Writing what you don't know?

[PennLady]

They say write what you know, but we don't know everything. One scene that's been giving me trouble in a story is a confrontation between the main character and her father. He doesn't approve of what she's doing with her life, and blames her for a decision her brother made that goes against what the father wants. He confronts her and they argue and I've gone back and forth on this scene with my beta reader.

My basic problem, silly as it may sound, is that I simply haven't "fought" much with people, and certainly not like this. My dad (thank God) is not like this dad.

So what kind of scenes or interactions between characters give you trouble?

 

[lovecraft68]

They say write what you know, but we don't know everything. One scene that's been giving me trouble in a story is a confrontation between the main character and her father. He doesn't approve of what she's doing with her life, and blames her for a decision her brother made that goes against what the father wants. He confronts her and they argue and I've gone back and forth on this scene with my beta reader.

My basic problem, silly as it may sound, is that I simply haven't "fought" much with people, and certainly not like this. My dad (thank God) is not like this dad.

So what kind of scenes or interactions between characters give you trouble?

Making love. Most of my sex scenes are either hardcore or BDSM style. At the end of my swb series I had the two characters who at that point have been having nothing but nasty sex between them for close to 2 decades, "Make love" to each other.

I did a scene like that in my current project as well and have struggled with it. Both were done from the female pov which made it even tougher.

I asked the other half for some insight into what goes through her mind during something like that.

Her response was that if I ever make love to her she'll let me know.

 

[nakdsub]

At least for me...

Writing is like acting...you put yourself inside your character. If you were a Dad, can you put yourself inside his head. Work yourself up, like a method actor. The more you talk it out the more your imagination is gets stirred up.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I have had sex eight times. Mostly missionary and cowgirl. I have never given oral sex (my first and only girlfriend wouldn't even let me try, so I don't know if I am even good at it or not). I don't remember how sex actually works from a first person perspective. I have no idea what it feels like anymore.

So pretty much everything that I write is something that I don't know.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have a friend who can write these sort of downtrodden characters who get the short end of the stick and don't question it, and they learn to stand up for themselves over the course of the story... I can't write that.

I didn't use to be able to write arguments but a few years ago I started using certain people from this forum as models. For reals!

 

[Cruel2BKind]

They say write what you know, but we don't know everything. One scene that's been giving me trouble in a story is a confrontation between the main character and her father. He doesn't approve of what she's doing with her life, and blames her for a decision her brother made that goes against what the father wants. He confronts her and they argue and I've gone back and forth on this scene with my beta reader.

My basic problem, silly as it may sound, is that I simply haven't "fought" much with people, and certainly not like this. My dad (thank God) is not like this dad.

So what kind of scenes or interactions between characters give you trouble?

I've had one of my characters fighting with his father a lot recently.

I just like to add in hints that shows that the father REALLY does care. A lot of time in fiction, the 'father-figure' is just a stogy old man that is angry for the sake of being angry. Add in touches about how upset he is, and it adds a fresh coat of realism.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Lotsa writers try and fake what they dont know, and faking it fools most readers. But you wont fool those who really know, and if the action isnt congruent with the characters personality you wont fool readers for long.

 

[lovecraft68]

Lotsa writers try and fake what they dont know, and faking it fools most readers. But you wont fool those who really know, and if the action isnt congruent with the characters personality you wont fool readers for long.

Somewhere in the middle of that, it made sense.

Falls under you can't bullshit a bullshitter.

 

[PennLady]

I didn't use to be able to write arguments but a few years ago I started using certain people from this forum as models. For reals!

Haha, good idea. Not sure those are quite the models I want.

I've had one of my characters fighting with his father a lot recently.

I just like to add in hints that shows that the father REALLY does care. A lot of time in fiction, the 'father-figure' is just a stogy old man that is angry for the sake of being angry. Add in touches about how upset he is, and it adds a fresh coat of realism.

Ah, well, see, the father at this point doesn't care. The way the story is, the father is a former athlete who never got his shot at the pros. He was, shall we say, disappointed when his first born was a girl. He channeled all of his efforts into his sons (two of them), and is disgusted and angry that his daughter had chosen to try to make a career in music. So he's pissed at her.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Haha, good idea. Not sure those are quite the models I want.



Ah, well, see, the father at this point doesn't care. The way the story is, the father is a former athlete who never got his shot at the pros. He was, shall we say, disappointed when his first born was a girl. He channeled all of his efforts into his sons (two of them), and is disgusted and angry that his daughter had chosen to try to make a career in music. So he's pissed at her.

I think a couple of the folks around here could be models for him.

 

[PennLady]

I think a couple of the folks around here could be models for him.

LOL Perhaps, but I guess I don't know them that well. And, as I said, thank heavens my dad isn't like that.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Haha, good idea. Not sure those are quite the models I want.



Ah, well, see, the father at this point doesn't care. The way the story is, the father is a former athlete who never got his shot at the pros. He was, shall we say, disappointed when his first born was a girl. He channeled all of his efforts into his sons (two of them), and is disgusted and angry that his daughter had chosen to try to make a career in music. So he's pissed at her.

oopsie-doodle.

I love that expression, there is something ridiculously fun about saying it out loud.

 

[XXplorher]

They say write what you know, but we don't know everything. One scene that's been giving me trouble in a story is a confrontation between the main character and her father. He doesn't approve of what she's doing with her life, and blames her for a decision her brother made that goes against what the father wants. He confronts her and they argue and I've gone back and forth on this scene with my beta reader.

My basic problem, silly as it may sound, is that I simply haven't "fought" much with people, and certainly not like this. My dad (thank God) is not like this dad.

So what kind of scenes or interactions between characters give you trouble?

More importantly...

Remember when I forgot?

 

[Tio_Narratore]

More importantly...

Remember when I forgot?

Yes, I do. It was just after that other thing may have happened. We were all amazed that you didn't remember it, particularly given how intense it could have been.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, I do. It was just after that other thing may have happened. We were all amazed that you didn't remember it, particularly given how intense it could have been.

But we did get it cleaned up before the tree trimmer arrived, as I remember.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

But we did get it cleaned up before the tree trimmer arrived, as I remember.

I believe so; I'm sure it needed an arboriodetox after that event.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I believe so; I'm sure it needed an arboriodetox after that event.

We were lucky there was enough of it left to treat!

 

[Tio_Narratore]

We were lucky there was enough of it left to treat!

Wow, Stella! I forgot all about that. Thanks for remembering: it'll help me count our blessings.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wow, Stella! I forgot all about that. Thanks for remembering: it'll help me count our blessings.

By the dozen

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Somewhere in the middle of that, it made sense.

Falls under you can't bullshit a bullshitter.

Lemme say it different. I watched a commercial last night. The commercials actress plays an engineer with white hard hat, clipboard, and safety goggles. But she walks like a model. The walk gave her away, and tossed the enchantment out the door.

Watch the old Billy Jack fight scenes, once you know a little about martial arts and real street fighting the movie action looks like what it is...choreographed dance!

And!

Stick with stereotypes unless the action fits your characters personality.

Plus!

I'm an authority on the subject of quarrels and feuds and payback, and generally pissing people off. Lemme know if you need pointers for staging conflicts.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I think what readers want is not so much reality, but the writer's version of reality. They want to see what your version of a father-daughter fight is like, and it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea of what goes on.

The main thing is what kind of relationship they already have, and what their characters are like? From what you say it seems like he would have been nursing this resentment over the son's actions for long enough to have a certain amount of bitterness toward her, so I'd expect that to come out. That means they wouldn't be direct and confrontational, or he would have vented when it first happened.


The scenes that tend to give me the most trouble are the after-sex scenes. Not because I've never been there, but because they're just so awkward. My characters tend to come together in a blaze of passion, and once that's spent the after-sex conversation can get kind of spotty and lame. They want to talk about anything except what's just happened.

 

[sr71plt]

The scenes that tend to give me the most trouble are the after-sex scenes. Not because I've never been there, but because they're just so awkward. My characters tend to come together in a blaze of passion, and once that's spent the after-sex conversation can get kind of spotty and lame. They want to talk about anything except what's just happened.

I like writing those scenes (well, parallel scenes. I don't do much incest). It's where it is awkward and "oh my god," yes, but it's also where their desires compell them to do it again.

 

[PennLady]

I think what readers want is not so much reality, but the writer's version of reality. They want to see what your version of a father-daughter fight is like, and it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea of what goes on.

Haha, I never fought with my dad. Nor did too many of my friends, over anything serious anyway. And my dad is so laid back it's hard to imagine him getting too worked up about much. Although I will say that when he does get angry, people tend to listen b/c it happens so rarely. That's only to say I don't have much first- or second-hand (or even third-) experience with father-daughter arguments. So it's hard to wing it.

And as my beta reader pointed out, men and women (I generalize! I generalize!) argue differently, so I was trying to get that tone as well.

The main thing is what kind of relationship they already have, and what their characters are like? From what you say it seems like he would have been nursing this resentment over the son's actions for long enough to have a certain amount of bitterness toward her, so I'd expect that to come out. That means they wouldn't be direct and confrontational, or he would have vented when it first happened.

They have a strained relationship, at best. As I said, he was disappointed at the outset when his firstborn was not a boy. He "salvaged" the situation (in his view, I guess) by giving her a mostly-male name (Ryan). He is all about sports, and little else, and he is one of those dads that many would perceive as having railroaded his sons into sports so that he can vicariously have the experiences he missed. So the resentment, if there is any, is directed at the daughter (Ryan). When he finds out the younger brother doesn't want to opt for the draft, he a) goes ballistic and b) blames her and is so pissed he goes out of his way to confront her. It's not immediate, but it doesn't simmer either.

 

[LucyH]

Making love. Most of my sex scenes are either hardcore or BDSM style. At the end of my swb series I had the two characters who at that point have been having nothing but nasty sex between them for close to 2 decades, "Make love" to each other.

Well, I have no trouble with characters "making love," provided they do it in kinky ways, but recently I've been asked to write some vanilla stories, and I find myself struggling with the sex because 80% of my impulses are stuff I'm not allowed to include. I stare at it for a bit, get frustrated, and go do something else.

 

[estragon]

SA Penn Lady, I think you did just fine, with a little help from your friends.