers are pretty useless, even worse than spell checkers. At least the SC will catch some actual errors. The GC that I have had are always telling me I have errors, and they are almost always wrong. And, on those occasions when I do have errors, they don't catch them.

I always do my own editing. It's faster and I figure I can catch errors as well as anybody else, and sometimes I change wordings, which I would not trust an editor to do.

 

[THROBBS]

...I once read about someone being molested by a gang of buglers who broke into their house.
...

Blowing their (or should I say there?) own horns?

I am not the worst offender, but I am certainly one.
I am a dyslexic typist and too lazy on top of that. < A bad combo.

However I love the odd visuals or humor that are sometimes produced.

the buglers or bear cock.

They inspire drawings.

(this was one already on hand... I think "molesting buglers" requires a special one......... later)
http://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1125651&d=1334182268




I also love to abuse ellipses, because I know it bugs certain people. I use them as graphic "time intervals"