Wow! Petey, you were right! We don't spend enough on Education...

[mercury14]

What happens when you artificially increase the supply of any commodity?

You lower its value.

When you start handing out degrees you get an inflation in that field (you also get an inflation in grades since all students cannot make the grade). So, when you subsidize an artificial glut with cheap loans and easy admissions, then you get too many inferior people chasing too few jobs and no way to pay it back other than to endure the frustration of taking up work which they were not trained for and may even look down upon.

Or, they simply retreat back to academia and take on more debt.

With even fewer job prospects as they increasingly specialize in some niche...

Then you end up with a nation that won't do those jobs, so you import (or allow in illegal) immigrants and immediately begin educating their children as a "right."

As a liberal I hold up the ideal of social mobility as key to American society. And indeed liberalism and capitalism are one and the same on this matter. In a free, capitalist society each individual must be able to reach their full potential, unimpeded. Reaching one's full potential should not, and cannot be determined by the degree of wealth one was born into.

What AJ is suggesting is that American society be transformed into something else. His idea that only those with financial means have free access to higher education is not American, nor is it capitalistic. It's plutocratic.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I didn't mean anything, specifically.

I just know that 1984 was the year that I realized that the whole Democrat vs Republican thing was a total fiasco, that those organizations had already been bought and sold by the same people who pit Americans against each other every four years for no other reason than to give them a sense of accomplishment which will eventually turn to disappointment when nothing changes. That was the year I registered as a Libertarian.

I have not voted for a Democrat nor a Republican since that time, and by the gods I never will.

Ford & Chevy is how I see them.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

I wish people would stop telling Petey he is right. He is insufferable enough without validation.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

As a liberal I hold up the ideal of social mobility as key to American society. And indeed liberalism and capitalism are one and the same on this matter. In a free, capitalist society each individual must be able to reach their full potential, unimpeded. Reaching one's full potential should not, and cannot be determined by the degree of wealth one was born into.

What AJ is suggesting is that American society be transformed into something else. His idea that only those with financial means have free access to higher education is not American, nor is it capitalistic. It's plutocratic.

Wealth opens doors to the right people. Harvard is no better than Schlub College but one offers the right people to associate with. I got this from a Harvard grad who revealed that Harvard is fulla non-students who hangout and service the right people.

 

[mercury14]

Obama says it's an investment in the economy. Let's produce some more useless degrees that can't be sold in the marketplace.

Which degree can't be sold in the marketplace?

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Which degree can't be sold in the marketplace?

Liberal Arts....lol fucking worthless High School + degree.

 

[mercury14]

Wealth opens doors to the right people.

Wrong. Wealth opens the door for kids who were born into wealth that they did nothing to deserve.

Harvard is no better than Schlub College but one offers the right people to associate with. I got this from a Harvard grad who revealed that Harvard is fulla non-students who hangout and service the right people.

I don't care what you choose to believe about Harvard.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

What happens when that Trillion-dollar bubble bursts in the manner of the recent housing bubble or the dot.com bubble before?

Will we just simply waive those loans and raise taxes on the rich to make up the loss?

I don't understand the bubble burst reference. The $1T in loans are what they are.

What I am saying is if we have students needing $1T in loans it is pretty clear that we do not spend enough on education. The $500M in "research" should be spent on tuition.

WTF do taxes on the rich have to do with anything in this context. Education is a public good, like National Defense, police and fire, E-911 services, trash collection, etc. Education is a requirement of a healthy economy so we can grow the tax base and get away from this insipid argument over taxing the rich too much or too little.

 

[Byron In Exile]

I wish people would stop telling Petey he is right. He is insufferable enough without validation.

He's a problem.

But he's our problem.

We just have to find ways around these sorts of things.

Unfortunately, he's not going to magically disappear.

 

[mercury14]

Liberal Arts....lol fucking worthless High School + degree.

Wrong, people do a huge number of things with a liberal arts degree.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Which degree can't be sold in the marketplace?

Dance
Communications
English Lit
Religion
Art History

Lot's of them ...

 

[mercury14]

Dance
Communications
English Lit
Religion
Art History

Lot's of them ...

Why can't they be sold in the marketplace? What sort of evidence do you have?

 

[Byron In Exile]

Ford & Chevy is how I see them.

I was Chevrolet forever, but now... it seems Ford rules.

Here, that's not the case.

Once Kennedy was shot, and Johnson saw that first-hand, it's been clear who's been in charge. The fact they could do that, and then manage to cover it up, showed everyone what they were capable of.

 

[Byron In Exile]

As a liberal I hold up the ideal of social mobility as key to American society. And indeed liberalism and capitalism are one and the same on this matter. In a free, capitalist society each individual must be able to reach their full potential, unimpeded. Reaching one's full potential should not, and cannot be determined by the degree of wealth one was born into.

Well said.

What AJ is suggesting is that American society be transformed into something else. His idea that only those with financial means have free access to higher education is not American, nor is it capitalistic. It's plutocratic.

I don't think that's really possible anymore.

Almost everyone has access to the Internet, and libraries are open to everyone.

Anyone can find out anything they want to know about.

 

[Sean]

There are days when I just want to shoot people.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Wrong, people do a huge number of things with a liberal arts degree.

Yea...like go to grad school for something more useful.

I would bet a month's pay the kid with the engineering degree, get's a way fatter pay check way sooner than the kid with the BLA.

A fucking ASN-RN will get a better paying job sooner than a kid with a spanking new BLA.

 

[bluntforcemama]

You crusty old fucks are right! Keep slashing the schools! Take their money and build submarines!

What were we thinking preparing the youth of today to carry the country in the future?

Submarines are last century. These days, we build x-wing fighters.

 

[Byron In Exile]

There are days when I just want to shoot people.

Then perhaps it's well that you are not an American.

Because, in this country, we are allowed to own guns.

And most of us do have them.

 

[mercury14]

Well said.

Domo.

I don't think that's really possible anymore.

Almost everyone has access to the Internet, and libraries are open to everyone.

Anyone can find out anything they want to know about.

Not saying there's no value in internet/library learning time. But it's not the same as tertiary 'edumication.

 

[mercury14]

Yea...like go to grad school for something more useful.

Liberal arts folks can get a staggering array of jobs. You know all those jobs that say "college degree required"? Those.

They can manage a Macy's department store.

Or a restaurant.

Or do marketing or PR.

Or managing in either the public or private sectors.

They can be pharmaceutical reps or any kind of sales rep.

Or school administrators.

So many more things.

I would bet a month's pay the kid with the engineering degree, get's a way fatter pay check way sooner than the kid with the BLA.

A fucking ASN-RN will get a better paying job sooner than a kid with a spanking new BLA.

So? None of that changes the fact that having a liberal arts degree provides a wealth of opportunity.

Besides, when all the engineering jobs get shipped to India would you rather be sitting around with an engineering degree or a generalist degree that lets you apply for a heap of other jobs?

 

[Peregrinator]

Liberal Arts....lol fucking worthless High School + degree.

This is dumb.

 

[mercury14]

This is dumb.

An acquaintance of mine has a degree from an Evangelical Bible college with some kind of specialty in eradicating cults and evil spirits. He used it to get into the police academy and become a cop. Now he runs around the country giving trainings to law enforcement about cults.

There's no such thing as a useless degree.

 

[Adre]

Yea...like go to grad school for something more useful.

I would bet a month's pay the kid with the engineering degree, get's a way fatter pay check way sooner than the kid with the BLA.

A fucking ASN-RN will get a better paying job sooner than a kid with a spanking new BLA.

Obviously your degree allowed you to know everything about everything. My crappy BLA only let me retire in my early fifties.

 

[Byron In Exile]

This is dumb.

Pretty much out there.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Liberal arts folks can get a staggering array of jobs. You know all those jobs that say "college degree required"? Those.

OHHHHHH 15 bucks an hr here i come!~!!

They can manage a Macy's department store.

I'm willing to bet department store managers are all rocking MBA's or at least and under grad in biz management.

Or a restaurant.

Another business degree...

Or do marketing or PR.

Sociology/Communications/Marketing degrees, all of them.

Or managing in either the public or private sectors.

That's got MBA/biz management degree written all over it.

They can be pharmaceutical reps or any kind of sales rep.

Madre dose pharm sales.... business deg. as are all her co workers, some sales this might be possible. But you are still looking a shitty return on your dollar selling cars and or some other rough gig unless you are really good at selling, which has jack and squat to do with education and everything to do with talking to people.

Or school administrators.

MBA/Child development/ education degree's...

So many more things.

Really? Welcome to the 21's century man...The Business degree is the new BLA, FFS you have to have a good credit score to pick up trash. BLA's are the most worthless fucking degree's on the market right now....slightly over minimum wage is what an BLA is worth.

So? None of that changes the fact that having a liberal arts degree provides a wealth of opportunity.

Yes a wealth of opp. to go to grad school and specialize...it's the only way to go these days.

Besides, when all the engineering jobs get shipped to India would you rather be sitting around with an engineering degree or a generalist degree that lets you apply for a heap of other jobs?

Well if that were to happen it would suck for the engineers but a BLA won't help you much. Besides I'm a biologist...don't really give 2 squirts about the engineering job market.